Sanderson Elimination: Questions & Answers and Game Meta Discussion

[A Joe in the Bush]

I Know. That's why I said that. Because of that Goal, I have a Reason to never stop Playing.

[Gamma Fiend]

I think everybody knows my stance on these Elimination games. The more the better.
But we might need a few more consistent, or a reliable number of random people per game to be able to successfully pull of reliably continuous games. It would be lame if somebody has what they deem a non-important role in one game but a time intensive role in another game, they may neglect the first game and even borderline being an inactive player. Of course that's only a possibility, but it is something that could happen with multiple players in multiple games at the same time.

I'm perfectly okay with games going one-at-a-time for now, but I am definitely open to the possibility for multiple games happening at the same time eventually, once we get enough players.

And that's when multiple GMs start working together and make an all-encompassing game that uses past players and themes from all the games that have already happened. An Elimination Cosmere, if you would.

[Claincy]

30 is doable (and it feels cool having so many players) but more than that is getting a bit too much for most games and there are definite advantages to smaller games as well.

 

@Gamma, that would be awesome. We'll need a few more games to be run first though.

[dyring]

I would ask for/suggest that another general rule is added.

 

That IC and OOC is kept apart.

 

Simply put, that one should never use anything ooc to affect how your character should be viewed. The obvious thing is to tell friends that you really are not a spiked(or whatever the role in the game is), and foster trust that way.

 

Use your character to convince others of your trustworthyness. And don´t tell others of your roles in ways as to remove doubt through other means, means unavaliable within the game.

Fooling someone ooc should be frowned upon imho, but that also means that one cannot write "OOC I am not the inquisitor, really, Im not. I promise" or some such.

 

I suck at explaining sometimes, but hope my point gets through :/

[A Joe in the Bush]

What do OOC and IC stand for?

For that matter, what does RAFO Stand for?

[Aonar]

OOC: Out Of Character

 

IC: In Character

 

RAFO: Read And Find Out (this one is a way of answering delicate questions about his books that Brandon "inherited" from Robert Jordan).

 

Edit: Huh. My 111th post happened at exactly 11:11. Neat.

Edited April 5, 2014 by AonarFaileas

[PorridgeBrick]

I would ask for/suggest that another general rule is added.

 

That IC and OOC is kept apart.

 

Simply put, that one should never use anything ooc to affect how your character should be viewed. The obvious thing is to tell friends that you really are not a spiked(or whatever the role in the game is), and foster trust that way.

 

Use your character to convince others of your trustworthyness. And don´t tell others of your roles in ways as to remove doubt through other means, means unavaliable within the game.

Fooling someone ooc should be frowned upon imho, but that also means that one cannot write "OOC I am not the inquisitor, really, Im not. I promise" or some such.

 

I suck at explaining sometimes, but hope my point gets through :/

Out of character doesn't mean out of game. Doing things out of character means you can talk about gameplay, mechanics, etc without having to incorporate it into your roleplay. Trying to make all that fit into roleplay believably is way too restrictive and time consuming. I really don't think anyone is going to trust OOC messages any more than IC, so there's really no reason that to think talking in OOC fosters trust or anything.

[dyring]

To me it does. Every rpg, and every live rpg iv been in iv ben ingrained with that ooc means factual, and no lies. In some of the larger rpg convents I been at, using ooc to argue for ic stuff meant getting taken off the game. So when someone writes something ooc every fiber of me screams to trust that.  

 

(and ofcoursem game mechanics are ooc, and its another matter. Its when its used to promote innocence for example, that it annoyes.)

 

*edit

 

And just to try to make sure there are no missunderstandings.

I do not mean that everything gotto be.. as if written by a Nalthis citizen. I would just like the avoid, well, one example would be

 

"OOC - And we´re m8´s porrige. You know Id tell you if I was spiked. Im a villager thug."

 

Thats the sort of things that I think should be disallowed. (albeit thatone is exagerated somewhat;)

Edited April 5, 2014 by dyring

[PorridgeBrick]

Well obviously that's not allowed. But that has nothing to do with the fact it says OOC next to it. That's just because it uses personal connections. If you somehow managed to work that into roleplay it would be just as bad. Saying

"OOC - I'm not Spiked"

is definitely rather stupid and pointless, but it's not like it'll really make a difference either way.

[Tempus]

I missed the deadline for the last RP by a day, but it seems like it can be a long wait. I was wondering if anyone would be interested if I ran a mini-game, in a faster format? I'm thinking something along the lines of one-day combined day/night format, 8-15 people, where it would then take no longer than a week (one lynch and one murder per day). Simplified roles, no OOC as I'd build the game rules into a premise.

 

I've got a couple ideas for premises that could be fun - a Jesker Mysteries premise, a Forger Premise (where you could make essence stamps change your forum display name and picture to make things super confusing =D), a Steel Inquisition premise, even a premise for Liar of Partinel which I probably wouldn't be allowed to run, haha.

 

If there are about three or four people who are interested in a short game like this, I'll set it up and run the first one, and then anyone else who wants to can run another with the same rules and a different premise if they like afterwards, at least while waiting for the longer RP game to start another round. 

 

If you're interested, say so in a post and feel free to state the kind of premise you'd like to have for the game, out of the above or another if there's something that tickles you.

[A Joe in the Bush]

You Have to Get Meta's Permission to do this. I don't thinkyou can just Highjack his Game like that. THough I like the Idea.

[Tempus]

Sorry, I wasn't aware that I was hijacking anything. Werewolf is a pretty popular forum and party game, I've run a number of games with my friends and didn't really think anything of it. I wasn't intending to supersede the main game. I shall send him a PM forthwith.

[Claincy]

Honestly I wouldn't say that this is "Meta's game" now. With all due respect to Meta for starting it here Meta got this started and has mod capabilities to keep things running smoothly and resolve problems but doesn't own the game here or anything That doesn't mean that running it past him is a bad idea though. We have already been discussing methods for engaging players who were killed early or missed out on the previous game. We were considering the possibility of having a second game start halfway through the first if there were enough people, and continuing in that manner though this might also be a good option.

 

There's my 2 clips anyway.

[Metacognition]

While it isn't required to get a hold of me for everything, I really appreciate it that people do so. We're still in the process of getting everything set up and I'd like to keep things orderly here so that new players can find all the information and such that they would need to be able to play without having to hunt around for it. Especially for something like this, which could conflict with the possibilities of staggering games, as we've discussed in the past. 

 

As I've told Tempus, considering those things aren't in place yet and I'm not some tyrannical overlord, we're working on getting his concept set up on a trial run. If people enjoy the format and we can make them run smoothly, they could easily fill the void as the larger, more in-depth games run. We'll see how they work and after that we can come back and decide whether we want to stagger games or stick with Tempus's concept or both. 

 

And this will always be my baby, Claincy. I might not have created the Werewolves game, but I brought it here and modified it and organized it and keep it from becoming a chaotic mess. Right now, it's still in its infancy and without some structure, it could start hanging with the wrong crowd and doing drugs, so to speak. If we don't have some form of core structure, then we very well could have multiple threads of questions and multiple games trying to start up at the same time and a hundred other things that would make navigating things a bit more unclear to newcomers. 

[Claincy]

While it isn't required to get a hold of me for everything, I really appreciate it that people do so. We're still in the process of getting everything set up and I'd like to keep things orderly here so that new players can find all the information and such that they would need to be able to play without having to hunt around for it. Especially for something like this, which could conflict with the possibilities of staggering games, as we've discussed in the past. 

 

As I've told Tempus, considering those things aren't in place yet and I'm not some tyrannical overlord, we're working on getting his concept set up on a trial run. If people enjoy the format and we can make them run smoothly, they could easily fill the void as the larger, more in-depth games run. We'll see how they work and after that we can come back and decide whether we want to stagger games or stick with Tempus's concept or both. 

 

And this will always be my baby, Claincy. I might not have created the Werewolves game, but I brought it here and modified it and organized it and keep it from becoming a chaotic mess. Right now, it's still in its infancy and without some structure, it could start hanging with the wrong crowd and doing drugs, so to speak. If we don't have some form of core structure, then we very well could have multiple threads of questions and multiple games trying to start up at the same time and a hundred other things that would make navigating things a bit more unclear to newcomers. 

Oh definitely I apologize if my intent with that post was misunderstood.

 

I merely felt that Joe was coming down a little hard on Tempus. I certainly think that people who want to run something like this here should be talking to you for keeping things organized and sorting things through and making sure things keep running smoothly. As well as for advice/discussion on how to run it. But Joe's post, to me, seemed to imply that you held the right to dictate everything Sanderson Werewolf related and arbitrarily veto or confirm anything that you liked/didn't like or that playing werewolves in a Sanderson setting was somehow exclusively owned by you.

 

That probably wasn't Joe's intent but his wording was rather aggressive (in my opinion anyway). "Hijack" has pretty negative connotations. I was trying to ameliorate that a little and looking back I can see this that was not clear in my wording.

 

Serious post means no silly white text, just this.

[bartbug]

Yeah; try and run things by Meta first.

 

By the way, Meta, how long do you think I have before I need to get my sign up sheet ready? Have you heard from Mat?

[Tempus]

We've cleared it all up, hammered out some general rules, and a 'Quick fix' format will be run midway through each main game. It will be lighter on role playing, have fewer special roles, and last no longer than a week. Meta will be posting the general rules in the first post here shortly.

In the meantime, what would everyone prefer for the first setting? I've got one in mind now for every in text world except Nalthis, so if there is something tickling your fancy let me know and we'll start there.

[Metacognition]

And the rules are up here. I've moved the GM list into the main post and the Quick Fix Rules are now the 2nd post of this thread. As with most things here, suggestions and possible modifications are welcome. Tempus, let me know if there's anything you'd like switched or changed around and I'll get it changed. Have fun!

[A Joe in the Bush]

I merely felt that Joe was coming down a little hard on Tempus...

 

That probably wasn't Joe's intent but his wording was rather aggressive (in my opinion anyway). "Hijack" has pretty negative connotations. I was trying to ameliorate that a little and looking back I can see this that was not clear in my wording.rious post means no silly white text, just this.

 

Hmm... Oh. Yeah I see what you mean. I just remember Rubix shutting this down, and didn't want to take another Risk. But now that Meta's Greenlit Tempus's Idea, I'd be glad to Sign up!

[little wilson]

Hmm... Oh. Yeah I see what you mean. I just remember Rubix shutting this down, and didn't want to take another Risk.

Rubix (or Josh, as I prefer to call him) is actually planning his own fast-paced game at the moment (based on Roshar). Or, he would be if he'd actually do something with it. He started on it, and it's awesome, but as far as I know he hasn't done anything with it for almost 2 weeks now. :/ And his game sounded crazy-awesome, too. I should pester him some more about it....

[A Joe in the Bush]

In the meantime, what would everyone prefer for the first setting? I've got one in mind now for every in text world except Nalthis, so if there is something tickling your fancy let me know and we'll start there.

 

We've done Mistborn and Warbreaker. There are a lot of WoK and WoR games in the Work. How about Elantris?

[Rubix]

Hey guys, I just wanted to poke my head in and say a couple quick things.

 

First and foremost, thank you so much to those who have been running games! They seem like they've been a lot of fun, and it's always good to have fun things to participate in on a site like this. Second, I've heard some feedback on the games that have been, and I've definitely heard your feedback. I'm currently working on finding ways that we can implement your suggestions going forward, but it's still a work in progress, which brings us to number three. I want your feedback. In fact, I'd actually say I need it. If there was something that happened in a game that you hated, I want to hear about it! Same with things that you loved!

 

All feedback is welcomed and appreciated, so that we can continue to do these games, and make them even more awesome in the future. Just go ahead and leave a comment below, or, if you'd prefer, feel free to send your feedback to me via PM. I'll definitely be considering all the feedback, and we'll make any needed adjustments as we go along.

 

Thanks guys!

 

P.S. As some of you may have heard, I've been working on a game of my own, and I think it's going to be a blast. I'll be running it concurrently with the other games, but I think you'll really enjoy it! Look forward to it towards the beginning of next month!

[Claincy]

I do have some comments/feedback to mention. First I would just like to reiterate that all of us Narrators are always willing to hear any complaints/feedback/criticisms or ideas you guys have.

 

The biggest thing I want to talk about is timing and the length of cycles as this is very important. This has been discussed numerous times before and Meta sent a pm to us Narrators indicating the possibility was under discussion regarding their length and if they should be shorter. I am posting this publicly rather than in a pm so that any other narrator or future narrator who disagrees with something I say here can call me out on it (Or agree. Either way.)

 

We settled on the current length of 48 hours for two primary reasons; to give people enough time to discuss and so our Narrators don't go insane.

 

We had shorter cycles in the first couple of games with the option for players to request an extension. By shortly into the second game an extension was requested essentially every single day cycle. Many people can only get on a couple of times in a 24 hour period and a 48 hour cycle gives everyone time to jump on and post multiple times which is absolutely vital to getting the good discussion and debate that is the lifeblood of the game happening. With shorter cycles people are often absent for most of a day cycle, only having time to post once or twice and as a result they frequently wouldn't get a chance to respond to other players questions and accusations. Furthermore this inability to reasonably argue there case would result in more people being lynched for silly reasons and in ways they thought were unfair which would lead to an increase in ill-will and increase the likelihood of a situation like what happened in the first game.

 

Reducing the length of night cycles is a bit more feasible in this sense as generally less is happening. It would not work well for my current game though as the 12 hours on the end for the returned to decide to save someone is absolutely vital and there would need to be an absolute minimum of 24 hours before that for people to get in their night actions. A lot happens during the night cycles, but most of it is, by necessity, done through private messages rather than the main threads.

 

Now to talk about this from the side of the narrators.

Ignoring the time spent reading the posts people have made it takes the narrators a solid 2-3 hours work per cycle to make sure everything runs smoothly and on time. This is longer in more complicated games like the Nalthis Elimination and many of the planned future games. With other real life commitments be they work, uni, school or other commitments narrators simply cannot afford to spend 3 hours every day on the games, which is what would be required for a 24 hour cycle. We love narrating this, it is a lot of fun. But we do have other things demanding our time and we simply cannot afford to take an 8th of every day to work on it. We would have to entirely remove the roleplaying which is one of the bigger draws to many of the players, and we could not run any of the more interesting and complicated games like Nalthis Elimination.

 

It is also worth noting that certain games need more time in the cycles than others. The Nalthis Elimination game requires the additional 12 hours for the returned to choose to save people and requires a longer night cycle in general due to every single player being able to take an action every night.

 

Reducing the length of the cycles would limit the types of games we could run and reduce the quality of those we do run.

 

If we have enough players then running multiple games where 1 starts halfway through the previous one could be possible and we have been discussing the possibility for a while now. This would also give those who were eliminated early in the first game something to do before it finishes. We have also recently been looking at the possibility of running smaller games concurrently with the larger ones and this could also work well.

 

Apologies that this got rather long, but it was too important to skim over.

 

I will be interested to see your game Rubix If I may, I would suggest posting the rules in "The Art of Creating Roles" to get some extra feedback and ideas on your rules before beginning. We have quite a number of clever players here who would have good ideas that could improve it. I know that my game benefited greatly from others feedback on the proposed rules.

Another serious post, so nothing funny to say in the white text.

 

Edit: Hey guys, I don't mind if you upvote or downvote my post (or Rubix's) but it would be really helpful if you posted and said why. Knowing that people agree or disagree is useful but it is far more useful to also know why. Especially when you disagree. Thanks (If you aren't comfortable posting it publicly for whatever reason just pm Rubix, Meta or I. Whoever is most relevant.)

Edited April 25, 2014 by lord Claincy Ffnord

[Mailliw73]

About the GM order, I probably won't be able to GM during the summer, as I'm not sure how much time I'll have in a solid two week block to focus on this. So if either GM before me wouldn't mind switching, that'd be great and I'd praise you forever. But if it, that's okay. I understand. I'll probably just let the others go until I have time to do it. Which might not be till September, if I don't get a chance in May.

[Herowannabe]

I would like to second everything Claincy just said. I haven't put my name into the Goblet of Fire Narrator pool (yet) solely for the reasons Claincy said. I just don't have that much free time. Even as a player just keeping up with reading all the posts can be a challenge some days. :\

To Rubix all I have to say is that I quite enjoy these games. Thanks to you and Meta and 17thshard for making this happen! I think the games have come along quite nicely and are head in a good direction.