Jondesu Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Yata said: The idea may be good, but I find hard to believe that 10 Surgebinders with unlimited Investiture at their disposal. May statisticaly died at every Desolation (the Last one with Taln as only victim was an exception not the norm)...The Surgebinding's Healing alone would be capable to stop a lot of wound of them. Neither, I will expect some futureshadow in the TWoTK's prologue from Kalak's PoV Taln being the only victim appeared to be rare, though maybe not unheard of, but considering the numbers and the fact that there may have been additional horrors and enemies we haven't seen yet, I don't think it's all that crazy that in most Desolations, half or more of the 10 Heralds, meant to be the only opposition to Odium's forces, would die. Remember, no matter how effective the healing is, completely crushing their skull and/or decapitating them would likely not be healable (per WoB, unless I'm misremembering). Thunderclasts would have plenty of strength to do that, and while it might be a lucky blow to manage it, there appears to be huge waves of Voidbringers and related enemies in the battles, based on the battlefield we see in the prelude alone. The Knights Radiant would have helped swing the battles much more into the Heralds favor, but I wouldn't be surprised if in the first Desolations before the Knights Radiant appeared (we don't know how long that was, but I have to assume there was at least one, if not more, before the Spren figured out how to copy the surges), most or all of the Heralds died in the process of fighting off Odium's forces, and that gradually improved as their methods and numbers swelled with each successive Desolation (most likely, perhaps with some exceptions when they came closer together). EDIT: Some relevant quotes that I think back up my thoughts (emphasis added by me): Quote “Even after all these centuries, seeing a thunderclast up close made Kalak shiver. The beast’s hand was as long as a man was tall. He’d been killed by hands like those before, and it hadn’t been pleasant.” Quote “But I survived, Kalak thought, hand to breast as he hastened to the meeting place. I actually survived this time.” Quote “You might call it a miracle. Only one of us died this time.” Quote “There were so many corpses, and among them walked the living. ” Admittedly, some of what I said is only speculation, but I don't think it's crazy for most of the Heralds to have been killed in each Desolation, considering what they were up against, even with the healing granted by Stormlight and/or Honor's direct source of Investiture. jW Edited October 2, 2016 by Jondesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbonator Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 I'm not sure if the Heralds have unlimited Stormlight. Perhaps than can draw Investiture from some exclusive source, but if they draw too much, they could potentially Ascend, which Tanavast probably wouldn't want (though that could fix the Shard, which would be convenient). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 5 hours ago, Yata said: The Surgebinding's Healing alone would be capable to stop a lot of wound of them. 3 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: If the Heralds could draw directly on Honor's Investiture, rather than using Stormlight from gems the way Radiants do - and could survive using amounts of it that would damage or vaporize normal humans - that would make a huge difference. I am aware that Szeth is a special case, but isn't Stormlight healing slow? While they could probably heal faster than the average Radiant, a killing blow should still be a killing blow when it comes to a direct hit from a Thunderclast/Chasmfiend claw since they don't wear Plate. After having read both of your posts fully, I have a counter idea: Brandon (or Sazed.. not sure) mentioned that Vin was so strong in Allomancy because she subconsciously drew in a little mist. Perhaps they still use gems at high efficiency, but can draw on a little extra in moments of need? It would make them a bit more balanced overall, and it helps deal with a point nobody has brought up yet to my knowledge: Shards not wanting to directly use portions of their power. Assuming Honor considers them like champions for the Desolations, he might be willing to spare a small portion of his power, letting it replenish during the centuries until the next Desolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 7 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: However, the Heralds might be so heavily Invested that Surges couldn't be used directly against them - they couldn't be Lashed to the sky or disintegrated/burned/whatever Division does. If they could also use the drawing on Honor's Investiture to get an extreme version of Stormlight's physical benefits, that would make it work, IMO. ^^^ this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 On 10/2/2016 at 3:34 AM, marianmi said: herald would be like vin burning mists, they get access directly to Honor, if i could ask BS something, i would be: if a person would be related to a herald (similar DNA), would they use *less* stormlight using a honorblade than a random person (very dissimilar DNA)? I know it's a bit of a necro, but there is an answer to your theory. Investiture from Honor. Quote [04:22] Q: The Heralds, back before Honor died, were they directly powered by Honor? A: Yes. You’ll find out more about that, but the Shardblades (pretty sure he means Honorblades here) were pieces of Honor’s soul that he gave them and direct access to his essence. Q: Like Vin and Elend? A: Yeah, a little like that. That’s why Honorblades don’t work like Shardblades do, like Radiants do. I feel that there was something about Honorblade Efficiency recently, but I cannot find it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondesu Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said: I know it's a bit of a necro, but there is an answer to your theory. Investiture from Honor. I feel that there was something about Honorblade Efficiency recently, but I cannot find it That is interesting (I'd seen it before but the wording is clever). It's worth noting that spren are pieces of Honor, and depending on how you interpret other statements and Cosmere bits of knowledge, you could say that they are part of his soul (the "mind" or Cognitive Aspect is what passes on to the Beyond when a human dies, so it could be seen as their "soul", but even if not, they are part of what is left, so I'd still say spren could be said to be parts of Honor's soul, just not willingly given the power he gave to the Honorblades and the Heralds). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 I gather from this that the Heralds did not require Stormlight to fuel their powers, they drew in Honor's power directly, and the reason Szeth required Stormlight was because Honor is splintered and that direct access no longer is available. I think also that while Nale has his Honorblade he also would require Stormlight to use it now, hence this WoB. Quote QUESTION Is Nalan using his original Honorblade or did he bond a spren? BRANDON SANDERSON He's using his original Honorblade. But there's an asterisk here that will come up in Oathbringer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Extesian said: I gather from this that the Heralds did not require Stormlight to fuel their powers, they drew in Honor's power directly, and the reason Szeth required Stormlight was because Honor is splintered and that direct access no longer is available. I think also that while Nale has his Honorblade he also would require Stormlight to use it now, hence this WoB. There's a recent WoB which states that the Honorblades granted the Heralds direct access to Honor's power. I'm guessing that with the weakening of the Oathpact and the splintering of Honor, that conduit has been sundered in part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 back to the original topic though, I would tend to agree that being so heavily invested would disrupt not only the surges, but probably also shardblades. It's completely possible that the heralds would be even more invested than Hoid if they chose to draw on their power, and Hoid has said he would be surprised if Jasnah could hurt him with her shardblade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 6 hours ago, Darkness said: back to the original topic though, I would tend to agree that being so heavily invested would disrupt not only the surges, but probably also shardblades. It's completely possible that the heralds would be even more invested than Hoid if they chose to draw on their power, and Hoid has said he would be surprised if Jasnah could hurt him with her shardblade. Hoid wasn't afraid because he has regeneration powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Ie not convinced that was the only reason, but I see why you would think that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 4 hours ago, Darkness said: Ie not convinced that was the only reason, but I see why you would think that. Consider the amount of investiture required to make someone able to prevent a shardblade from cutting them, and consider the fact that a human body holding a significant amount of investiture exhibits signs as the investiture leaks from the body due to body being a poor vessel It seems likely then that Hoid doesn't hold enough investiture to block a shardblade directly as he exhibits none of these signs. Furthermore, it has been implied in a WoB that Hoid's soul can be cut by a shardblade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 On 2/22/2017 at 8:17 PM, The One Who Connects said: I feel that there was something about Honorblade Efficiency recently, but I cannot find it On 10/2/2016 at 9:43 PM, marianmi said: if i could ask BS something, i would be: if a person would be related to a herald (similar DNA), would they use *less* stormlight using a honorblade than a random person (very dissimilar DNA)? I found it. The answer to your question, which inevitably leads to more questions... Quote [–]18th_Shard 5 points 1 year ago Thank you so much for writing such awesome books. I can honestly say that all of your books are some of my favorites. What is one Epic power you wished was in one of the Reckoners books but isn't? Does a Herald using an Honorblade consume the same "dangerous" amounts of Stormlight? 4 Hemalurgic spikes steal Allomancy, 4 steal Feruchemy, and 4 more steal Human traits. Do the other four a) steal a trait every normal human has, steal something only some humans have, or c) steal something no human has? [–]mistborn[S] 9 points 1 year ago I there had been one, I'd have put it in. Honorblades are less efficient; this doesn't change when a Herald uses them. (But they have other advantages.) RAFO. Relevant passage in bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted February 25, 2017 Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 2 hours ago, The One Who Connects said: I found it. The answer to your question, which inevitably leads to more questions... Relevant passage in bold. Interesting. This does feel like it supports my sentiment that the honorblades grant surgebinding through a hack of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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