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Real-world values of spheres?


Shumei

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This is my first post here, though I've been lurking for a while. 

 

I couldn't find an obvious answer to this question on the wiki, etc., so I thought I would pose it here:

 

Does anyone know (or has anyone asked Brandon or Peter) how large the gem inside of each denomination of sphere is?  I. e., how many carats to a broam, how many carats to a mark, how many carats to a chip?  Do these values vary between the different gems? Are the sizes fixed exactly, or do they vary within a set range for each level of value?

 

I don't expect that anyone has answers to these questions yet, but I thought I would pose them for future consideration.

 

 

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No idea on the karats, but I'm pretty sure that gems are much more common, and thus much cheaper, than in the real world. for example, I wouldn't be surprised if a diamond chip (the smaller coin) contained  one karat worth of diamond. which in the real world would be worth a few tens to a few hundreds euros depending on quality and cut. In fact, a chip can hardly contain less than one karat (roughly 0.2 grams); a smaller peice would be difficult to see and to handle.

 

As for an equivalent value, the way they are used make me think that a diamond chip would be worth 2 to 5 euros at purchasing power parity.

 

EDIT: the majority of you americans can easily change "euros" with "dollars" and be fine with it. those estimates are approximate enough that the exchange difference between euro and dollar isn't a big deal

Edited by king of nowhere
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I am pretty sure they have never been asked, but it's entirely possible that Brandon has all those things worked out - he did say he spent a lot of time researching gems. Maybe we can abuse the fact that Peter lurks around here and get some info out of him? Either that, or somebody could ask at a signing, which will likely lead to PAFO anyway (if the information exists).

 

So, Peter, might as well save Brandon some trouble and give us the goods :P

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It would have to be based on carat almost exclusively.  The actual value of a gem IRL is strongly affected by cut and clarity.  As to the overall size, it should be remembered that spheres are roughly the size of a thumbnail, so even in a broam, the gemstone will not be particularly large.

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I am pretty sure they have never been asked, but it's entirely possible that Brandon has all those things worked out - he did say he spent a lot of time researching gems. Maybe we can abuse the fact that Peter lurks around here and get some info out of him? Either that, or somebody could ask at a signing, which will likely lead to PAFO anyway (if the information exists).

 

So, Peter, might as well save Brandon some trouble and give us the goods :P

 

Good idea. let's pile some wood and do smoke signs to catch his attention =)

 

I also heard that if you speak his family name backward five times he will be automatic summoned ;)

 

Side question, Who they fix the gem in the middle(precisely) of the glass, I always had trouble to imagine how would look like a sphere in real life (if someone have a picture or ilustration plx drop here)

 

On diamond carat are a veryyyy tiny thing, I know that it's a "magic" diamond but to be able to see a diamond inside a glass sphere I always believed that you would need at least a few carats worthly gem, after all they have head sized gems there =)

Edited by Natans
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I don't think it's possible to answer such a question. The spheres will be useless here since we have no stormlight for them to hold. Also, spheres are very common on Roshar which means diamonds there must be cheap. It's impossible to measure how common they are and then compare them to something as common on Earth. Even if we know how many karats a sphere is worth, doesn't mean it's as valuable as the same karat gem here.

 

It's possible to measure the value in a more accurate way: what can someone buy with a broam on Roshar for example. This is not the same as saying how many dollars a broam is worth, because our world are very different, just remember how Jasnah hadn't seen a strawberry jam. So strawberries are much more rear than diamonds on Roshar, therefor more valuable than in our world. 

 

We can sell them strawberries for diamonds  :lol:

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Side question, Who they fix the gem in the middle(precisely) of the glass, I always had trouble to imagine how would look like a sphere in real life (if someone have a picture or ilustration plx drop here)

 

The only description I can think of comes from one of Shallan's earlier chapters:

 

Before this trip, she’d never used money; she’d just admired the spheres for their beauty. Each one was composed of a glass bead a little larger than a person’s thumbnail with a much smaller gemstone set at the center. The gemstones could absorb Stormlight, and that made the spheres glow.

 

I am almost certain there was a part somewhere (maybe in another one of her chapters?) that explain how each sphere had was flattened a little on one of the "sides" so they don't roll when you put them on a table... but I can't find this passage.

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Kaladin narrowed his eyes as the apothecary fished two marks out of his money pouch, setting them on the table. Like many spheres, these were flattened slightly on one side to keep them from rolling away.

Chapter 27.  I guess not all of them are flattened on a side, since it only says "many".

 

On the main topic, I think it would be impossible to know without knowing the exact size, color, cut, and clarity of the gems, which may be either fairly uniform, or highly variable.  We're told the purchasing power is about 1 diamond chip for a loaf of bread.

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I think it's expecting too much to relate the value of spheres to real-world gemstones. As has been mentioned, gems seem far, far more prevalent on Roshar; this is likely because they're a renewable resource, since the various greatshells all grow them inside as gemhearts. For another thing, we know the relative value of 5 of the ten gemstones, and those values are nothing like they would be on earth. 

 

1 emerald = 2 sapphires = 5 rubies = 10 garnets = 50 diamonds. 

 

I think Peter has posted somewhere that the other 5 stones are also used for currency, and have value equal to the numbers above, but we just don't know which one goes where.

 

The gems on Jasnah's soulcaster are described as thumbnail-sized as well, and even though they're described as very valuable, gems that size would be nearly unique on earth. For comparison, we know Elhokar pulled an emerald the size of his head out of the chasmfiend, while in reality, you could easily hold the Hope Diamond in the palm of your hand.

Edited by 11thorderknight
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Well are we measuring the gem value, or its appliances from it absorbing Stormlight?  If it's value, I am guessing that diamonds will probably worth the most, and for its Stormlight uses well this is our Earth we are talking about.  If we are that rich using diamonds and emeralds for lighting we probably have a currency based on chocolate just for the thrills!

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We are told the relative values of chips, marks and broams: 1 broam = 4 marks; 1 mark = 5 chips; therefore, 1 broam = 20 chips. This is for spheres of the same gemstone, obviously. Add in the difference between gemstones, and you get the extremes of 1 emerald broam = 1000 diamond chips. Which is actually a pretty big spread for currency. We're told in WoK that a firemark is a week's wages for a sailor, which means that a firechip is one day's wages (Rosharan week has 5 days). A ruby is worth 10 diamonds, so a firechip = 10 clearchips. That means that a sailor, which is probably a reasonably-paid working class job on Roshar, gets 10 clearchips a day. Now, I assume they also get room and board on the ship, but still, that puts a lower limit on what a clearchip can reasonably buy (i.e. it can't be worth our equivalent of a penny, or even a dollar, just because it's the lowest denomination of currency).

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We are told the relative values of chips, marks and broams: 1 broam = 4 marks; 1 mark = 5 chips; therefore, 1 broam = 20 chips. This is for spheres of the same gemstone, obviously. Add in the difference between gemstones, and you get the extremes of 1 emerald broam = 1000 diamond chips. Which is actually a pretty big spread for currency. We're told in WoK that a firemark is a week's wages for a sailor, which means that a firechip is one day's wages (Rosharan week has 5 days). A ruby is worth 10 diamonds, so a firechip = 10 clearchips. That means that a sailor, which is probably a reasonably-paid working class job on Roshar, gets 10 clearchips a day. Now, I assume they also get room and board on the ship, but still, that puts a lower limit on what a clearchip can reasonably buy (i.e. it can't be worth our equivalent of a penny, or even a dollar, just because it's the lowest denomination of currency).

 

 In some point was said that 1 clearchip are enough to buy a bread loaf.

 

Google are our friend (and I think better use U$ to compare this) and it says:

 

How much a loaf of bread costs depends on where you live and the type of bread you choose. A store brand can cost 1.99 to 2.49. A premium brand could cost 3.99 or more per loaf. If 

 

Let say that the production cost and everthing else are similar so a clear chipwould be U$2.00/4.00

 

A emerald broam U$2000 to U$4000.

 

My guess U$3000

Edited by Natans
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Another fly in the ointment is that I don't recall seeing much in the way of gemstones being used as jewelry.  This is the chief reason why gemstones are of such value IRL.

 

There are a couple points where gemstones as jewelry are mentioned. 

 

From the WoK prologue:

Their pure black hair was pinned up atop their heads, either in intricate weavings of braids or in loose piles.  It was often woven with gold ribbons or ornaments, along with gems that glowed with Stormlight.

 

From WoK Chapter 22:

The gems in her [Navani] hair--which was streaked with a few lines of grey--were red as well.

 

From WoK Chapter 54:

A faintly glowing ruby sat on each of his [Highprince Hatham's] fingers...

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 In some point was said that 1 clearchip are enough to buy a bread loaf.

 

Google are our friend (and I think better use U$ to compare this) and it says:

 

How much a loaf of bread costs depends on where you live and the type of bread you choose. A store brand can cost 1.99 to 2.49. A premium brand could cost 3.99 or more per loaf. If 

 

Let say that the production cost and everthing else are similar so a clear chipwould be U$2.00/4.00

 

A emerald broam U$2000 to U$4000.

 

My guess U$3000

 

I remember that quote as well. Remember, though, when Shallan went to buy books, she spent a bunch of emerald broams on them; that's like, at least 10,000 dollars equivalent. For books. Now, it's true that they probably don't have printing technology so the books are all hand-copied. But still. Also, for someone who's supposed to be broke, that's a lot of cash to carry around.

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I remember that quote as well. Remember, though, when Shallan went to buy books, she spent a bunch of emerald broams on them; that's like, at least 10,000 dollars equivalent. For books. Now, it's true that they probably don't have printing technology so the books are all hand-copied. But still. Also, for someone who's supposed to be broke, that's a lot of cash to carry around.

 

Of note is that bread almost surely costs a different amount to make in Roshar. Efficient farming has brought the price down for us in modern times.

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Of note is that bread almost surely costs a different amount to make in Roshar. Efficient farming has brought the price down for us in modern times.

It probably would be better to compare the price of Rosharan bread to the price of bread before the industrial revolution. that technology level would probably match Roshar better anyway. maybe compare the cost of hand-written books back then too for a better baseline for emerald broams.

 

So, who has studied pre-modern economy?

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The relative values of various commodities is likely to be so different from modern times to pre-modern times that it will be very challenging to ascribe any kind of meaningful value comparison.  And that is without taking into account the relative differences in scarcity and demand of these commodities between Earth and Roshar.

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The relative values of various commodities is likely to be so different from modern times to pre-modern times that it will be very challenging to ascribe any kind of meaningful value comparison.  And that is without taking into account the relative differences in scarcity and demand of these commodities between Earth and Roshar.

 

Agree. But bread are the kind of thing that are bound to have less flutuation given the fact that this is one of the most basic human needs.

 

One must earn enough to buy his food at least. So of all things that we could compare (Bread, medical supply(Kaladin) and books(Shallan)) that is the best one. But even so that is no more than an educate guess, because for sure Roshar bread and our own must cost different =)

 

PS: End of the side discussion ;)

Edited by Natans
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