Reading Excuses - 8.15.16 Heir - Ch 12 Heir - Spieles - (light S, V)

[spieles]

In this chapter Oz, being a good friend, accompanies Pascal to Bride tryouts.

@kaisa, this is completely revised from what you read. 

Definitely some violence here.

Anyway, let me know what you like, what bores you, what confuses you, and what makes you roll your eyes with disbelief. Beta data!

Edited August 15, 2016 by spieles

[kais]

I did NOT space this week, and did the LBLs. Just sent them to you via e-mail.

In general, I liked this, but I think it still needs some kick. I kept waiting for a twist with rex they were fighting, and was disappointed when it was very cut and dry fight scenes (although Pascal enjoying herself a little too much was fun). I like the Oz/Hayden tension a lot, and see the love triangle much more clearly in this new version. Still missing the Oz fighting his foster father thing. I think this chapter could use one extra oomph - a twist in the rex they let fight, someone gets hurt who is a named character, etc. It’s almost there, just needs a nudge.

 

[Mandamon]

23 hours ago, kaisa said:

In general, I liked this, but I think it still needs some kick. I kept waiting for a twist with rex they were fighting, and was disappointed when it was very cut and dry fight scenes

 

Yep-this.  I was going to write up something along these lines, but kaisa pretty much summed it up.  The chapter is good, but it's not yet great.

 

Notes while reading:

There are a lot of adjectives on the first page

pg 4: " am hiding in the mezzanine’s corner, elbows on the rail with my face buried in my hands "
--weird jump here.  Suddenly Hayden's there?  I didn't get a sense of where Oz was heading before the break.

pg 4: "they drug them with an Amanita imitator"
--ok, explains the difference in behavior, but it seems a little hand-wavy that their first episode is psychotic, and then they're coldly rational.

pg 5: "Walter Turner killed my father."
--I'm not getting the emotional connection here that I should, either because of several versions, or WRS, or something.  I did't really remember that Hayden's father killed Oz's father.

pg 6: "I don’t know why the Rex take the lungs, though I can guess it’s for some research"
--interesting.

pg 6: "they’ll find a way to create female Rex. No one wants that"
--well, except for the Rex and whatever percentage of the population they now represent...

[Hobbit]

Hello spieles,

Since I haven't read any of the previous chapters, I recognize I have a skewed perspective reading this one.  But hopefully my comments will still be useful.

I really enjoyed reading this.  Most of my enjoyment came from finding your world very interesting, and being really curious about all the things I didn't know!  Why doesn't Oz need a mask?  What's up with the Rex - are they men that go "bad" or are they a different species, and why would they be disgusted by human smell?  Are these women really competing to be someone's bride, or is that just a name?  I'm sure lots of this was explained earlier in the story, but it was actually really fun to read and have all that be a mystery.  Your prose and storytelling were solid and so I trusted you to give me interesting answers, if not in this chapter, then in the next.

I thought the characters were believable and interesting.  I liked the interactions between Oz and Pascal - they talk and act like good friends.

I also thought you use the first person present voice really well.  I've never read a story in first person present, but I didn't notice anything was different until I was a few paragraphs in.

Only one in-line suggestion: on pg 5 ("You don’t know what the Rex did to their families.” “True.”) I couldn't tell who was saying what.

[spieles]

On 8/15/2016 at 3:02 PM, kaisa said:

In general, I liked this, but I think it still needs some kick. I kept waiting for a twist with rex they were fighting, and was disappointed when it was very cut and dry fight scenes (although Pascal enjoying herself a little too much was fun). I like the Oz/Hayden tension a lot, and see the love triangle much more clearly in this new version. Still missing the Oz fighting his foster father thing. I think this chapter could use one extra oomph - a twist in the Rex they let fight, someone gets hurt who is a named character, etc. It’s almost there, just needs a nudge.

Yeah, the public fight scene with Calgary in previous drafts was so dramatic, but now that scene is moved to the quarantine clinic chapter that we just read, so this chapter is supposed to be more about Hayden's femme fatale machinations. It's definitely a setup chapter trying to accomplish multiple things at once, but perhaps it doesn't seem to be working that well...  Then again, we we amp like crazy again when Oz goes and visits the Rex, so hmph. 

I'm definitely keeping your suggestion about using a named character to fight the Rex in mind, though.

 

 

[spieles]

17 hours ago, Mandamon said:

There are a lot of adjectives on the first page Noted.

pg 4: " am hiding in the mezzanine’s corner, elbows on the rail with my face buried in my hands "
--weird jump here.  Suddenly Hayden's there?  I didn't get a sense of where Oz was heading before the break. Ah, I freaking hate blocking and it gets me in trouble. I'll try and be clearer.

pg 4: "they drug them with an Amanita imitator"
--ok, explains the difference in behavior, but it seems a little hand-wavy that their first episode is psychotic, and then they're coldly rational. Yeah, as the novel goes on this is all more developed but we're finding out about the Rex in disjointed chunks, and I think there's an element of it that's WRS because my first-page to last-page beta readers don't seem to have a problem with it, but I still think my execution is lacking. This scene is supposed to be a foil for a future scene I'm rewriting so I might wait until after I'm done with that to evaluate the explanation of the Rex through these pages.

pg 5: "Walter Turner killed my father."
--I'm not getting the emotional connection here that I should, either because of several versions, or WRS, or something.  I did't really remember that Hayden's father killed Oz's father. Yeah this is repeated twice - in chapters 5 and then in the chapter with the Board, but it still might need more build up in this scene with more interiority from Oz.

pg 6: "I don’t know why the Rex take the lungs, though I can guess it’s for some research"
--interesting.

pg 6: "they’ll find a way to create female Rex. No one wants that"
--well, except for the Rex and whatever percentage of the population they now represent... Very very true.

As always, thank you for reading.

 

[spieles]

17 hours ago, Hobbit said:

Hello spieles,

Since I haven't read any of the previous chapters, I recognize I have a skewed perspective reading this one.  But hopefully my comments will still be useful.

I really enjoyed reading this.  Most of my enjoyment came from finding your world very interesting, and being really curious about all the things I didn't know!  Why doesn't Oz need a mask?  What's up with the Rex - are they men that go "bad" or are they a different species, and why would they be disgusted by human smell?  Are these women really competing to be someone's bride, or is that just a name?  I'm sure lots of this was explained earlier in the story, but it was actually really fun to read and have all that be a mystery.  Your prose and storytelling were solid and so I trusted you to give me interesting answers, if not in this chapter, then in the next.

I thought the characters were believable and interesting.  I liked the interactions between Oz and Pascal - they talk and act like good friends.

I also thought you use the first person present voice really well.  I've never read a story in first person present, but I didn't notice anything was different until I was a few paragraphs in.

Only one in-line suggestion: on pg 5 ("You don’t know what the Rex did to their families.” “True.”) I couldn't tell who was saying what.

Fresh eyes are always wonderful! So thank you for taking the time. And yes, LOL, so many of your questions have been answered: the Rex are mutants, Oz is the product of genetic in vitro experiment, and the "Brides" are the elite female force that fights the Rex because unlike men they cannot be turned!

And I'm particularly glad you liked first person present. I've read it a handful of times, and have either enjoyed it or been meh on it, so I'm glad you're veering toward enjoying it.

Going to fix p. 5

[rdpulfer]

- The moment where Pascal learns about Oz and Hayden is will done.

- Kinda curious why Channing has to be there when Dion drops the bomb to Pascal. It seems weird that he's just . . . there.

- I like the way the stakes are slowly raising . . . the Rex have Eleanor, are trying to make female Rex, and Oz will meet Hayden's father. I'm really curious to see where this goes.

 

[spieles]

3 hours ago, rdpulfer said:

- The moment where Pascal learns about Oz and Hayden is well done. Thank you so much for reading.

- Kinda curious why Channing has to be there when Dion drops the bomb to Pascal. It seems weird that he's just . . . there. Uh, he's there because he was Hayden's boyfriend - and still was when she hooked up with Oz - so Dion is really going for maximum effect in humiliating Oz (and in a way, Channing) in this event. Pascal would probably confront Oz and ask him what he was thinking if Channing wasn't there - instead she doesn't want to deepen Channing's anger or unhappiness in this moment and yet she also has to prep herself for her next tryouts, etc. And of course, Oz - who is not Mr. Social Grace - is woefully unprepared for any of this. Of course, I may not have made this all clear so I'm going to peek back over...

- I like the way the stakes are slowly raising . . . the Rex have Eleanor, are trying to make female Rex, and Oz will meet Hayden's father. I'm really curious to see where this goes. Yay. Yeah, things take off from here...

 

Edited August 17, 2016 by spieles

[neongrey]

Geez, I am just exhausted lately. Let's see here...

p.1

Nice start; gives a nice sense of the sort of place this is.

'she introduces herself' is redundant with that introductory line.

I'm not sure a wall is the sort of trap you can spring. More of an obstacle one encounters, really.

p.2

... even with it cracking, lol. (it is not the text I am loling at, lol)

'when she finishes' is again a lilbit redundant

uugh there's a particular family of possessive behaviour I do not like and I am seeing flashes of it it here and i am just gonna see where this goes for now

p.3

'scissoring a glare' is not really an idiom I know, or rather-- the only real way that I am familiar with 'to scissor' as a verb is as a specific sex act between vagina-havers. The previous time I encountered it I could sort of intuit that you meant moving in that direction but I'm not sure how to apply it as a modifier to a glare. I mean, if that's what's going on here, I'm all for it, but somehow I suspect not...

'lips puff out' feels maybe a bit poutier than I think you're going for here with that specific line.

p.4

hmmm. 'am I supposed to feel bad about this' feels rather a lot more sarcastic than I think is intended from what I get by the rest of the conversation further down.

p.5

Contact, meeting... I'm not sure how well this jives with my impression of the situation, but this is something that feels likely to be from my coming in late to the story. Wouldn't sweat it if it's only me.

p.6

hmm.

p.7

The bit with the sketch feels pretty heavy-handed to me, honestly.

Overall, I, ehh. It works, but that's not my problem here; like, I get the necessities involved, biologically speaking, with sexual reproduction. How ev er, this is sort of where I look at it and feel concerned this is going in somewhat gender essentialist directions, which, ehh. 

So, my understanding is that at present Rex is something one, at present, becomes via a mechanism I've missed at this point. At present, the cast entirely genders the Rex as male. I am going to assume by this that this is meant as what would typically be assigned male at birth as we at present do.

So, it doesn't really follow for the Rex to be universally male; by the above, trans women would also be affected. Suggesting that they might cease to be women once becoming affected would be... unfortunate, to say the least. (do they still gender themselves? similarly suggesting that the coldly rational would assign themselves all as male is unfortunate). Vice versa, if trans men would be affected-- well, then the capture and rape plan they've been running with just seems really inefficient.

But since this appears to be a question of factory original parts, one wonders: what about intersexed individuals? Are they susceptible? If yes, it becomes more likely that they might already have among them people with viable eggs (even if they would be unable to carry a term, there's certainly ways to get them out of someone, and if they're coldly rational, I'm sure at least one of them's thought of that). If no, why not? There's a lot of different ways someone can fall under that umbrella.

I suppose by and large then the easiest way to look at my issue is as an objection is to phrasings like 'create female Rex'; it doesn't make sense at all for there to be no female Rex if Rex have any gender at all. If their difficulty is propogating themselves beyond the current mechanism, then that's what it ought to be framed as. Right now, eh, implications are kind of unfortunate in every direction.

[Hobbit]

Interesting comments, @neongrey.  I hadn't thought through that when I read, but now that you've pointed out those gender issues I think there are a lot of cool ways the story could go to address them more thoroughly.

I just wanted to add that I really liked the "scissored him a glare" phrase - I thought it was really evocative - but then again I wasn't aware of the sexual version.  

[kais]

8 hours ago, neongrey said:

I mean, if that's what's going on here, I'm all for it, but somehow I suspect not...

*coughs* *coughs again* *backs out of the thread*

[spieles]

13 hours ago, neongrey said:

Geez, I am just exhausted lately. Let's see here...

p.1

Nice start; gives a nice sense of the sort of place this is.

'she introduces herself' is redundant with that introductory line.

I'm not sure a wall is the sort of trap you can spring. More of an obstacle one encounters, really.

p.2

... even with it cracking, lol. (it is not the text I am loling at, lol)

'when she finishes' is again a lilbit redundant

uugh there's a particular family of possessive behaviour I do not like and I am seeing flashes of it it here and i am just gonna see where this goes for now

Heh. I like possessiveness, though I think the "possessiveness here" is equally shared. These two kiddos were just too codependent for too long out of necessity. On this note, dubious consent is my favorite romantic trope. People getting seduced in tricky, nefarious ways is my favorite thing to read. (See me scrolling through the the dub!con tag on Ao3 in my favorite fandoms) but I know this squicks other people, so this is definitely a taste thing.... In real life, I'd never want such things, of course, but in terms of my reading preferences....

p.3

'scissoring a glare' is not really an idiom I know, or rather-- the only real way that I am familiar with 'to scissor' as a verb is as a specific sex act between vagina-havers. The previous time I encountered it I could sort of intuit that you meant moving in that direction but I'm not sure how to apply it as a modifier to a glare. I mean, if that's what's going on here, I'm all for it, but somehow I suspect not...  

'lips puff out' feels maybe a bit poutier than I think you're going for here with that specific line.

p.4

hmmm. 'am I supposed to feel bad about this' feels rather a lot more sarcastic than I think is intended from what I get by the rest of the conversation further down. Yeah, it's supposed to read as pretty deadpan, so I'm not sure your reading is wrong, but then I'm wondering if we need more of a transition down below.

p.7

The bit with the sketch feels pretty heavy-handed to me, honestly. 

Overall, I, ehh. It works, but that's not my problem here; like, I get the necessities involved, biologically speaking, with sexual reproduction. How ver, this is sort of where I look at it and feel concerned this is going in somewhat gender essentialist directions, which, ehh. So, my understanding is that at present Rex is something one, at present, becomes via a mechanism I've missed at this point. At present, the cast entirely genders the Rex as male. I am going to assume by this that this is meant as what would typically be assigned male at birth as we at present do. So, it doesn't really follow for the Rex to be universally male; by the above, trans women would also be affected. Suggesting that they might cease to be women once becoming affected would be... unfortunate, to say the least. (do they still gender themselves? similarly suggesting that the coldly rational would assign themselves all as male is unfortunate). Vice versa, if trans men would be affected-- well, then the capture and rape plan they've been running with just seems really inefficient. But since this appears to be a question of factory original parts, one wonders: what about intersexed individuals? Are they susceptible? If yes, it becomes more likely that they might already have among them people with viable eggs (even if they would be unable to carry a term, there's certainly ways to get them out of someone, and if they're coldly rational, I'm sure at least one of them's thought of that). If no, why not? There's a lot of different ways someone can fall under that umbrella. I suppose by and large then the easiest way to look at my issue is as an objection is to phrasings like 'create female Rex'; it doesn't make sense at all for there to be no female Rex if Rex have any gender at all. If their difficulty is propogating themselves beyond the current mechanism, then that's what it ought to be framed as. Right now, eh, implications are kind of unfortunate in every direction.

So the Rex's take on sexuality is very gender essentialist. Right now, they're accepting of cis gay males with relevant talents, but like with the Nazis (and I'm modelling them off major aspects of the Nazis), I wouldn't be surprised if a major segment of these a$$h*l%# were all up for exterminating anyone who didn't meet their Darwinian plan. Also, Oz suffers from limited POV and social isolation, having grown up in the middle of nowhere. I don't see him as having a developed social consciousness or an adapted vocabulary on intersexed gender issues. I would need to have a fully developed character in the novel that gave him that consciousness or made him question his own tenets, along the lines of Left Hand of Darkness, etc., and this is just not that story.

This is like the conversation I had with Kaisa over "Asian eyes." On one hand, its so freaking racist and generalizing to describe a person of Asian ethnicity by calling their eyes Asian or worse, slanted, but most of the PC descriptions of eyes are also completely inauthentic to POV. Most white, upper middle class college-age boys really do think internally "Asian eyes." So... *headdesk*

So thank you so much for reading! I really appreciate it. And always thank you for the LBLs.

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by spieles

[Vreeah]

Time for a stream of consciousness.

I'm jumping in late, so sorry in advance for everything that confuses me.

===

Ch 12, Page 1:
I hate the underground too, bubby. Caving is a terrifying pastime.

Oh, bringing down the building? Quake powers? That or a terrible basement.

Ah, we're in a more sci-fi zone.

Hm. Bride tryouts. Sounds fancy, but the current setting tells me otherwise.

It seems it's the world that crumbles, or at least most of it. Also, no quake powers.

Ch 12, Page 2:
A quick jump to Pascal's turn. I'm guessing the other candidates end up being unimportant to the story.

She's good, and seems like a favorite. The most nimble, for sure.

Hm, do the Brides get along, then? I guess this isn't a tournament scenario.

Well, that finished fast. Yeah, other candidates aren't important, at least not to our buddy here.

Hello person.

Ch 12, Page 3:
Restating. Hello very important and likely competent person.

Hello rich person. I'd guess you have family issues of some sort. Then again, a lot of people do.

Also, I think Oz spaced out during most of this conversation, cause we're getting a pretty raw playback. Nearly forgot we were in his head.

Ch 12, Page 4:
I already figured you didn't care about them, Oz.

Hi artist person.

Oh no, Oz, did you get caught in the winds of romance? It happens.

Dinosaur people! Yes!

Artist tags in for exposition. I feel her sudden answer would've worked better in my head if someone asked a question first.

Ch 12, Page 5:
Okay, I'm a bit lost at this mention of infiltration. Is that about whatever Oz did before this chapter? That security thing might've been unrelated, but that's my best guess.

Ooo, maximum plot.

This seems like a bad idea, Oz.

Now, is Pascal still mulling over whatever Oz was involved in, or does she just hate dinosaur folks?

Ch 12, Page 6:
Was Oz talking about Pascal? I guess he was, because that feels like a reason that'd fill a person with hate. I guess Pascal hates em.

Also, I think those statements defeat each other, Hayden. If you know they're friends, then you should also figure that they know each other.

Weren't you two already standing right next to each other the last page? Arms nearly touching and all that? Another small step might be unneeded.

Ch 12, Page 7:
No, don't be fooled by the sketch of love, Oz! Resist!

Aw, well at least you acknowledge the doom you're walking into.

===

Yep, I'm pretty confused. I can't be sure if it's the structure of the chapter or my inexperience with past events and proper nouns.

Oz seems very direct and stoic.

Hayden feels jumpy, like her confidence is somewhat false. I wouldn't be surprised if she's being manipulated by others.

[Robinski]

On 16/08/2016 at 7:31 PM, Mandamon said:

The chapter is good, but it's not yet great.

Uh-huh. That's a good summation of how I felt.

Hey Spieles, apologies for the delay in responding, but at least it’s still the same week, right? Right? Just been busy doing other things than writing – I hate it when that happens!!

Anyway, RK’s ABCD, yaddah, yaddah, (A) = Awesome; (B) = Boring; (C) = Confusing; and (D) = Disbelief (-inducing), plus (G) Grammar/typo noted below.

Overall, however, I enjoyed this submission. There are very familiar elements that feel almost straight out of the Hunger Games in terms of the testing. Maybe that’s not a big deal, because the testing is not really the centre of attention, rather it’s the interaction of the people.

I got annoyed around about the appearance of Channing and Dion, who felt like they were there just to generate some conflict. Channing gets no real setup and I thought he felt like Generic Love Rival No.2. Dion is annoying, but I felt that was your aim. His comment about rich people felt meaningless to me and his dialogue in general here, I think, could be improved by a few passes, probably Channing’s too.

I'm still not convinced about Hayden being the one to recommend that Oz goes. It implies a level of influence that I'm not convinced by. There is a powerful Council and a massive influential company, but this girl is swanning around making policy decisions? I think maybe I just need a tiny bit more about her motivation.

The last line confuses me. I don’t see where his self-loathing comes from, although there are possibilities, I don’t think it’s clear.

Summary, good job, loving the teenage angst and the First Temptation of Oz, but some of the secondary character parts could be improved, I think.

<R>

---------------------------------------------

(A) – I like the opening line. Sets the scene straight away, somehow.

(G) – “while the empty chambers burble with giant sewage vats” – you know by now I can’t stop myself from line-by-lining. It’s the vats that are burbling, so “while giant sewage vats burble in empty chambers” seems more correct and easier to absorb.

(B?) – “a ground floor with a mezzanine balcony looking down on the obstacle course below” – This conjures the exact image of the gamemakers’ area as they observed the testing in the Hunger Games.

(C) – “gives a soft wave” – I don’t know what that is. I think the description needs to be better.

(D) – “Her bleach white dress, military with its stiff form” – I struggle with the idea of a dress being a form of military clothing, for practical reasons.

(B/C) – “The first candidates advances like a mouse in a maze” – I feel that this means timid and uncertain, which turns me off, because how did they get as far as the tryouts unless they have certain qualities looked for in a bride? Yeah, see “The others looked worried, even haunted” – why is this, why would they even be here if this is the state they are in. This does not add up for me (D). And “Her time, when she finishes, is a full ten minutes faster than the others” adds to my disbelief.

(D) – “into the pack of her fellow Brides” – Surely they are not brides, not yet.

(B) – “a dozen have passed, and (but?) none of them beat Pascal’s score” – This is somehow dismissive. We never got to see anyway else succeed.

(D) – “and only a few inches shorter than me” – a few inches is a lot. If Oz is 6’2” – say, I don’t know. I think of ‘a few’ as at least a handful, so 5 inches, making Channing 5’9” – that’s a massive difference in height.

(B/C/D) – “with a politician’s swagger” – No, I don’t by this at all. Politicians don’t swagger. Musicians might swagger, sports stars would swagger, actors might swagger, but (most) politicians are (should be) about appearing capable, confident and empathetic. I would not call that swagger.

(B) – “Dion Krieger, with no apparent qualms about interrupting, leans against the pole.” Where did he just appear from? We saw Channing’s approach, but Dion just appears by magic.

(B) – “What happened?” Pascal asks, her tone more curious than anything” – She’s just asked a question, this seems redundant.

(C) – “Channing’s easy demeanor turns rigid.” – I thought he was already up tight from the last remark.

(G) – “between Channing to and me”.

(C) – “The accusation in her eyes, it’s like she doesn’t know me” – This might be WRS. Did they have a moment before? I'm not sure I’ve got a proper handle on the Oz / Pascal relationship. Are we to imply here that she thought they were together? We never get that impression from Oz, I think. Or have I forgotten something.

(C) – “they drug them with an Amanita imitator” – I don’t remember what this is.

(B/D) – “The audience on the mezzanine leans over the bars with eager eyes and parted lips” – dislike this painting of the audience as a single entity, or rather multiple entities all behaving in precisely the same way. It’s not the reaction itself, it’s the way it feels staged, like a flash mod.

(A) – Oz’s interaction with Hayden is sizzling – I thought that worked really well.

(D) – “I think: I am an idiot and I maybe deserve to die” – What, why? I don’t see how this follows, or from where.

[neongrey]

16 hours ago, spieles said:

Heh. I like possessiveness, though I think the "possessiveness here" is equally shared. These two kiddos were just too codependent for too long out of necessity. On this note, dubious consent is my favorite romantic trope. People getting seduced in tricky, nefarious ways is my favorite thing to read. (See me scrolling through the the dub!con tag on Ao3 in my favorite fandoms) but I know this squicks other people, so this is definitely a taste thing.... In real life, I'd never want such things, of course, but in terms of my reading preferences....

That's fair and in and of itself I'm not particularly bothered by it in isolation, but I just get a bit of a red flag when I see someone we're ostensibly supposed to like getting their back up about other characters exercising that sort of agency. It is not per se an issue but it's also the sort of thing that's common enough that it may be introduced where it's not wanted.

Otherwise, you know, depending on what fandoms you're into........................ but yeah that's something that needs to be handled carefully in more serious contexts

16 hours ago, spieles said:

So the Rex's take on sexuality is very gender essentialist. Right now, they're accepting of cis gay males with relevant talents, but like with the Nazis (and I'm modelling them off major aspects of the Nazis), I wouldn't be surprised if a major segment of these a$$h*l%# were all up for exterminating anyone who didn't meet their Darwinian plan.

In that case, I'm not sure how sold I am on people who appear to have generalized awareness of what they're about characterizing them as being so rational overall; given that it's shutting out some definite avenues for them to pursue in dealing with this problem. Not that I think anyone in the story wants to suggest it to them ('goodness, your evil plan would probably work way better if you did this...') but when it comes to this it certainly leaves me going 'well this clearly only works if one assumes everyone's cis and their parts fall within certain defined medical standards', lol

I mean if at present they consist solely of the overlap of 'male' and 'born with a penis' that's valid* too but is, I think, at least a slightly irrational position to take when considering propogation of the ?species? (which is clearly not the right word but w/e)

So yeah in this I think it comes down to the presentation as rational when it's in a lot of ways an emotional position; I don't know that I've encountered a particular reason to believe Hayden's framing there shouldn't be considered authoritative.

17 hours ago, spieles said:

Also, Oz suffers from limited POV and social isolation, having grown up in the middle of nowhere. I don't see him as having a developed social consciousness or an adapted vocabulary on intersexed gender issues. I would need to have a fully developed character in the novel that gave him that consciousness or made him question his own tenets, along the lines of Left Hand of Darkness, etc., and this is just not that story.

Yeah, in this I think the answer is less to dig deeper on it (certainly Oz, I think, is not in a position to really be inclined to go over the nitty-gritty of Rex propogation); I think just the framing and phrasing by people who know what they're talking about would paper it over neatly.

 

17 hours ago, spieles said:

This is like the conversation I had with Kaisa over "Asian eyes." On one hand, its so freaking racist and generalizing to describe a person of Asian ethnicity by calling their eyes Asian or worse, slanted, but most of the PC descriptions of eyes are also completely inauthentic to POV. Most white, upper middle class college-age boys really do think internally "Asian eyes." So... *headdesk*

Certainly preferable to various food-based descriptors, lol. My thought there would be a bit more to question if the sense of modern white upper-middle class even still exists very much-- but then too I did miss like, all the chapters that would have had introductory stuff like that, so, hey, lol.

[spieles]

On 8/20/2016 at 1:57 AM, Vreeah said:

Yep, I'm pretty confused. I can't be sure if it's the structure of the chapter or my inexperience with past events and proper nouns.

Oz seems very direct and stoic.

Hayden feels jumpy, like her confidence is somewhat false. I wouldn't be surprised if she's being manipulated by others.

Thank you for reading with so little context.

Yeah, Oz is very understated, and in this scene he's particularly defensive - especially with Channing/Dion.  I'm wondering if  the reason that this chapter is kind of coming across as "meh" for people is actually because they're dialogue is MISSING key things like direction and is actually sort of vague. There's no fun undertow happening - it's too on the nose. Hayden definitely is not being manipulated by others but she's also being insincere in this scene. Going to try to get under that....

[spieles]

On 8/20/2016 at 2:34 AM, Robinski said:

Uh-huh. That's a good summation of how I felt.

Hey Spieles, apologies for the delay in responding, but at least it’s still the same week, right? Right? Just been busy doing other things than writing – I hate it when that happens!!

No worries. Thank you so much for taking the time to give feedback.

 

On 8/20/2016 at 2:34 AM, Robinski said:

Anyway, RK’s ABCD, yaddah, yaddah, (A) = Awesome; (B) = Boring; (C) = Confusing; and (D) = Disbelief (-inducing), plus (G) Grammar/typo noted below.

Overall, however, I enjoyed this submission. There are very familiar elements that feel almost straight out of the Hunger Games in terms of the testing. Maybe that’s not a big deal, because the testing is not really the centre of attention, rather it’s the interaction of the people.

Yeah, we are avoiding Divergent/Hunger Games tropes as much as possible. The obstacle course is supposed to be more like the end of a military basic training... just with the whole kill-a-Rex finale to take things up a notch.

I got annoyed around about the appearance of Channing and Dion, who felt like they were there just to generate some conflict. Channing gets no real setup and I thought he felt like Generic Love Rival No.2. Dion is annoying, but I felt that was your aim. His comment about rich people felt meaningless to me and his dialogue in general here, I think, could be improved by a few passes, probably Channing’s too.

Going to rethink Channing's introduction here. See if I can make it more specific. Dion is just showing up to be a dick and nothing more, but I'm currently brainstorming with a friend as to how to develop Oz's "leadership" plot line and I think the devil is in the details with Channing here. 

I'm still not convinced about Hayden being the one to recommend that Oz goes. It implies a level of influence that I'm not convinced by. There is a powerful Council and a massive influential company, but this girl is swanning around making policy decisions? I think maybe I just need a tiny bit more about her motivation.

You mean the Board. The democratically elected Citizen's Council has zero power since they have no budget. (Apparently, this important distinction has been confusing everyone. Fail.) Hayden actually is the heiress to Turner - one of the three largest companies on the Board - so she does have financial power; however, it's really General Ruth Krieger that is trying to get Oz to go. Hayden's  sent as the messenger here, but with her own personal reasons that I'm realizing are not really well explained or developed. As you say, her motivations need better development. She does not know that Oz is Oz Penton. 

The last line confuses me. I don’t see where his self-loathing comes from, although there are possibilities, I don’t think it’s clear.Yeah, I'm realizing now that it should tie back into Eleanor. Oz is feeling frustrated and isolated - especially with everything that's happened in the past couple of days and he should actually be wishing he was getting out of the city and doing something. 

Summary, good job, loving the teenage angst and the First Temptation of Oz, but some of the secondary character parts could be improved, I think. As always, thank you.  And the LBLs are always appreciated.

 

[krystalynn03]

Overall Impressions

 

Firstly, this is 100x better than having the council of old stuffy adults arguing over what Oz should do and more or less deciding for him. The trials going on in the background add some action imagery to what’s really a dialogue section to establish enough exposition to get Oz moving out of the city and set up the next arc of the book. I still like that Pascal and Oz feel like real friends.

 

I didn’t care much for Channing. I mean, I liked his character and thought he made an interesting addition to the cast, but why was he dating Hayden? That seems forced, like you were using him just to ramp up tension for Oz and company rather than feeling like a natural outgrowth of the plot. Maybe the way Pascal looked at him to start was a false lead and set up my expectations wrong.

 

Also, I’m not understanding Dion at all. Yesterday, he’s breaking Hayden out—or attempting to—and today he’s hitting on Pascal? From the last version of the hospital sequence I thought that Dion and Hayden were a thing. Are they or aren’t they?

 

Adults: All the adults with their last names still blend together for me. I don’t think that’s an edit to fix here—just a jumble of different versions in my head from rewrites and not having a clear picture of who they were when you initially introduced them.

 

Smiles: You refer to smiles too often for me in a short swath of text. “Toothy smile” “Hammy smile” “I know my smile is ridiculous” “His smile softened…”  You’re using it as shorthand for emotions. Spice it up and use something else—twirling hair or something. There’s lots of body language for displaying romantic interest or flirting. I especially didn’t like the toothy smile. It made Pascale seem like she needed braces when I was trying to imagine her getting ready to go knock the teeth out of some Rex!

 

Sorry this is so late. I read it on a cell phone while travelling and finally got to reread it thoughtfully yesterday and then today revise my thoughts. Hope it’s useful!