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Complementing powers


Oversleep

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2 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

This combo really should be on your list @Oversleep. It has great benefits on both ends of the spectrum. The above being the positive end, but the more nefarious can wreak havoc with these. I give to you: The ultimate Spy

Brass/Zinc to dampen/enflame things like worry/confidence (Social) or curiosity/trust (Spy)
Connection from F-Duralumin is always useful: Tap to connect with people and not stand out, Store greatly to not really register to people
Maybe add F-Copper to remember names, faces, locations, etc.. and A-Copper to hide the usage of magic. (Useful for Social abilities too: don't want to forget someone's name/get noticed while soothing now would you?)
Oh yeah, A-Copper blocks emotional allomancy. So you don't get manipulated by the social elite or the spy-hunters. Win-Win situation

I hesitate to add the emotional Allomancy/ Feruchemical Duraluminium because we literally don't know whether it works like that. I'd give the same merit to the emotional Allomancy/Feruchemical Aluminium combo (like steelpushing/weight). So I don't add that.
And the only use of duraluminium we know so far is speaking in the native language of the land you're visiting.
Also, remember what Marsh said? Burning copper is easy to check, just Soothe the guy and if he doesn't react, he's a Smoker.

By the way, I'm not looking for specific sets of abilites (like the mentioned spy). For example, Lurcher/Gasper is a great combo for sailors, but it's not what I'm looking for. I search for powers which complement each other - for example, what's the best way to augment Steelrunning? Sand Mastery runs on water, so Feruchemical bendalloy is great for them. And so on. Steelrunning has issues with friction, so let's throw Abrasion there. This one is one of my better entries, as it works the opposite way too - Abrasion lets you slide as long as you have Stormlight, so you'd want to have high initial speed, so Steelrunning.
I also gather entries built around specific sets of abilities - like the last entry for seeing the future. Or if you want to live indefinitely long and be healthy, being Elantrian of at least Fifth Heightening able to inhale Stormlight and to use Feruchemical gold is for you. Or if you're looking for physical power and healing, Stormlight with Feruchemical cadmium and Allomantic pewter with Feruchemical gold.

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Not sure if this idea came out.

A surgebinder capable of manipulating the surge of adhesion while being a steel/iron allomancer. Allomantic duraluminin would probably also be necessary.

This person could take a pair of coins, "glue" them anywhere with a full lashing, then push/pull on them to destroy whatever the coins are stuck to. While this would cause stress on the person, stormlight healing and strengthening would help. Overall, you could destroy a lot of things with your allomancy, without needing preset anchors. Nor would you need to worry about the anchors getting ripped out before the whole structure breaks, since the full lashing would keep things together.

Ooooh... I like that. Very clever.

I'll soon update the main post about... some things. It'll be at the top.

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4 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

By the way, I'm not looking for specific sets of abilites (like the mentioned spy). For example, Lurcher/Gasper is a great combo for sailors, but it's not what I'm looking for. I search for powers which complement each other - for example, what's the best way to augment Steelrunning? Sand Mastery runs on water, so Feruchemical bendalloy is great for them. And so on. Steelrunning has issues with friction, so let's throw Abrasion there. This one is one of my better entries, as it works the opposite way too - Abrasion lets you slide as long as you have Stormlight, so you'd want to have high initial speed, so Steelrunning.
I also gather entries built around specific sets of abilities - like the last entry for seeing the future.

I think I see what you mean now. You start with a power/set of powers and ask: "What could make this better?"
I look more at a job/type of person and ask the same thing.

Good catch on the Marsh quote, I guess i need to reread many books for details

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1 hour ago, Drake Marshall said:

@Spoolofwhool I like this one. Also with this power they could anchor themselves with a full lashing, and then steelpush as hard as they want and win any kind of pushing match. The benefits are similar to those enjoyed by Wax as a crasher.

I just realized someone else about your full lashing idea. You have to make sure you're anchoring your upper body. If you just apply a full lashing to your feet and push from standing, you could be defeated... literally. Of course, it wouldn't matter much since you have stormlight to regrow it, but I'm sure it would suck.

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Quite true. You have to be careful about where you anchor yourself.

 

Hm... Also, has it been mentioned to combine soulcasting and soulforging? Soulcasting can change the material of an object, which is something soulforging has trouble with. Soulforging can bring about much more precise small changes without much difficulty though, which is something that is very difficult to do in soulcasting. When combined, these two tools would complement each other and generally let you reshape objects around you to your will.

Also, if we extend this to being a full lightweaver and a full maipon forger... Lightweaving can quickly change your appearance, while forging can, with more preparation, grant you a disguise that can withstand a lot more scrutiny. Plus with lightweaving you could cover up the stamp mark on your body without much trouble at all.

And also the general talents of individuals that follow these two arts seem to coincide a little bit. This combination isn't even so very far fetched; someone could theoretically learn forgery and then worldhop to Roshar where they might well attract a cryptic.

Edit: Storms it has been mentioned. Well, the above is more reason why these two are really complimentary.

 

Also another combination that is more a prediction than anything else:

Identity feruchemy and southern scadrial's "fabrials". In the modern era scadrial I am expecting these devices to be a major part of their modern technology. And it strikes me that, if you were to make some kind of allomantic/feruchemical computer... Feruchemical identity is an incredibly effective method of authentication. I can already envision some security protocols that would use feruchemical identity to authenticate. Because, you can't exactly forge another person's spiritual identity to impersonate them. Unless maybe you used soul forging, which nobody has access to on Scadrial so far as we have seen.

Edited by Drake Marshall
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I don't think forgery could even replicate someone else's identity. Forgery essence marks use your spiritual identity as a base, with modification. I suppose if holding the essence mark doesn't matter, then you could try to apply someone else's spiritual identity, but I don't think it would even hold for a moment. Not to mention that to make the essence mark you would need to know nearly everything about them. It eould probably be easier just to hemalurgically spike them and add their identity to yours, since we know hemalurgy does steal identity and grant access to metalminds.

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2 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

we know hemalurgy does steal identity and grant access to metalminds.

I know hemalurgy can steal identity in some way... Granting full access to a set of metalminds though? Impressive. When you have time would you mind showing me where you saw that? That sounds interesting.

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  • 1 month later...

Allomantic pewter plus feruchemical gold, feruchemical steel, or full feruchemist. This way you can fill your goldminds/steelminds from the extra health/speed you get by burning pewterwithout ever dropping below 'normal' health/speed. While it's not as good at any one thing as compounding one of the feruchemical metals, you get the broad physical boost (strength, agility/balance, speed, healing, physical toughness) of pewter allomancy.

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3 hours ago, Kolfire said:

Stormlight+Nicrosil

put out lots of orbs in highstorm or go out yourself, Take lots of investiture. Now uberpowered.

The question is still whether Nicrosil feruchemy can only store the innate investiture related to the ability to use a manifestation of investiture, or whether it can store kinetic investiture as well. If it is only innate investiture, then it wouldn't be able to store Stormlight, since that is kinetic investiture. 

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  • 1 month later...

I've said this elsewhere, but if the Division surge works as some have theorized and allows you to make things combust, give me Division and brass Feruchemy. Set your whole area ablaze, brass to store that warmth. If I'm choosing an order with Division, I'd rather slide around in the fire than fly up in its smoke, so I'd pick Dustbringer over Skybreaker.

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  • 2 months later...

I came up with a new one: Stonewarden Awakener.

See, we don't know what Tension and Cohesion do exactly. We know that:

Quote

Cohesion involved being able to alter things at a molecular level, and his example was that you could push your hand on a table, and when you removed your hand there would still be a handprint.

Quote

Q:  Can you tell me something about Tension and Cohesion?
A:  I haven't actually written these magic systems yet, so they may change.  But they are--Tension is the ability to take something flexible and make it rigid. Which sounds simple, but there are so many cool things you can do with that.

Awakeners use mostly cloth and fabric in Awakening. Combined with ability to alter its flexibility/stiffness and (probably) malleability... You'd no longer be limited by the fact that you're using fabric in Awakening - you could alter it how you want at will. One moment your Awakened sleeves "grip what you must", the next moment you can parry swords with it. If you have long tassels, you could Command them to spring at enemies and then make them stiff and rigid and pierce their bodies.

The idea started when I thought of Vasher using his clothing to enhance his limbs; I thought of designing clothes which you could Awaken to form an exoskeleton around your body. Stonewarden can make armor out of it (or use them offensively like in example above). Then I threw Twinborn in that, because that's what I do.

As of right now we have an Awakener wrapped in Awakened exoskeleton which can also be used offensively (tassels. Tassels everywhere), who can inhale Stormlight (boost in physical abilities + powerful regeneration) and alter the physical properties of things he Awakens. Which Allomantic power and which Feruchemical power goes with that?

Well, I think Allomantic pewter is good - it combines nicely with the enhanced abilities of exoskeleton + Stormlight. Another one could be Allomantic tin, to play along with the Heightened senses.

Feruchemical powers... it's hard to choose from. We could go Feruchemical pewter just to add even more strength. We could go Feruchemical tin (although it's a very inferior choice to Allomantic tin). Feruchemical steel is always OP. Feruchemical gold is always helpful. Feruchemical duralumin could enhance lifesense (if it works on Connection). Feruchemical zinc would probably be the best - faster thinking to Awaken in combat situations.

I think I would settle on Pewter/Zinc Twinborn or Tin/Zinc Twinborn, depending on what you want enhance more.
All in all, the combination is Pewter/Tin & Zinc Twinborn Stoneward Awakener.

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Nice combo. Also I'll recommend feruchemical iron for the twinborn set, because a guy in magical, deadly power armor is still vulnerable to being pushed over.

Speaking of magical power armor, I almost wonder if this is the origins of shard plate... But personally I am of the belief that lesser spren form into shardplate.

Also, I have an idea for complementing powers:

 

Awakening and forgery.

Say someone dies. They have been dead long enough that their cognitive aspect has passed into the great beyond already, so a regrowth fabrial can't even help them.

You can flesh forge their wounds away, leaving them as a perfectly healthy but still dead body.

Then you can awaken them as a lifeless, making them into a catatonic zombie.

Then reforge the soul of the lifeless like we saw is possible in Emperor's Soul. Instruct them to apply the stamp every day so they don't revert to a lifeless.

 

You've just technically brought someone back from the dead. And with that soul stamp and additional breaths, you could bring them back again if they died again.

Technically, you haven't actually brought the person back, you've merely made a forgery of their soul and shoved it into their reanimated corpse. But there are still a lot of uses for this technique, I think...

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1 hour ago, Oversleep said:

(Tassels. Tassels everywhere)

Give him a Mistcloak. :P   Stoneward Awakener would be pretty resourceful, so I'd say A-Pewter with F-Zinc or F-Copper is the best bet. Extra thinking time/extra memory space to come up with/store commands and/or the visualizations of them would make Awakening in the fray more powerful.

Stormlight heals so you don't need F-Gold, F-Pewter in hardened clothing would be.. uncomfortable. Senses via the Heightenings don't have the loud noise/bright lights drawback that A-Tin does. Both Stormlight and A-Pewter provide speed so you don't need F-Steel

Edited by The One Who Connects
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Wait. Guys. I forgot something. We're talking Stonewarden here. A Radiant. It means... SHARDPLATE. Now my idea of the Awakened exoskeleton is not so smart anymore <_< You can still wrap it over the Shardplate for extra strength, though.

Although I wonder whether Shardplate would not create interference - could you Awaken in Shardplate? Breath would need to go from inside of the Plate to the outside of the Plate.

@Drake Marshall, this WoB could be of interest to you.

14 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Give him a Mistcloak. :P

I'm imagining a regular clothing, but with tassels everywhere. Like... mistcloak is kind of cape cut up in tassels and mistcoat is a duster cut up in tassels. I'm saying regular mistclothing. Like, you get a regular shirt and sew in tassels everywhere, in every part of it.

I don't think Feruchemical copper would be that useful - you probably memorised the Commands during training, Feruchemical zinc would be more useful in the fray. Feruchemical copper really shines for Elantrians.

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1 minute ago, Oversleep said:

Although I wonder whether Shardplate would not create interference - could you Awaken in Shardplate? Breath would need to go from inside of the Plate to the outside of the Plate.

Well if we make the assumption that you can Surgebind in your own Plate because it is your own Plate, then it shouldn't interfere. He could always despawn the helmet when he says the Command if need be.

About the Mistcloak, you gave me an opportunity so I took it. I see where you are going with normal clothing now. Perhaps this Radiant is one that forgoed Plate in favor of less conspicuous(and easier to put on) attire.

I added Copper more for if you can store the mental image from a Command in a Coppermind. You can remember things that you envisioned/imagined in your head, so it might count. That way, you can store the visualizations of complicated commands in a place where they don't degrade or get shuffled around. Zinc would probably still be the better choice, but I like to give other powers just as much relevance.

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1 minute ago, The One Who Connects said:

I added Copper more for if you can store the mental image from a Command in a Coppermind. You can remember things that you envisioned/imagined in your head, so it might count. That way, you can store the visualizations of complicated commands in a place where they don't degrade or get shuffled around. Zinc would probably still be the better choice, but I like to give other powers just as much relevance.

I see it now. In that case copper could probably be a better choice than zinc. If you had your copperminds nicely organised, you could do complex Awakenings on the fly.

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5 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Wait. Guys. I forgot something. We're talking Stonewarden here. A Radiant. It means... SHARDPLATE. Now my idea of the Awakened exoskeleton is not so smart anymore <_< You can still wrap it over the Shardplate for extra strength, though.

Although I wonder whether Shardplate would not create interference - could you Awaken in Shardplate? Breath would need to go from inside of the Plate to the outside of the Plate.

@Drake Marshall, this WoB could be of interest to you.

I'm imagining a regular clothing, but with tassels everywhere. Like... mistcloak is kind of cape cut up in tassels and mistcoat is a duster cut up in tassels. I'm saying regular mistclothing. Like, you get a regular shirt and sew in tassels everywhere, in every part of it.

I don't think Feruchemical copper would be that useful - you probably memorised the Commands during training, Feruchemical zinc would be more useful in the fray. Feruchemical copper really shines for Elantrians.

Actually, the Awakened exoskeleton would still be extremely useful. Particularly if you make it right (well, that's obvious, but hey, there are different kinds of right). If its job is to reduce the number of impacts your Plate receives, you can make the Light in your Plate go farther. If your Awakened exoskeleton (hereafter known as Object) basically just catches arrows and deflects sword/hammer blows (and keeps pesky spearmen's throwing knives and spearheads out of your eyes), then it would still be incredibly useful. If you combine that with having some tassels designed for cutting things that get close to you, and some that remain as pure defense/flexible tassels, you would be a walking indestructible spinning saw. Even better if the Object is awakened to sentience so that it can warn you of approaching enemies and be proactive in what it does.

I guess I am a big fan of really powerful awakened artifacts. I also have musings somewhere on making a type IV bioentity that also uses Hemalurgy (or medallions) and Aons to make it frankly ridiculous, so I have experience with crazy ideas like this.

5 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Perhaps this Radiant is one that forgoed Plate in favor of less conspicuous(and easier to put on) attire.

I think the word you were looking for is forwent. That doesn't get a red squiggly line for me. ;)

 

To actually contribute to the main body of the thread, potion making with just about anything else would be frankly stupidly good if potions work how I think they do. I think they work by imbuing the potion with power when brewed, so they can be consumed anywhere. As seen with the one potion we have gotten a look at, this can clearly emulate the effects of Forging, but probably without some of the limitations that Forging experiences. There would still be power barriers, but you could manipulate your soul to a great degree. And free willed soul manipulations are frankly better than anything else. I think I have in this thread or one like it that if you combo it up with A-Gold, you get really, really cool because apparently you can use gold to manipulate your cognitive self. With both of those out of the way, you can completely mold your self with only mere power restrictions.

Combo this up with being a Returned, specifically with A-Gold, and you get just a bit cooler. You can use gold to change your mental self, and that change is more easily reflected in your physical self as a Returned. Plus Heightenings are always nice, and potions can probably supply the necessary Investiture to keep you alive.

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10 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

If your Awakened exoskeleton (hereafter known as Object) basically just catches arrows and deflects sword/hammer blows (and keeps pesky spearmen's throwing knives and spearheads out of your eyes), then it would still be incredibly useful. [....]

I think the word you were looking for is forwent. That doesn't get a red squiggly line for me. ;)

Armor for your armor.. I have a sneaking suspicion that somehow, someway, that wouldn't work as well as we are imagining, but for the life of me, I cannot place why.

Re: Spelling

I can think of several words that I know for a fact are English words that it says are spelled wrong, only for me to check and find out I'm right. If it doesn't suggest a proper way to spell it on right click, then I go with what I came up with.

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35 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Armor for your armor.. I have a sneaking suspicion that somehow, someway, that wouldn't work as well as we are imagining, but for the life of me, I cannot place why.

Re: Spelling

I can think of several words that I know for a fact are English words that it says are spelled wrong, only for me to check and find out I'm right. If it doesn't suggest a proper way to spell it on right click, then I go with what I came up with.

Re Re: Spelling

Forwent is correct, I was merely citing the spellchecker as evidence. :P No hard feelings :D

 

Armor for your armor... we put ceramic plates in our Kevlar vests to make them more resistant (at least, until the ceramic cracks up), so armor for your armor isn't TOO ludicrous of an idea. This is just like wearing a cloak of deflection in a game, it makes you less likely to be hit.

This just gave me an idea-- a cloak of elvenkind mimic. Awaken what is effectively a gillie suit to make you even more chameleonish. Make it undulate according to the actual breeze like a plant, and if you could figure out some advanced magic to use on it, maybe an Aon of some sort or an illusion, you could make it actually color blend like a chameleon as well. With Stoneward abilities, you could potentially even change the properties of the suit to actually feel like a rock face or part of a tree etc. Illusion magic of some sort would go well with this, obviously.

The above paragraph makes me wonder if true invisibility is a possibility for Lightweavers... I feel like I've seen a WoB about this, but I don't remember anything about it, so it probably isn't a real thing. If they just make an illusion that 'bends' light around them, or emits light to mimic the light entering the illusion from the opposite side (this would be a really complex illusion, I know), then the person or object would just... disappear. There would have to be some stipulation for your retina, though, so that you can still see, which could cause some problems.

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2 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

Re Re: Spelling

Forwent is correct, I was merely citing the spellchecker as evidence. :P No hard feelings :D

[...]

The above paragraph makes me wonder if true invisibility is a possibility for Lightweavers... I feel like I've seen a WoB about this, but I don't remember anything about it, so it probably isn't a real thing. If they just make an illusion that 'bends' light around them, or emits light to mimic the light entering the illusion from the opposite side (this would be a really complex illusion, I know), then the person or object would just... disappear. There would have to be some stipulation for your retina, though, so that you can still see, which could cause some problems.

None taken. It sounded right in my head.

As for invis illusion.. Having to make eyeholes to see is right, as I remember Shallan not being able to see through her fake wall during one of her "Veil" chapters.

This is reminding me more and more of Refractionary and/or David's thoughts about Illusion Epics. Are we sure Reckoners isn't Cosmere :rolleyes:

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Just now, The One Who Connects said:

None taken. It sounded right in my head.

As for invis illusion.. Having to make eyeholes to see is right, as I remember Shallan not being able to see through her fake wall during one of her "Veil" chapters.

This is reminding me more and more of Refractionary and/or David's thoughts about Illusion Epics. Are we sure Reckoners isn't Cosmere :rolleyes:

I know right! Firefight is totally just a gold Allomancer... Bringing up shadows of alternate selves.

As for the invis illusion, I have seen this in other books, and it is always a nice touch. In one, a super speedster ran faster than light and everything went black, which, while cool, isn't what would happen, but it first introduced the idea to me. If you just moved faster than light, you would see something really distorted as your eyes move and mop up swathes of light, which would look really weird. Regardless, we are totally on the same page with this.

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