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Complementing powers


Oversleep

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This isn't a thread to post the best combinations of powers, but which powers fit what powers the most. I know Compounding steel is awesome; but what significantly improves Steelpushing is Feruchemical iron, not Feruchemical steel. I will update this post with other good combinations.

It's mostly about taking a power and thinking "what does that thing lack? How can we make it better?" or "which power are similar so you get all the powers associated with that"?

(Please restrain from mentioning Compoundings - let's assume that whenever someone points out Feruchemical power, it also could mean Compounding it, as it's upgrade of that power; but unless both powers of the metal are relevant, don't mention it)
(The same goes with powers like Allomantic atium or Feruchemical gold or Feruchemical zinc or Feruchemical nicrosil- those that are universally awesome so unless you have a good reason why that power matches the rest, don't mention it)

Allomantic iron/Allomantic steel and Feruchemical iron
Crasher combo is the most obvious one.

Bloodsealing and Awakening
We don't know much about Bloodsealing, but from what we have seen of it, it can animate skeletons. I think Awakening would go along with it really well.

Forger, Allomantic gold, Lightweaver
The whole idea of that thread started with Allomantic gold and Soul Forgery. I mean, it could be a lot easier to create Essence Mark if you can burn gold and see your alternate selves; perhaps you could deduce what are important points in your history and that could be a great aid in creating your Essence Mark; I suspect that burning gold while being stamped would allow you to simultaneously be your Forged Self and remember your original self as gold shadow. (A WoB says the gold shadows would change when Stamped)

Now, as Lightweavers deal with creating false versions of themselves and uncovering truths about themselves, both Soul Forgery and Augur go along with it pretty well. It could also allow to cut Stormlight cost for Lightweaving your appearance.

I don't know how Forgery and Soulcasting would fit each other, as Soulcasting seems much easier to transform things and it's much more pernament. On the other hand, I doubt Soulcasting could Forge a wall into painting like Shai did in her cell. So there is that; also Lightweavers are about art and creation (and perhaps a little of scholar type, if Shallan is any indication) so it would go along with Forgery.
I'd throw also Feruchemical Identity in the mix, but we don't really know how that works (yeah, even after BoM). Maybe Feruchemical Connection, too?

Sensory Upgrade Pack aka Allomantic tin, Feruchemical tin, Heightenings
Full sensory pack.

Sand Mastery, Feruchemical bendalloy and Feruchemical iron
Since Sand Mastery requires hydrenation (similarly how Awakening requires color), Feruchemical bendalloy is the perfect complementing power. Feruchemical iron since it's easier to lift oneself without weighting anything.

Hemalurgy and Shardblade
I mean, Hemalurgy is about ripping parts of Spiritweb and Sharblade is something which can cut the soul. If only there were some Shardscalpels... Instead of ripping out and shoving in parts of souls, you could cut out and implant.

More ideas! Your turn!

EDIT 1 (2016-07-18):
Gravitation Surge and Feruchemical iron (by Yata)
Storing or tapping weight while flying can lead to useful effects; we don't know whether more massive or bigger objects need more Stormlight, but we cover both situations:

  • Volume Scaling: Exponential force by tapping weight linearly and Lashing linearly (F=ma)
  • Mass Scaling: Reversing the trick - by storing a lot of weigh it's possible to exploit an extremely cheap Lashing to travel for a very long time (the Stormlight usage will be really, really low)

Kandra and healing (Feruchemical gold or Stormlight) (by Drake Marshall)
Kandra are very hard to kill, as they laugh off any damage (pain is only unpleasant to them) and can do with their bodies whatever they want. Combine that with the ability to heal those kinds of wounds which would be damaging to them (acid, Shardblades, probably fire or radiation) and they become truly immortal. Unless brain (or kandra's equivalent of such thing) is detroyed, of course.

Lifesense, Allomantic bronze, Feruchemical duraluminium (inspired by the post of Drake Marshall)
Investiture sensory pack.
In case Lifesense works on Connection, there is Feruchemical duraluminium to strenghten it. (Nope - you can Lifesense things you're not Connected to. WoB from Krakow)

Stormlight, Allomantic pewter, Feruchemical cadmium, probably Feruchemical gold (inspired by the post of Drake Marshall)
Holding Stormlight requires not breathing... and that's a very easy thing to do if you have Feruchemical cadmium.
Anyway, holding stormlight is very similar to Allomantic pewter, although Allomantic pewter is weaker at healing. So why not throw Feruchemical gold in the mix? That way it becomes very hard to kill such person and their physical abilities are very strong.
Note: we can also throw in various Feruchemical abilities like steel, pewter and so on, but I don't see a point in overloading one entry.

Elantrian, Stormlight, Heightenings, Feruchemical gold (inspired by the post of Drake Marshall)
Agelessness + maximum healthiness pack. Extreme glowing aura XD

Lightweaver, Allomantic copper, Feruchemical copper
Lightweavers have two memories of an event: a normal memory and a Memory (if they made one). With Copper Compounding they could have more Memories of the same event to use more than once.
Also, Allomantic copper would hide their Lightweaving from Investiture sensors, making them ultimate ninjas. Or they could just Lightweave themselves and not worry about any sensor detecting the illusion.
+ probably Sensory Upgrade Pack to augment the quality of memories

EDIT 2 (2016-07-22):

Surge of Abrasion, Feruchemical steel
Moving very fast and controlling friction? That's, like, seriously overpowered. I mean, if you can turn off friction of your whole body, you will continue to move as long as you have enough Stormlight - all that matters is initial speed and with Feruchemical speed that can be very, very high.

EDIT 3 (2016-08-25):

Lightweaver, Allomantic zinc/Allomantic brass (by Drake Marshall)
Lighweavers' actions seems to be centered around interaction with people, be it inspiring them, deceiving them or hiding from them. For all of these manipulation of emotions goes along well.

Surge of Gravity and Allomantic steel/Allomantic iron (by Drake Marshall)
While Lashing allows for more freedom (as you don't need anchors), Steelpushing/Ironpulling allows for far more maneuvrability and quick at that. I also suspect that the Lurcher technique of Pulling projectiles to their protected chest would be well augmented by creating a Reverse Lashing on that plate.

Elantrian, Feruchemical zinc, Feruchemical copper, Feruchemical steel (inspired by Ari)
Feruchemical zinc would allow for a far quicker evaluation of the situation and would help of inventing the proper sequence of Aons; Feruchemical copper would allow for a really extensive list of not only Aons and modifiers, but also many pre-prepared complex sequences; Feruchemical steel obviously allows for drawing very quickly what counteracts one of the major flaws of AonDor in combat.

Truthwatcher, Sak (death predicting bird), Allomantic electrum, Allomantic atium, Allomantic duraluminium (inspired by hoidhunter)
Seeing future pack. (Allomantic duraluminum for duralumin-burn of atium and electrum)

EDIT 4 (2017-08-29)

Stoneward Awakener
We don't know what Tension and Cohesion do exactly. We know that:

Spoiler
Quote

Cohesion involved being able to alter things at a molecular level, and his example was that you could push your hand on a table, and when you removed your hand there would still be a handprint.

and

Quote

Q:  Can you tell me something about Tension and Cohesion?
A:  I haven't actually written these magic systems yet, so they may change.  But they are--Tension is the ability to take something flexible and make it rigid. Which sounds simple, but there are so many cool things you can do with that.

Awakeners use mostly cloth and fabric in Awakening. Combined with ability to alter its flexibility/stiffness and (probably) malleability... You'd no longer be limited by the fact that you're using fabric in Awakening - you could alter it how you want at will. One moment your Awakened sleeves "grip what you must", the next moment you can parry swords with it. If you have long tassels, you could Command them to spring at enemies and then make them stiff and rigid and pierce their bodies.

The idea started when I thought of Vasher using his clothing to enhance his limbs; I thought of designing clothes which you could Awaken to form an exoskeleton around your body. Stonewarden can make armor out of it (or use them offensively like in example above). As of right now we have an Awakener wrapped in Awakened exoskeleton which can also be used offensively (tassels. Tassels everywhere), who can inhale Stormlight (boost in physical abilities + powerful regeneration) and alter the physical properties of things he Awakens.

As a Radiant, he'll also have Shardplate, which he can wrap over with the Awakened exoskeleton. For total overkill we could get two suits - one wrapped over the body, working like exoskeleton, then Shardplate over that and then the second Awakened exoskeleton with tassels for offensive.

Upgrade Awakener Pack: Feruchemical zinc, Feruchemical copper and Feruchemical steel (inspired by The One Who Connects)
Increased mental speed to come up with creative awakening targets/commands to get out of a tough situation, copperminds for storing all manner of useful information pertaining to Awakening (if you can store the mental image of something you looked at, you should be able to store the mental pictures from visualizations for Awakening or memorize Commands), Feruchemical steel is just in case you needed to quickly "make something" so it is more human-like or so it can be more useful in the situation.

Returned and Feruchemical steel, Feruchemical pewter, Feruchemical gold.
Since Divine Breath allows you to shapeshift, you can make yourself absurdly muscular and keep your muscle mass on the normal level by storing pewter. You can also make yourself faster (Denth was inhumanly fast) which you can also store in metalmind without any drawbacks.

Now, storing gold is another thing as people of Fifth Heightening cannot get sick. We've been RAFO'd on people with Fifth Heightening storing atium.

Edited by Oversleep
edit 4
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Iron Feruchemy+ Gravitation Surge: the first changes the mass and the other the gravity (intensity and direction)... Together with the famous F=m*a they are capable of push the F beyond a linear scaling and create an exponential force with a linear cost of Investiture.

Edited by Yata
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27 minutes ago, Yata said:

Iron Feruchemy+ Gravitation Surge: Once change the mass and the other the gravity (intensity and direction)... Together with the famous F=m*a they are capable of push the F beyond a linear scaling and create an exponential force with a linear cost of Investiture.

smart guy.

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14 hours ago, Yata said:

Iron Feruchemy+ Gravitation Surge: the first changes the mass and the other the gravity (intensity and direction)... Together with the famous F=m*a they are capable of push the F beyond a linear scaling and create an exponential force with a linear cost of Investiture.

Very clever, very clever. But I think that the more mass you have, the more stormlight you'd need to maintain constant acceleration. So it would be linear increase in force for linear (albeit 2 times faster) increase in Investiture.

I'm saying that bigger objects require more Stormlight, so logically if you increase your mass you need more Stormlight for one Basic Lashing.

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8 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Very clever, very clever. But I think that the more mass you have, the more stormlight you'd need to maintain constant acceleration. So it would be linear increase in force for linear (albeit 2 times faster) increase in Investiture.

I'm saying that bigger objects require more Stormlight, so logically if you increase your mass you need more Stormlight for one Basic Lashing.

Shame on me, you may be right, also if I am unsure if the Stormlight required increase with mass or with volume. Luckly I have a plan for both of them:

- Volume Scaling: My previous post is right

- Mass Scaling: Reversing the trick, you have to store a lot of weigh you may exploit a extremely cheap Lashing to travel for a very long time (the stormlight usage will be really really low)

Edited by Yata
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On 7/2/2016 at 10:18 AM, Yata said:

- Mass Scaling: Reversing the trick, you have to store a lot of weigh you may exploit a extremely cheap Lashing to travel for a very long time (the stormlight usage will be really really low)

Lashing is the Surge of Gravity and Gravity pull on everything with the same force regardless of the Mass so I don't think that mass matters

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On 2/7/2016 at 0:19 AM, Oversleep said:

Very clever, very clever. But I think that the more mass you have, the more stormlight you'd need to maintain constant acceleration. So it would be linear increase in force for linear (albeit 2 times faster) increase in Investiture.

I'm saying that bigger objects require more Stormlight, so logically if you increase your mass you need more Stormlight for one Basic Lashing.

With something it have to scale... Or a Surgebinder may lift a fortress with the same effort He lifts a Lopen

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First off, for Lift specifically, if you combine her ability and Bendalloy compounding, she would have an infinite source of stormlight.

 

On 7/7/2016 at 6:32 AM, feldi said:

Lashing is the Surge of Gravity and Gravity pull on everything with the same force regardless of the Mass so I don't think that mass matters

@feldi

The acceleration due to gravity is constant.  that would be 9.8 meters/second/second, or 9.8 m/s square.  The Force is as he said, is mass*acceleration.  The acceleration, wouldn't change, but the force would get larger. it would still move at the same speed, but it's like the difference between getting hit with a 1 lb hammer accelerating at a rate of 5 mi/h square versus getting hit with a 100 lb hammer at 5 mi/h square.  One would take more strength to lift (draining more stormlight as oversleep said), but it packs a heavier punch when moving at the same speed.

Edited by RubiksCube
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10 hours ago, RubiksCube said:

The acceleration due to gravity is constant.  that would be 9.8 meters/second/second, or 9.8 m/s square.  The Force is as he said, is mass*acceleration.  The acceleration, wouldn't change, but the force would get larger. it would still move at the same speed, but it's like the difference between getting hit with a 1 lb hammer accelerating at a rate of 5 mi/h square versus getting hit with a 100 lb hammer at 5 mi/h square.  One would take more strength to lift (draining more stormlight as oversleep said), but it packs a heavier punch when moving at the same speed.

On Earth you have right, I just want to add something because of course on the Earth we don't have yet (and maybe never) a way to alter gravity... On Roshar (for example) the gravity's acceleration is 70% of our own (depends by the Planet's mass and your distance from it) and with the Gravity Surge you may change it.

For example when Kal use 3 Lashes to an object...that object feels something like twice of Earth's gravity (and of course three times Roshar's gravity).

It's interesting to see if the Gravity Surge sets itself differently in different Shardworlds or if you need simply to use more Investiture to obtain the same effect on highter gravity planet.

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9 hours ago, Yata said:

On Earth you have right, I just want to add something because of course on the Earth we don't have yet (and maybe never) a way to alter gravity... On Roshar (for example) the gravity's acceleration is 70% of our own (depends by the Planet's mass and your distance from it) and with the Gravity Surge you may change it.

For example when Kal use 3 Lashes to an object...that object feels something like twice of Earth's gravity (and of course three times Roshar's gravity).

It's interesting to see if the Gravity Surge sets itself differently in different Shardworlds or if you need simply to use more Investiture to obtain the same effect on highter gravity planet.

Doesn't lashings work on the windrunner's spiritual connection to that planet's gravity? If I am recalling that correctly, then I do not see it being a stretch that the lashings would then adapt to the various gradations of gravity on various planets. 

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Hm... One could potentially use lashing to adapt themselves to a larger gravity ahead of time, or perhaps be on a planet with a very different gravity and still feel normal.

Anyway, back on track with the original point...

An Elantrian with stormlight. Which by the way might actually just be any Elantrian living on Roshar, because we know returned can absorb stormlight... With this you would literally look like a god to everyone with Elantrian appearance and glowing stormlight.

Taravangian's curse with feruchemical zinc. I suspect that the net result from this storage would be end positive because there is no upper limit to intellect but there is a lower limit, plus with this you can turn yourself into a genius while keeping your compassion which turns his curse into a significant blessing.

Type IV awakening and feruchemy. Being able to fuel a nightblood like entity on something like stored weight would be extremely useful I would bet.

Hemalurgy and awakening. You get somebody to give your their breath. Then you kill them with a hemalurgic spike. Then you turn them into a lifeless with the breath you stole from them. Then you spike the lifeless to give it a single superhuman blessing. Obviously an unsavory way to make an army but it's still very powerful.

Feruchemical health/heat/nourishment/sleep/strength/speed with stormlight. I'm pretty sure stormlight gives you a measure of all these things, so this would give you pretty large reserves I suspect.

Lightweaving and soothing. I suspect Shallan would be even better at infiltrating and persuading and a lot of the things she does if she was also a Soother, no? The powers work together quite well. Same basically goes for rioting.

Fabrials, ettmetal constructs, and awakening. You could create some incredible things with these three. Such a machine could have the abilities of both the metallic arts and surgebinding, playing to the relative strengths of both powers. And the machine could be awakened to accomplish a lot of tasks without any specific mechanism to drive it. With these three things, you could make a very sophisticated robot with only the most basic of mechanical proficiency, and no understanding of electronics. With these things it just gets more awesome. And if we are going to allow that you can also draw aons on these things... Pretty soon it gets pretty insane.

Elsecalling and seeking. Useful because you have particularly effective worldhopping powers (I don't think an elsecaller needs to use a perpendicularity like most worldhoppers seem to), and you can sense the powers from any world. As cosmere awareness goes, this is a pretty sweet package.

Radiant kandra. This is sort of a weird idea... But if you think about it, this might create a sort of achilles situation. A radiant is incredibly tough (I remember hearing somewhere that a radiant can only be killed by a strong blow to the head). A kandra is also incredibly tough (a lot of the things MeLaan does in BoM testify to that), but more importantly their physiology is extremely fluid. So... Wherever the radiant-kandra chooses to stash it's "brain" would be the only point where you could really damage such a being. Like achilles, attacking anywhere else would be incredibly useless, but if you hit that achilles-heel location hard enough, you could kill them.

Mistborn and shardblade. A shardblade sure beats a glass dagger, and allomancers still can't push on it. It's sort of the ideal blade for a mistborn to wield.

Edited by Drake Marshall
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I've added some of the proposed combinations. Some I didn't, especially I avoided those very specific ones, like those who could work for only one person (Nightwatcher deals, for example).
And I've added one of my own.

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1 hour ago, Nepene said:

Coinshot (steel misting) and breath. This would allow you to kill any mistborn, feruchemists, or similar things by giving them your breath. A shardblade could work well too, or a spike to recover the breaths.

But you can't give your breath at range, and at zero range any weapon it's fine. Just another thing, the Breath can't be stoled with Hemalurgy (it's not part of your Spirit Web). Therefore you may use the Breath as opening move to kill someone but you lost it

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6 hours ago, Yata said:

But you can't give your breath at range, and at zero range any weapon it's fine. Just another thing, the Breath can't be stoled with Hemalurgy (it's not part of your Spirit Web). Therefore you may use the Breath as opening move to kill someone but you lost it

The ideal is that it serves as an effective ambush that can bypass things like electrum and atium, and one that a worldhopper can purchase with cash. Having a bit of banter between mistborn and mistings is pretty common. Mistborn have fast reflexes, normal weapons even at point blank range can be dodged.

Is there a brandon quote that you can't steal breaths with a spike?

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2 hours ago, Nepene said:

The ideal is that it serves as an effective ambush that can bypass things like electrum and atium, and one that a worldhopper can purchase with cash. Having a bit of banter between mistborn and mistings is pretty common. Mistborn have fast reflexes, normal weapons even at point blank range can be dodged.

Is there a brandon quote that you can't steal breaths with a spike?

I mean you can also buy atium or electrum with cash... But you have to be metalborn for these things to work. And you can't by atium with cash in the second era scadrial (I would bet that atium is returning in the third era though).

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20 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

I mean you can also buy atium or electrum with cash... But you have to be metalborn for these things to work. And you can't by atium with cash in the second era scadrial (I would bet that atium is returning in the third era though).

I'm not sure you can really buy atium. You acquire it with the right trade contacts, sometimes. But you can definitely reliably buy breath. And later on you can't buy atium, so if a secret conspiracy had a mistborn with atium they would be hard to defeat. This would be a potential way.

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New update:
Surge of Abrasion, Feruchemical steel
Moving very fast and controlling friction? That's, like, seriously overpowered. I mean, if you can turn off friction of your whole body, you will continue to move as long as you have enough Stormlight - all that matters is initial speed and with Feruchemical speed that can be very, very high.

Also, my previous original idea which I added in previous update was:

Lightweaver, Allomantic copper, Feruchemical copper
Lightweavers have two memories of an event: a normal memory and a Memory (if they made one). With Copper Compounding they could have more Memories of the same event to use more than once.
Also, Allomantic copper would hide their Lightweaving from Investiture sensors, making them ultimate ninjas. Or they could just Lightweave themselves and not worry about any sensor detecting the illusion.

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Surge of abrasion and steelrunning is... Storming amazing. Also gravitation+abrasion might have a very similar effect. Anyway here is a handful of thoughts.

Surge of transformation and any allomancy. If you were precise enough, you could soulcast objects into the right allomantic percentages, right? You obviously couldn't soulcast a god metal, but the others are probably reasonably attainable. Maybe with the exception of aluminum because it seems to interfere with investiture... Those limitations aside, this would help anyone metalborn, especially if they happened to be offworld, since no other planet sells allomantic alloys with the same quality as Scadrial. And considering that transportation is paired with transformation if you are an elsecaller, being off world with this surge isn't so unlikely.

Surge of gravitation and steel allomancy. These abilities share some redundancies, but it strikes me that together they would give you quite a lot of control in flight. The lashings have the advantage of requiring no particular anchor to propel yourself from... Steelpushing on the other hand requires a metal anchor, but it seems like it can be done more reflexively and precisely, letting you quickly throw yourself out of the way of something or navigate something more complex. Plus steelpushing can let you deflect projectiles and launch your own, and the surge of gravitation would let you win any steelpushing match.

Surge of Cohesion and Surge of Abrasion. These two powers seem to be complimentary, even though none of the radiant orders actually have access to this pair. One lets you alter an object's friction, the other lets you make an object stick, so they are a bit like opposites. With some precision, there are a lot of tricks you could perform, like sliding along a surface and then making a sudden stop, or spraying stormlight across a floor behind you as you slide across it to instantly make it hold people.

Also... Iron compounding twinborn, while technically a violation of your rules about compounding listing, is a particularly dangerous combination. You see, it is possible in second era scadrial for somebody to naturally be born with this power... And with it, one would have the power to collapse a building without hardly any effort, because you can pull on any metals and have limitless weight to stack against surrounding objects.

Edited by Drake Marshall
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1 hour ago, Drake Marshall said:

You obviously couldn't soulcast a god metal, but the others are probably reasonably attainable. Maybe with the exception of aluminum because it seems to interfere with investiture.

Just a heads up, it is mentioned in the Stormlight Archive that they create aluminium via soulcasting. 

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