frozndevl Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) So, I'm rereading Way of Kings for the first time and having all the knowledge from the second book available makes things so much more clear. However, I just read the passage where Dalinar flashes back to the day of Recreance where the KR drop their blades and plate. I couldn't find an answer anywhere by looking here, but how does dropping their blades and plate kill the spren? It doesn't read like they did anything special other than stabbing their blades into the earth and taking off their plate. Was it the rejection of the bond that killed them, established by the screaming that Dalinar could almost hear? Edited May 31, 2016 by frozndevl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcalim Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Supposedly it was the breaking of their oaths not much to do with physical handling of there gear. Screams are of dead Spren being wielded by people who are my of the ideas or oaths of the kR. At least I am almost 100% on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) Based on Kaladin's experience with Syl it seems as if breaking the Oaths you make is what "kills" the spren by forcibly breaking the Nahel bond the Knight Radiant shares with their spren. In Dalinar's visions we see Windrunners "fly" (fall with style) so we know they still have access to the Surges which means they have not, yet, fully broken their Oaths. So, the act of dropping their shardblades and shardplate does not, necessarily, kill their spren but rather if their actions violate their Oaths then the spren is killed. I hope that helps clear things up. Oh, and we do not, yet, know why the Radiants chose to abandon their Oaths. So, I guess we will have to RAFO! edit: As noted below by Pathfinder I completely goofed on which orders were present. I apologize for the confusion and thanks to Pathfinder for catching my mistake. Edited May 31, 2016 by CaptainRyan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Based on Kaladin's experience with Syl it seems as if breaking the Oaths you make is what "kills" the spren by forcibly breaking the Nahel bond the Knight Radiant shares with their spren. We see in Dalinar's vision that the Skybreakers (the Radiants who glow blue and arrive by "flying") obviously had not broken their Oaths yet because they had access to the Surges. On the other hand, the Windrunners (the green glow) arrive by walking which means either they chose not to use the Surges or else they had already broken their Oaths to some degree. So, the act of dropping their shardblades and shardplate does not, necessarily, kill their spren but rather if their actions violate their Oaths then the spren is killed. I hope that helps clear things up. Oh, and we do not, yet, know why the Radiants chose to abandon their Oaths. So, I guess we will have to RAFO! I thought the flying group was windrunners, and the walking group was stonewards? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) I thought the flying group was windrunners, and the walking group was stonewards? The walking group consists of green and tan glowing shardplate and is announced by the scout as Windrunners and Stone Wards. Then, a bit later, blue glowing shardplate Radiants drop in from the sky. Seeing as the green ones are the Windrunners I think that only leaves the Skybreakers as flying Radiants. Source: Chapter 52 of the Way of Kings. I reread the chapter after seeing OP's question. Please feel free to correct me though if I am making a silly mistake! edit: As noted by Pathfinder, I completely goofed on the Orders. Please disregard this post. Thanks again to Pathfinder for catching this! Edited May 31, 2016 by CaptainRyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 The walking group consists of green and tan glowing shardplate and is announced by the scout as Windrunners and Stone Wards. Then, a bit later, blue glowing shardplate Radiants drop in from the sky. Seeing as the green ones are the Windrunners I think that only leaves the Skybreakers as flying Radiants. Source: Chapter 52 of the Way of Kings. I reread the chapter after seeing OP's question. Please feel free to correct me though if I am making a silly mistake! Where do you get that the green ones are windrunners though? Kaladin is a windrunner and his eyes glow blue. Green is never mentioned. please see below: Way of Kings page 729 "....the Order of the Stonewards, my lord" the still mounted scout was saying "And a large number of Windrunners. All on foot" Way of Kings page 730 As they drew closer, Dalinar could see that their Plate was unpainted, but glowed either blue or amber at the joints and across glyphs at the front, as with other Radiants he'd seen in his visions Way of Kings page 731 The Radiants slowed, falling into a trot, and then a walk. The soliders around Dalinar grew still. The leading Radiants stopped in line, immobile. Suddenly, others began to fall from the sky. They hit with the sound of rock cracking, puffs of stormlight blossoming from their figures. These all glowed blue. So the group flying are additional windrunners joining those that already walked there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) Where do you get that the green ones are windrunners though? Kaladin is a windrunner and his eyes glow blue. Green is never mentioned. please see below: Way of Kings page 729 "....the Order of the Stonewards, my lord" the still mounted scout was saying "And a large number of Windrunners. All on foot" Way of Kings page 730 As they drew closer, Dalinar could see that their Plate was unpainted, but glowed either blue or amber at the joints and across glyphs at the front, as with other Radiants he'd seen in his visions Way of Kings page 731 The Radiants slowed, falling into a trot, and then a walk. The soliders around Dalinar grew still. The leading Radiants stopped in line, immobile. Suddenly, others began to fall from the sky. They hit with the sound of rock cracking, puffs of stormlight blossoming from their figures. These all glowed blue. So the group flying are additional windrunners joining those that already walked there. You are 100% correct. Wow. I completely misread the color in my reread. I feel like one of the Ten Fools. I even opened my Kindle back up and re-reread it just now to confirm and it definitely says blue. I will edit my above post to remove confusion. Nice catch Pathfinder. Edited May 31, 2016 by CaptainRyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 You are 100% correct. Wow. I completely misread the color in my reread. I feel like a total slonze haha. I even opened my Kindle back up and re-reread it just now to confirm and it definitely says blue. I will edit my above post to remove confusion. Nice catch Pathfinder. No worries. I needed to check myself in case I missed something. As with all Sanderson's books, there is always another secret 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulcastJam Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Imagine what it would have been like to have killed your spren but still be carrying around the shard. The constant screaming... No wonder they dropped their shards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TySun Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Imagine what it would have been like to have killed your spren but still be carrying around the shard. The constant screaming... No wonder they dropped their shards. I don't think they would here the screams. Their Nahel bond is broken and I believe that is what lets them here the screams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Indeed, the act was likelysymbolic and had repercussions in the Cognitive Realm. The laying down off weapons and severing bonds was certainly simultaneous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulcastJam Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 Indeed, the act was likelysymbolic and had repercussions in the Cognitive Realm. The laying down off weapons and severing bonds was certainly simultaneous. I wouldn't say "certainly," as I think most of us are not certain of that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farnsworth Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 They probably accidentally severed the bonds by doing something to contradict their oaths first, and then dropped their weapons as a result of the screaming. By the way, would shardplate scream? Is it spren? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 They probably accidentally severed the bonds by doing something to contradict their oaths first, and then dropped their weapons as a result of the screaming. By the way, would shardplate scream? Is it spren? I am not so sure about that. Remember, some of the Windrunners flew (fell with style) in the vision so they definitely had access to their Surges still. Also, the Shardplate and Shardblade of every Radiant was said to be glowing until *after* they dropped them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) They probably accidentally severed the bonds by doing something to contradict their oaths first, and then dropped their weapons as a result of the screaming. By the way, would shardplate scream? Is it spren? It's very unlikely that Shardplate is made of (Nahel) spren in the way a Blade is. Recall that Kaladin used a Shardplate helm similarly to a cestus during the 4-vs-Adolin duel and heard not a thing from touching it. Is it possible a spren is involved in its forging? I think yes. The real question is whether a Nahel spren's "close cousins" (e.g. windspren are to honorspren) willingly change into Plate to be used, and the change is permanent. The other question to bake your noodle is: which Cognitive entity made the Oathgate locks? Shallan believes it's the same substance as a Shardblade, and so far there's only one source for that. Edited June 5, 2016 by dvoraen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozndevl Posted June 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 It's very unlikely that Shardplate is made of (Nahel) spren in the way a Blade is. Recall that Kaladin used a Shardplate helm similarly to a cestus during the 4-vs-Adolin duel and heard not a thing from touching it. Is it possible a spren is involved in its forging? I think yes. Having just read the sections where Kal was fighting Szeth, there was a passage where he was fightning. Kaladin leaped on churning boulders as they appeared, pursuing Szeth, who fell wildly, his clothing flapping. Windspren formed a halo around Kaladin, zipping in and out, spiraling, spinning around his arms and legs. I'm sure it's been stated before, but this really suggests it's the "similar" spren that make up plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farnsworth Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 But do those similar spren have a bond? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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