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The Parshendi remembered the Radiants


Stormgate

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Szeth-son-son-Vallano, Truthless of Shinovar, wore white on the day he was to kill a king. The white clothing was a Parshendi tradition, foreign to him... White clothing for a killer was a tradition among the Parshendi. Although Szeth had not asked, his masters had explained why.

White to be bold. White to not blend into the night. White to give warning.

For if you were going to assassinate a man, he was entitled to see you coming

Later, Szeth Invests with Stormlight while trying to be stealthy, and notes that Stormlight, these powers, we're not meant to be hidden.

Perhaps the Parshendi remembered the Radiants, glowing warriors who fought with honor, not assassinating in the dark, but fighting in the battlefield.

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Later, Szeth Invests with Stormlight while trying to be stealthy, and notes that Stormlight, these powers, we're not meant to be hidden.

Perhaps the Parshendi remembered the Radiants, glowing warriors who fought with honor, not assassinating in the dark, but fighting in the battlefield.

Well there is also the part where when Kaladin pulled the stormlight from the shards in their beards it got back to the parshendi council and that is when they decided they had to access the old forms. That "they" were back, and the parshendi had to counter "them". 

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I think humans manifesting the Nahel bond was the reason the Listeners turned to their gods in the first place, so they almost surely remember the Knights. They probably don't care that much about the actual organisation, but they do care about Surgebinders. They think the spren abandoned them, or something.

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Well there is also the part where when Kaladin pulled the stormlight from the shards in their beards it got back to the parshendi council and that is when they decided they had to access the old forms. That "they" were back, and the parshendi had to counter "them". 

They even explicitly said that "humans had a Surgebinder".

 

I think humans manifesting the Nahel bond was the reason the Listeners turned to their gods in the first place, so they almost surely remember the Knights. They probably don't care that much about the actual organisation, but they do care about Surgebinders. They think the spren abandoned them, or something.

It can't be abandonment, because when Galivar suggested that he was going to return their gods (spren), they killed him. I think they are afraid of the spren. Maybe they came from Odium?

I believe they said something about "spren betraying them".

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Probably in the beginning Listener bonded with Spren that now they can't (probably some unique Spren like the Rider of the Storm)

This Spren choose to bond with human and the Listener saw this as a betreyal.

Then some other Sentient Spren came and they begin to worship them... in the end this turn them with bonding in Voidform.

 

After the last Desolation they manage to remove all the voidspren for their kin....but Gavilar wanted to "call their gods" and this scared the Listener a lot and they decided to kill him.

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My thoughts is that Parshendi were native to Roshar, prior to humans coming from The Tranquiline Halls, or wherever this breed of human came from. Prior to humanity showing up, the Listeners were able to merge with the Spren that were present on the planet. When humans came and developed the Nahel bond after the spren saw that the Honor Blades were able to do, spren stopped bonding with Listeners.

 

Enter Odium and Voidspren, giving them back what they were missing.

 

I think my thoughts and Yata's are probably pretty much the same.

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Yeah but just a though... before H&C came to Roshar... on Roshar there are only pre-shattering spren and quite all of them were mindless spren like windspren.

 

I think there are some unique Spren among then, for example the Rider of the Storm and this unique spren "betrayed" the Listeners.

 

There are probably no large scale Forms of Power at that time... maybe a couple of Listeners was in symbiosis with this Great Spren and some of their functions was important for Listener's society... and this is why they feel that Spren's change as a betrayal

 

The large number of sentient Spren arrives with the Shards of Adonalsium

Edited by Yata
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I thought the Rider of the Storm was the Parshendi name for the Stormfather? I thought WoR was updated to reflect that (i.e. make sure the Parshendi always used "Rider of the Storm" in their chapters).

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I thought the Rider of the Storm was the Parshendi name for the Stormfather? I thought WoR was updated to reflect that (i.e. make sure the Parshendi always used "Rider of the Storm" in their chapters).

Well, there is a popular theory that the spren of Honor know as the Stormfather was originally a spren of Adonalsium know as the Rider Of Storms, but was converted/corrupted by Honor, and after his splintering merged with Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow, forming the Stormfather we see today.

Edited by DreamEternal
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Well, there is a popular theory that the spren of Honor know as the Stormfather was originally a spren of Adonalsium know as the Rider Of Storms, but was converted/corrupted by Honor, and after his splintering merged with Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow, forming the Stormfather we see today.

Yeah I talked about that... I formalized it some time ago... and until now I don't have any counterproof... Of course this doesn't mean it's true but at least I may be in the right direction

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Yeah I talked about that... I formalized it some time ago... and until now I don't have any counterproof... Of course this doesn't mean it's true but at least I may be in the right direction

Well here is a question, Syl is the stormfather's "daughter". She has stated she is of honor. So are you saying Syl is actually of Adonalsium, and Honor corrupted her and all other honorspren too?

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Well here is a question, Syl is the stormfather's "daughter". She has stated she is of honor. So are you saying Syl is actually of Adonalsium, and Honor corrupted her and all other honorspren too?

I personally prefer the term "converted" as it seems more aligned with Honor. And maybe Honorspren are windspren who were given extra investiture by Honour and became sapient because of that.

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I personally prefer the term "converted" as it seems more aligned with Honor. And maybe Honorspren are windspren who were given extra investiture by Honour and became sapient because of that.

Although I do not think that is the case, I really like the imagery and love the theory in how you stated it, upvote  :)

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Well here is a question, Syl is the stormfather's "daughter". She has stated she is of honor. So are you saying Syl is actually of Adonalsium, and Honor corrupted her and all other honorspren too?

Actually I don't think Syl or other Radiant Sprean are "converterted" by Adonalsium's Spren.

They may be:

- "child" of Tanavast Cognitive Shadow in the Stormfather (in a way of be "child of honor")

-  Or "child" of the power itself, In a way of every was part of Adonalsium and in some way "child of Adonalsium" and the Radiant Spren are piece of Shards... of course with this interpretation all the Splinters in the Cosmere are Stormfather's Children (also a VoidSpren).

 

In the end I am more for the first one... after all Wylde itself, talk of the Nightwatcher like "mother".

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Syl calls the Windspren her "cousins". My guess is that Honor's investiture, when he invested in Roshar, formed spren that modeled themselves after the existing spren (which are tied to the natural forces on Roshar), but with Honor's mandate guiding them, or rather portions of it. Thus, Syl is an imitation of a windspren, but because of Honor's intent, she binds and can be a Radiantspren, rather than being a nonsapient windspren.

jW

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I believe they said something about "spren betraying them".

 

You might be thinking of Jasnah? When she is discussing shadesmar with Shallon in the beginning of WoR, she says how the spren speak of the human's betraying them (I think she is referring to the original Knight's Radiant). She also says that humans created the spren.

 

What was the reason the Parshendi had Gavilar killed in the first place? Didn't it have to do with the fact he intended to re-unite the Knight's Radiant or something along those lines? It seemed clear they remembered things about that. Also, when Kaladin is glowing in WoK they often would stop their attacks and chant "Neshua Kadal" ... they seem to know what is going on and what it means.

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Gavilar was going to bring their god back, and told them, thinking they would want that.

 

 

Regarding "Rider of the Storm"

 

From http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/23702-brandon-tweaking-words-of-radiance/#entry235913


This I think has to do with the fact that it's in Eshonai's POV and the listeners call the Stormfather the Rider of Storms.

 

 

Not sure if WeiryWriter has a WoB to back that up though. But the changes are interesting, and do suggest they are different names for the same being.

Edited by Argel
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Syl calls the Windspren her "cousins". My guess is that Honor's investiture, when he invested in Roshar, formed spren that modeled themselves after the existing spren (which are tied to the natural forces on Roshar), but with Honor's mandate guiding them, or rather portions of it. Thus, Syl is an imitation of a windspren, but because of Honor's intent, she binds and can be a Radiantspren, rather than being a nonsapient windspren.

jW

Probably it wasn't a willing act...simply on Roshar with the bound between the realms less rigid the Minds forges Splinter more easy than on any other Shardworlds

This was true for the original Spren made by pre-shattering Investiture and the "new Spren" made by Shards' Investiture.

Edited by Yata
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You might be thinking of Jasnah? When she is discussing shadesmar with Shallon in the beginning of WoR, she says how the spren speak of the human's betraying them (I think she is referring to the original Knight's Radiant). She also says that humans created the spren.

 

What was the reason the Parshendi had Gavilar killed in the first place? Didn't it have to do with the fact he intended to re-unite the Knight's Radiant or something along those lines? It seemed clear they remembered things about that. Also, when Kaladin is glowing in WoK they often would stop their attacks and chant "Neshua Kadal" ... they seem to know what is going on and what it means.

Eshonai explains how "The Rider of the Storms" which is the Stormfather betrayed them. The implication is the betrayal is due to the spren abandoning the parshendi in favor of the humans because of something the spren get out of the deal. That implication is that the spren gain sapience. 

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Eshonai explains how "The Rider of the Storms" which is the Stormfather betrayed them. The implication is the betrayal is due to the spren abandoning the parshendi in favor of the humans because of something the spren get out of the deal. That implication is that the spren gain sapience. 

 

Ah, interesting. I've re-read WoK recently, but not WoR yet, so some of the details from the second book are a little fuzzy for me.

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Probably it wasn't a willing act...simply on Roshar with the bound between the realms less rigid the Minds forges Splinter more easy than on any other Shardworlds

This was true for the original Spren made by pre-shattering Investiture and the "new Spren" made by Shards' Investiture.

Yeah, it's one of those ways that magic systems form with the interaction of the planet and the Shard, usually without the Shard's conscious involvement (beyond choosing to invest in the planet). Honor could probably have influenced parts of that, but the fact that some Spren came from his investment and that they were modeled in some way after Roshar's natural forces wasn't his decision, I'd assume.

jW

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Yeah, it's one of those ways that magic systems form with the interaction of the planet and the Shard, usually without the Shard's conscious involvement (beyond choosing to invest in the planet). Honor could probably have influenced parts of that, but the fact that some Spren came from his investment and that they were modeled in some way after Roshar's natural forces wasn't his decision, I'd assume.

jW

Maybe but to me the "Spren generation" on Roshar seems a little beyond the standard ways that magic systems form.

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Maybe but to me the "Spren generation" on Roshar seems a little beyond the standard ways that magic systems form.

I suspect Adolnasium had a hand in that directly. Spren appear to be as natural on Roshar as metals on Scadrial, except in Shinovar, so there's clearly something innate and yet extraordinary, and I can only imagine Adolnasium as the cause (since we know the spren predate the arrival of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium).

jW

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