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Is Vivenna a Worldhopper?


stcapps17

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I just finished reading Warbreaker, and I want to know if Vivenna is a Worldhopper? I know that Vasher and Zahel are the same person, but it seems like Vivenna and Vasher become traveling companions at the end of Warbreaker. Does anyone know if she appears in Way of Kings or Words of Radiance? Thank you so much for the help. 

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She could be a Worldhopper. One reason we didn't see her on Roshar in WoK and WoR could be because she hasn't come yet. We know Vasher/Zahel is on Roshar, but we don't really know which series is first on the time-line.

I say "we" but I guess I mean "I".

I personally didn't see her in the books, but then again, I didn't see Vasher until after I finished both series.

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Warbreaker is before the Stormlight Archive, though we don't know exactly how long, it could be anywhere up to 300ish years, IIRC. The Coppermind has a chronology page if you're looking for more info about that, though!

Well on Nalthis there is the only way to Immortality through Magic know in the Cosmere until now. She needs "only" some thousands of Breath to became functionaly immortal (and less to have a very long lifespan)

Edited by Yata
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I know that Vasher and Zahel are the same person, but it seems like Vivenna and Vasher become traveling companions at the end of Warbreaker. Does anyone know if she appears in Way of Kings or Words of Radiance?

 

You would think she would stand out like Vasher/Zahel do, with their color-based analogies and maybe a passing glance of those Royal Locks (someone notices the same woman with different colored hair at different moments/times).  I hope that Vasher opened up to her and shared all that "Five Scholars" knowledge with her, as he doesn't seem to have any friends.  Those kind of secrets would drive a person insane after so long!

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You would think she would stand out like Vasher/Zahel do, with their color-based analogies and maybe a passing glance of those Royal Locks (someone notices the same woman with different colored hair at different moments/times).  I hope that Vasher opened up to her and shared all that "Five Scholars" knowledge with her, as he doesn't seem to have any friends.  Those kind of secrets would drive a person insane after so long!

He did have a friend! He talked to him all the time. Admittedly, he might not have been the best companion, seeing as he was an awakened black sword of death that destroys investiture and souls, whose primary focus was to destroy all evil. But, he did have a friend. :)

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He did have a friend! He talked to him all the time. Admittedly, he might not have been the best companion, seeing as he was an awakened black sword of death that destroys investiture and souls, whose primary focus was to destroy all evil. But, he did have a friend. :)

 

They clearly had a falling out though. Pretty sure Vasher got fed up with Nightblood eating all his Breaths. Kind of hard to stay immortal with him hanging around.

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I say "we" but I guess I mean "I".

 

I don't think you're alone, we didn't really see anything of Vivenna in the Stormlight books. 

 

 

She definitely started travelling with Vasher, but it's true that could have been hundreds of years before. She was always really good at controlling her locks though, so I don't think she would have changed the color unless she REALLY needed to, and we might have just missed her. I suppose it's possible she's still around, as she got over her aversion to using Breaths. Not sure she could survive indefinitely on Stormlight like Zahel does, though, without having a Divine Breath.

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I'm expecting her to be a Worldhopper, but I'm also expecting something to have happened after Warbreaker (like, in the unwritten book Nightblood) that resulted in her getting fed up with Vasher and ditching him. Spoilers for Words of Radiance:

Probably related to Vasher losing Nightblood. I actually think she wound up with Nightblood, which is how Vasher lost him, and then wound up going to Roshar, where she lost the sword. Heck, there's a chance we'll see Vivenna in the Skybreakers. I don't expect her to actually wield Nightblood, swordfighting really isn't her thing, so it'd make sense to me that, if she WAS in the Skybreakers, she'd give him to Nale.

 

I think though that chances are higher that if she's a Worldhopper, and if she ditched Vasher, she joined the Seventeenth Shard.

 

 

EDIT: Or, she's dead and her death is why Vasher lost Nightblood, like Nightblood killed her and Vasher threw him away on Roshar where he could find a nice home, but stuck around the area anyway because emo.

Edited by Nyali
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Not sure she could survive indefinitely on Stormlight like Zahel does, though, without having a Divine Breath.

The reason he needs Investiture to live is BECAUSE he's Returned. If Vivenna had enough breaths to stop aging (fifth hightening or something?), that would be enough for her to still be around.
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The reason he needs Investiture to live is BECAUSE he's Returned. If Vivenna had enough breaths to stop aging (fifth hightening or something?), that would be enough for her to still be around.

 

Oh, duh, now I look like a moron lol. I guess I didn't think about that very thoroughly. She wouldn't need a continual influx of Investiture, but that's because it doesn't deplete from her like it does from Vasher. If she has enough Breaths she could be effectively immortal, without the need to replenish it.

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Oh, duh, now I look like a moron lol. I guess I didn't think about that very thoroughly. She wouldn't need a continual influx of Investiture, but that's because it doesn't deplete from her like it does from Vasher. If she has enough Breaths she could be effectively immortal, without the need to replenish it.

it's what I meant in my previous post.

 

Until now the only true Immortality we know in detail in Cosmere is the Fifth Heightening. Surely there are other method, but we don't know enough of that.

 

PS: I forgot the Elantrian status that come with an Infinte lifespan but with stressful life.

Edited by Yata
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it's what I meant in my previous post.

 

Until now the only true Immortality we know in detail in Cosmere is the Fifth Heightening. Surely there are other method, but we don't know enough of that.

 

PS: I forgot the Elantrian status that come with an Infinte lifespan but with stressful life.

There's also Atium compounding.

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There's also Atium compounding.

Atium compounding has a hard upper limit. It does not allow for immortality but, instead, merely a longer life span.

1. Breaths

2. Elantris

3. Messing with your Connection

4. Being a dragon (?)

Those are the three sources of immortality that I know of in the Cosmere. #4 is a guess.

Edited by CaptainRyan
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Not to be picky...but I'm guessing that #3 is referring to Hoid...do we know for certain (WoB) this is how he has attained such a long life?

 

IIRC, Brandon was explaining why TLR's method of Atium compounding was not true immortality due to there being a cap on how much you can compound. Brandon then went on to say something about how if you knew how to modify your Connection to birth time/ age you could obtain functional immortality by being able to manipulate your age that way.

 

I do not have that WoB saved but I will try and find it to post here. If anyone else has a link to it that would great.

 

Oh, and as to Hoid, I have no idea if that is how Hoid is immortal though it probably is not a bad guess imo.

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are elantrians really immortal? I thought the book said "long-lived". 

They have an infinite lifespan. But in some way being a Elantrian is really stressfull in the long time and many choose to stop their lifes.

 

@Captain: I meant way to "obtain Immortality" through Magic Systems... Born Immortal is quite cheating XD ... Anyway if you puts the Dragons, you have to considerate also "be a Kandra"

Edited by Yata
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They have an infinite lifespan. But in some way being a Elantrian is really stressfull in the long time and many choose to stop their lifes.

@Captain: I meant way to "obtain Immortality" through Magic Systems... Born Immortal is quite cheating XD ... Anyway if you puts the Dragons, you have to considerate also "be a Kandra"

Be a shard ;-).
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Not sure if it makes you immortal, but Dakhor does increase your lifespan (unless you leader needs to travel a few kilometers for his appointment).

(Elantris spoilers)

Dilaf should be around 70 at the end of the book, but looked a lot younger (can't find a precise age).

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They have an infinite lifespan. But in some way being a Elantrian is really stressfull in the long time and many choose to stop their lifes.

 

@Captain: I meant way to "obtain Immortality" through Magic Systems... Born Immortal is quite cheating XD ... Anyway if you puts the Dragons, you have to considerate also "be a Kandra"

 

I thought it was more that Elantrians are very vulnerable to stress and other factors of mental health, eg. dying of broken heart syndrome? Subtle distinction I suppose, though. The only thing we hear about suicide in the books is as a direct response to becoming Hoed and being in constant pain.

 

But yeah, fifth heightening definitely seems to be the immortality option with the least downsides from what I can see.

 

Becoming a shard is actually a viable option, it is a proven way to be immortal. 

 

That's sort of like saying changing species is a great way for a cow not to get eaten, it's technically true, but that's because you've become something with an entirely different set of problems. ;) Ascending to godhood is getting around being a mortal person by subtracting out the "person" as much as the "mortal."

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