Young Bard Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Okay, I've heard several theories about this, so I'd like to compile them here. So far I've seen: The Sun is Autonomy (i.e. the consciousness of the Shard is there) The Sun is a Shard that's not Autonomy (i.e. the consciousness of the Shard is there) The Sun is a Perpendicularity. (Personally, I'm strongly against this theory - what would be the point in coming out of the Cognitive Realm into the heart of a blazing sun?) I'll provide reasons for and against each when I have time. In the meantime, have any of you got plausible theories or input? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 The Sun is a Perpendicularity. (Personally, I'm strongly against this theory - what would be the point in coming out of the Cognitive Realm into the heart of a blazing sun?) About this one, a Perpendicularity isn't there to be useful to someone, the World hoppers simply take advantage of its presence. Nothing prevent a Perpendicularity to be located where a World Hopper can't reach it (and maybe Autonomy may want exactly that). The World Hoppers may use other method to get from and to Taldain. PS: This post doesn't want to say that "The Perpendicularity is in the Sun" but just "may be on the Sun". I don't think that Autonomy has something of his Power on the Sun, but it's just an idea of mine and I haven't no proofs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuantumSpren Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 I don't think that autonomy is the sun as dayside would be dependant on him, while darkside would be autonomous. It doesn't look like his intent would only work on one side of the planet. (And there are hints that darkside is invested as well which would be odd if a shard is basically snubbing them.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurky McLurkerson Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Just throwing out the theory (of which I am not the originator) that the sun is not the shard, but that light is the focus for this world, thus the light on Darkside being magical as well. The sun being an alternate shard has been debunked as well with WoB that Autonomy is the only shard in the system. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Just throwing out the theory (of which I am not the originator) that the sun is not the shard, but that light is the focus for this world, thus the light on Darkside being magical as well. The sun being an alternate shard has been debunked as well with WoB that Autonomy is the only shard in the system. Yeah this is a possibility, I am still with "plant" as Taldain's Focus but it may be both "light" and "water" as far as we know (of course as "sand") 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurky McLurkerson Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Yeah this is a possibility, I am still with "plant" as Taldain's Focus but it may be both "light" and "water" as far as we know (of course as "sand") It could be. I had a similar thought once the nature of the "sand" was explained.. but Light seemed so much more elegant a solution, given the overall Day Side/Night Side theme. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 It could be. I had a similar thought once the nature of the "sand" was explained.. but Light seemed so much more elegant a solution, given the overall Day Side/Night Side theme. You have right, but also the "uncommon" condition of Dayside made possible just a couple of Plant-life form possible, this may be the cause of the Sand Mastery as Dayside only magic. I think on Darkside there are more "magic Plants" because they may rise a lot of different species. But of course the "plants" may be a trick and in the end as photosyntesis being may be really the light they feed the key-part 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 I don't think that autonomy is the sun as dayside would be dependant on him, while darkside would be autonomous. It doesn't look like his intent would only work on one side of the planet. (And there are hints that darkside is invested as well which would be odd if a shard is basically snubbing them.) There is a moon that the daysider's use to track the time of day due to its revolutions. The moon could reflect the sun's "magical" light to darkside. Also for some reason I feel like an aurora was mentioned, though i cannot locate it with a quick check. If there is an aurora, that is due to the magneto sphere being disturbed by solar wind. So that radiance could be magically charged from the solar wind, and the darksiders draw their magic from the aurora. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurky McLurkerson Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 I think on Darkside there are more "magic Plants" because they may rise a lot of different species. But of course the "plants" may be a trick and in the end as photosyntesis being may be really the light they feed the key-part Yeah, photosynthesis of investment is part of the "elegent" solution. Or it is something else bizarre and I am way off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuantumSpren Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 I believe there is an Aurora as well but the only mention is that it could be the Skycolors. We do not have confirmation yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Makes you wonder, if it is the plant like film on the sand that allows sand mastery, and if it is the light that fills it with investiture, would there be a way to use the light of the skycolors to propagate the sand on darkside with the film. Doesn't seem likely since Khriss said for a fact she couldn't use her skycolors on dayside, but maybe she just hasn't learned how to hack it yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurky McLurkerson Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 It seems quite sandersonian to have a constant magic system but two very different approaches to integrate/apply/use it. Like Scadrial. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 It seems quite sandersonian to have a constant magic system but two very different approaches to integrate/apply/use it. Like Scadrial. And by that extension, what happens when you get "half breeds" like twin born, or Kenton who is born of a darkside mother, and dayside father. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 And by that extension, what happens when you get "half breeds" like twin born, or Kenton who is born of a darkside mother, and dayside father. Of course we have to see the DarkSide Magic yet but maybe Kenton may develop a "perk" from the mixing of Dayside and Darkside Magic. Of course we have no proof of Kenton be able to access DarkSide Magic...but in the end he would be Connected enough to be lowest tier Darkside's Magic User 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Of course we have to see the DarkSide Magic yet but maybe Kenton may develop a "perk" from the mixing of Dayside and Darkside Magic. Of course we have no proof of Kenton be able to access DarkSide Magic...but in the end he would be Connected enough to be lowest tier Darkside's Magic User Well it was assumed he was the lowest tier sandmage because of his half blood, but he was able to prove his strength. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Well it was assumed he was the lowest tier sandmage because of his half blood, but he was able to prove his strength. Yes he was an halfblood but his father was a top tier Sand Master (also between the Mastrell)... There are people on Dayside with less compatible with Sand Mastery than Kenton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) Yes he was an halfblood but his father was a top tier Sand Master (also between the Mastrell)... There are people on Dayside with less compatible with Sand Mastery than Kenton Exactly. So by extension, it shouldn't be assumed that if he has any ability from darkside, that it would have to be paltry due to the mixed blood. to clarify, just because he has dayside blood, does not mean if he has darkside magic it has to be the lowest tier. We do not have a vector to judge strength for darkside magic, nor a definitive inclination that such would be the result of his mixed blood. Edited May 17, 2016 by Pathfinder 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 What I find interesting is that it's discussed that sand mastery is something that is learned. Granted, some people obviously have an inherent natural ability to be a more powerful sand master...but it's sort of implied that anyone could be taught to some degree. We really don't have enough info to even assume that the inherent ability is tied to genetics. The natural ability to be a powerful sand master (once taught) could have to do with something else entirely. For instance, Kenton's father and Drile, two of the most powerful sand masters we see, are both very arrogant people. While I'm not positing this as my actual belief, just a possibility, maybe raw power with sand mastery is tied to an inherently egotistic personality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Savant Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 I could actually see this as having some truth to it, seeing as you have to be so arrogant that you'll risk losing your powers completely in order to gain a small amount more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 I could actually see this as having some truth to it, seeing as you have to be so arrogant that you'll risk losing your powers completely in order to gain a small amount more. Maybe you have right but I can't call the extra power from Overmastery "small amount". And in the end we can't even know if there is a real risk to lose power through Overmastery or if it is simply a lie to protect Mastrell's Supremacy, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 What I find interesting is that it's discussed that sand mastery is something that is learned. Granted, some people obviously have an inherent natural ability to be a more powerful sand master...but it's sort of implied that anyone could be taught to some degree. We really don't have enough info to even assume that the inherent ability is tied to genetics. The natural ability to be a powerful sand master (once taught) could have to do with something else entirely. For instance, Kenton's father and Drile, two of the most powerful sand masters we see, are both very arrogant people. While I'm not positing this as my actual belief, just a possibility, maybe raw power with sand mastery is tied to an inherently egotistic personality. I dunno. When Khriss is viewing the class without Kenton's knowledge, she comments how the maester teaches the class how to put sand underneath an object to lift it up. As she watches, she notices how one of the students is able to pick up the object from the top which is harder, and the student has a self satisfied smirk. That student is still far and away less powerful than Drile and Kenton's father, yet simply because he is more powerful than those around him, he acts arrogant. Kenton comments on numerous occasions how the whole structure of the Diem is built on strength. If you are stronger than someone, they are your subordinate and have to do whatever you say. This is further exemplified by the old tradition of trial by combat. The way it is set up, lends it to the stronger wins. I don't actually have to be right, as long as I kill you, my might makes right. Finally Elorin is pretty high in the maesters. I believe he could have attained an even higher rank but he chose not to. He was not arrogant. I believe it is more the culture than the power itself that resulted in the arrogance. But that is my own take on it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter Posted May 27, 2016 Report Share Posted May 27, 2016 Well totally...I wasn't actually suggesting that egotism was the determining factor for the natural strength of a sand master (Kenton is pretty arrogant, at least in his youth) I was merely giving an example of a possible alternative to "strength in sand mastery is tied to genetics." I'm also not saying that it is definitely NOT tied to genetics, just that we don't really have any reason to be sure one way or another. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 27, 2016 Report Share Posted May 27, 2016 Ah my misunderstanding. Sorry! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter Posted May 28, 2016 Report Share Posted May 28, 2016 Oh...certainly no harm done...I'm always worried that (since text does not convey tone) one of my responses will be misunderstood as being angry or indignant...if you ever see any reply from me in the future it's never upset...the worst you can expect is sarcastic, or perhaps deliberately obtuse (strictly for egging on the easily offended). I realize that my example of egotism being tied to power is very difficult to prove, because the powerful will undoubtedly be full of themselves...are they full of themselves because they are powerful, or powerful because they are full of themselves??? Poor choice on my part. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Well either way I do agree with you that something has to be going on. The beginning implies it is genetic due to Kenton's father and other maestrells being disappointed that none of his children having a strong talent for sand mastery. They even imply it is due to Kenton's mother being a darksider so that the mixed blood is the supposed cause. Yet Kenton does imply later they can be created/trained. You never assume just because the father is an amazing archer, that the son will have a natural talent for it having never picked up a bow before. So what is the cause then? So many mysteries! lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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