Autonomy the Two Headed God

[Pathfinder]

So something popped in my head as I am re-reading White Sand. Ais is musing about Kenton and is there any chance of salvation for the Sand Master who uses an "evil" art, yet seems good. He says to himself:

 

"it was a basis of Ker'reen philosophy that the world was made up of opposites, and God was He in whom opposites could coexist without destroying one another. he was darkness and light, for He had created both. he was good and evil, cold and heat, love and hatred. He could condemn the sandmasters, yet have mercy for them at the same time. The doctrine of Coexistent Contradiction was a major part of Kershtian belief system."

 

Ais is a trackt constantly in control in his emotions, and extremely effective. Except when his rage overwhelms him and turns him into a foaming, incoherent, brute. Eric at the start of the story is lackadaisical, and fears responsibility as it leads to combat, conflict and death of those he commands, yet he ends up being exactly that. Kenton spent his whole life rebelling, only to realize it is quite adept at commanding. Baon, the frank, and up front companion, is a duplicitous spy, and so on.

 

A lot of places on this forum people go back and forth on how Autonomy couldn't be driving Bleeder because attacking another planet, or working with another shard, or using an organization is contrary to the idea of autonomy. That Autonomy would hate the sandmasters. The best reasoning I could come up with is maybe the vessel of Autonomy to begin with had multiple personality disorder. Even if this doesn't make sense, something about Autonomy, despite its intent, allows it to hold numerous.....best word I can come up with is views?

 

So basically this is not so much a theory as something I realized in the book, and wonder what are peoples thoughts in view of this new piece of information. 

 

edit: another possibility is this religion could have been a prophesy of harmony?

Edited May 5, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Windrunner Savant]

I do think it would be cool to have broken minded Shard. I think the clash with the Shard's intent would be... interesting!

[Stormgate]

Honor has ten sub-Intents, demonstrated by the different orders of Knight Radiant. Perhaps Autonomy similarly has sub-Intents.

[Pathfinder]

Honor has ten sub-Intents, demonstrated by the different orders of Knight Radiant. Perhaps Autonomy similarly has sub-Intents.

Good point, so upvote. However, I don't know. All the 10 sub-intents can be argued as different forms of honor. Meanwhile Autonomy seems contradictory, as is even stated in the religious belief of possibly his main worshipers. Like day and night, light and dark, good and evil. Opposites existing together despite their contradictory natures. 

[Master Elodin]

Good point, so upvote. However, I don't know. All the 10 sub-intents can be argued as different forms of honor. Meanwhile Autonomy seems contradictory, as is even stated in the religious belief of possibly his main worshipers. Like day and night, light and dark, good and evil. Opposites existing together despite their contradictory natures.

Ya see?

[Lurky McLurkerson]

To wax philosophical: Autonomy is the essence of self-government. The ability to decide for oneself. Absolute autonomy could bring with it the acceptance of oneself in all its gory details. If "Good" and "Bad" are viewed as external influences, Autonomy might rebel against such labels and influences.

 

Autonomy might also rebel against nigh omnipotent shards mandating/directing/influencing lives. Given the WoB about Autonomy having some cause in common with Odium, might this not e where this common ground is found? In breaking the shackles of the shards?

[Pathfinder]

To wax philosophical: Autonomy is the essence of self-government. The ability to decide for oneself. Absolute autonomy could bring with it the acceptance of oneself in all its gory details. If "Good" and "Bad" are viewed as external influences, Autonomy might rebel against such labels and influences.

 

Autonomy might also rebel against nigh omnipotent shards mandating/directing/influencing lives. Given the WoB about Autonomy having some cause in common with Odium, might this not e where this common ground is found? In breaking the shackles of the shards?

True, except that the kershtian religion teaches that only the sand lord is the final adjudicator, and to surrender oneself to his control. Now that religion may have it wrong, or there could be a kernal of truth muddied up over the years. Or in a way that is the essence of self governance you speak of. Allowing people to either chose to have a rigid religion (kershtian), a loose one (the pagan one we aren't told much of), or none at all (the sand masters) and letting the strong (the resulting dominant religion) survive. 

 

The problem with this, is that the Kershtian religion at least teaches that the Sand Lord dictates everything. Anything bad happens? Sand Lord sent it because he is pissed at you. Anything good happens? Sand Lord sent it because he is happy with you. If you aren't Kershtian, you aren't allowed in the afterlife in the Sand Lord's graces. It is only the recent Akar that is allowing Lossanders and others not born Kershtian, to join and thus have an afterlife. This sounds very much to me like a shard mandating, influencing and controlling lives. Then again, like I said in the previous paragraph, maybe the Kershtian religion "got it all wrong", and the point of White Sand the trilogy is for Kenton to take over the Sand Masters and set the record straight. Or since it was hinted briefly there existed a religion with a pantheon, perhaps that is the Trell we know of, where the Sand Lord is Nalt who is full of hubris and demanding of worship, while Trell is worshiped secretly. But then there is the fact that we get the POV of Ais who is a devout worshiper and we never hear in his head him mention any other deity over the Sand Lord. Gah! Need more info! lol.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Lurky McLurkerson]

That's always been my issue with Autonomy as Sand Lord. I may just have the concept of Autonomy wrong, but the religion just seems contrary to everything that comes to mind re:Autonomy. IMHO, Autonomy does little to influence others other than perhaps rewarding/empowering those who jive with his essence. But yes... I want more info. Must buy all the graphic novels and make sure we get the rest of the intended series.

[hoidhunter]

Please excuse my wild, unfounded speculation...but...

 

While reading through White Sands (again) a though occurred to me, and this thread was the perfect place to address the idea:

 

What if, at the time White Sands takes place, the current vessel on the planet is actually holding two separate shards? Autonomy being one, and a second being something that seems to contradict that intent.  As other posters have pointed out, duality is a really important part of this story.  As was also pointed out by an earlier poster, the philosophic idea that the sand lord is the only place where contradictory natures can exist is very reminiscent of Harmony (preservation and ruin coexisting in one entity).  I realize that there are problems with this theory...but I just thought I would put it out there and let the sharders run with it.

[Lurky McLurkerson]

I suppose it could happen if it turns out there is a way to release a shard once having taken it up, as it seems implicit that Bavadin is still kicking at the time of the Letter (though not guaranteed).

 

I think the bigger challenge would be picking up a shard if you have been holding another for a long period of time. It would seem to me that shardic intent/influence would make it hard to willingly pick up an opposing force. Sazed pulls it off because he picks up both at once, basically.

[hoidhunter]

Yeah...I know I'm grasping at straws here...I'm just trying to reconcile the whole "the shard on Taldain is autonomy" with, "the sand lord wants people to be in total control."  

 

I'm going to state the obvious, and say that there is something a lot bigger going on that I'm just not seeing (There's always another secret)

[Pathfinder]

Yeah it just keeps coming back to there is way too much information we just do not know. Which sucks, because that is as of the first book, and we won't even finish the first book till all three graphic novels are released. So we could be in for a long wait 

[Stormgate]

I'm planning on taking a hiatus from Sanderson and the Shard for two years. When I get back, I will probably have Oathbringer to read, and maybe some other stuff.

[KidWayne]

Oftentimes, your autonomy/freedom inhibits or decreases my autonomy/freedom. This is especially true in a world of limited resources. That is why we have laws that attempt to find the most equitable balance between prohibitions and rights.

So, perhaps that is the source of autonomy's apparent contradictions?

[Pathfinder]

Oftentimes, your autonomy/freedom inhibits or decreases my autonomy/freedom. This is especially true in a world of limited resources. That is why we have laws that attempt to find the most equitable balance between prohibitions and rights.

So, perhaps that is the source of autonomy's apparent contradictions?

According to the Kershtian belief, everything about the Sand Lord is contradictions. Which is also contradictory, because you are supposed to follow his rules/laws to the letter 

[Lirins hand]

Do we have confirmation there is only one shard on Taldain?  What if the contradictions are a second shard, perhaps the infamous "survive in hiding" shard.  Could it be there were two shards on Taldain at this time but with Bavadin's intent taking over more and more, the second shard chose/was forced to leave?  

It feels like there is more than one big force at work here and the Nalt vs.Trell idea seems like it would fit.  One shard large and in charge but a second hiding and surviving, acting where the other won't see it/catch it.  Until something forces it's hand and it leaves for safer surroundings.  The one bright eye (dayside) vs. the many myriad small eyes (darkside).  Could also explain why there might be a different investment type between the white sand and skycolors.

[hoidhunter]

Yeah...there is a WoB out there on theoryland somewhere that confirms that there is only one shard at work on Taldain...at least...as of White Sands.

 

Someone even tried to get a little tricky and asked if there was a second shard somewhere in the solar system...the answers was no.