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Renarin is going to be ridiculously powerful someday.


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Just finished the two Stormlight books for the second time. The way both Zahel and Kaladin see potential in him, plus he is a surgebinder, plus he is smart, and finally he wants to help so bad. Its not a theory just my prediction. This kid is going to be a gangster.

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To be honest, Zahel did not technically see potential in Renarin. He merely agrees to train him because Adolin, his former pupil, blackmailed him to do it. He was glad Renarin didn't turn out to be yet another arrogant smart-mouth kid as it didn't seem as if he actually wanted to train someone else, much less a difficult someone. He then says to Kaladin he'll do fine, but I feel it was more with respect to his attitude than his skills. In other words, Renarin is eager, but he seems to lack the physical aptitudes to truly succeed at it. It would thus surprise me greatly if Zahel indeed honestly thought he would turn him into a worthy fighter. 

 

As for Kaladin, as far as I can remember, there is nothing in his POV which indicates he sees any particular potential in Renarin. It seems to me as he mostly sees is a weak kid who reminds him of this brother, someone he needs to protect, someone who is naturally worthy of his protection. Kaladin has always have a think with teenage boys looking physically weak: it is them he sought to protect more than anyone else back when he was in Amaram's army. So when Renarin walks in, he reminds him of those, so he is automatically sympathetic to him. It is the... Kaladin bias. The one he has struggled to overcome in WoR. What does he truly sees in Renarin? I am unsure, but he questions the relevance of training Renarin in his POV, thinking the Shards are wasted on him and observing the kid was not doing very well with his training.

 

I thus wouldn't say both Kaladin and Zahel see a hidden potential in Renarin. I personally think they took up to him mostly because he is a nice kid who was keen to obey and to please without arguing about it.  

 

This being said, Renarin is a Truthwatcher which means he has room to grow into a more powerful individual. How powerful? I personally cannot say, but it is safe to assume he will never be a warrior-kind of Radiant (though power does not always equal physical prowess). He is considered smart, but he has not done much, yet, to truly demonstrate it.

 

In any advent, Renarin's growth is likely to take a very, very long time as he isn't set to play a major role until the second half of SA.

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Well... the only other ability we've witnessed in the cosmere that allowed users to see the future was considered "OP" even in-world.

 

So maybe crazy combat-yes-I-win potential.

And we may add to him the illusion power of a Lightwever

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I disagree he has showm time and again that he can't handle the stress of combat. Not everyone is cut out for battle. He might be important but I think it would make more sense to not have the complete turn around from being a unbloodyed nerd to bad chull warrior

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I disagree he has showm time and again that he can't handle the stress of combat. Not everyone is cut out for battle. He might be important but I think it would make more sense to not have the complete turn around from being a unbloodyed nerd to bad chull warrior

 

I wouldn't say Renarin is incapable of handling stress in combat: I would say he is rather good at it. He doesn't accomplish much, but he doesn't panic nor gives up nor runs away screaming. He tries to hold his own, which doesn't achieve much, but his nerves, to the very least, hold on.

 

His problems lie with the fact he tries to pursue a path which isn't for him: not everyone is skilled at armed combat.

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I wouldn't say Renarin is incapable of handling stress in combat: I would say he is rather good at it. He doesn't accomplish much, but he doesn't panic nor gives up nor runs away screaming. He tries to hold his own, which doesn't achieve much, but his nerves, to the very least, hold on.

 

His problems lie with the fact he tries to pursue a path which isn't for him: not everyone is skilled at armed combat.

Agreed. The situations we see him do particularly poorly in combat had to do with him thinking he was insane because of the screaming shardblade. I doubt he will become a warrior in the following books, but he will likely still be dangerous as all hell.

The kid is brave though.

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In case you guys don't know, I am almost positive that Brandon has stated that Renarin will be a main POV in the back 5 books.  

 

So yes, I think it is very likely that over the course of time he will grow to be quite the powerful warrior, tactician, leader, and gangster.  

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I mentioned that up above. And I hope he does not become a combat monster, at least not the way to seem to be hoping. We have Kaladin for that. I'm hoping Renarin is more ... thoughtful.

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So...one little thing that has always bugged me a, and maybe I'm just reading into it too much, or misunderstanding what is going on...

 

But in the oathgate schene with Shallan..."He screamed a pleading cry, then stood and cracked something against the wall. A rock? Where had he gotten it?"  Why would Shallan be so confused about where Renarin got a rock?

 

Again...maybe I'm misunderstanding what is going on...but does Renarin have the ability to create, or grow rock?

 

So far the only two other orders of radiant we have seen with an overlapping surge is Lightweavers and Elsecallers using the surge of Transformation...which seems to do the same basic thing.  However, Renarin has Illumination and progression, and can apparently see the future...which I can only imagine is a different way of using illumination.  I'm wondering if his surge of progression works differently as well, instead of growing organic matter, if he can grow inorganic matter?  Thoughts?

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Judging by the the Surges of Illumination and Progression and what we know at the moment about the extent of these abilities, I think this is the only order that doesn't have great raw fighting advantage in a battle.

 

Brandon has WoB that one surge in two different orders works almost the same and that there is something little extra. That said, I don't think his Progression will work way more different than Lift's and I bet the difference of his Illumination would be that he doesn't have to draw/Memory anything, but use some other way of his. And about that little extra, I bet again that it's his 'seeing'.

 

Renarin will be a leader, he has been foreshadowed as one in my own opinion. Maybe king? He did insist going to the lower class(Bridge Four) to study, something Nohadon did in a way, to dress as a beggar and walk through the people to educate himself about all social classes. /that last part was such a stretch, probably should ignore it at the moment/

 

I don't know, for all that could happen, he can become a traveling monk that preaches 'Let the sticks be sticks.' But I don't think he'll be a great warrior.

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Judging by the the Surges of Illumination and Progression and what we know at the moment about the extent of these abilities, I think this is the only order that doesn't have great raw fighting advantage in a battle.

 

Brandon has WoB that one surge in two different orders works almost the same and that there is something little extra. That said, I don't think his Progression will work way more different than Lift's and I bet the difference of his Illumination would be that he doesn't have to draw/Memory anything, but use some other way of his. And about that little extra, I bet again that it's his 'seeing'.

 

Renarin will be a leader, he has been foreshadowed as one in my own opinion. Maybe king? He did insist going to the lower class(Bridge Four) to study, something Nohadon did in a way, to dress as a beggar and walk through the people to educate himself about all social classes. /that last part was such a stretch, probably should ignore it at the moment/

 

I don't know, for all that could happen, he can become a traveling monk that preaches 'Let the sticks be sticks.' But I don't think he'll be a great warrior.

Can I see that WoB? The only one similar to that I have seen was Brandon saying that Sky breakers using gravitation to fly will look very similar. That definitly does not mean that all surges for all orders work nearly the same. I do agree that either way, his surges won't give him extraordinary fighting capabilities, but his shardblade and plate, as well as stormlight probably will give him a big advantage in fights.

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There's a quote by Patrick Rothfuss that may be applicable:

“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”

I would say Renarin counts as a gentle man. The ramifications are obvious.

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There's a quote by Patrick Rothfuss that may be applicable:

“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”

I would say Renarin counts as a gentle man. The ramifications are obvious.

Well, he is very close to the throne of the most powerful nation in the world, is one of the people the leader of the New Radiants trusts the most, and is intelligent and rational when he is out of the fighting itself. Oh, and he sees the future.

I don't see why Renarin needs any combat prowess to be very important in the future. He just needs more self-esteem than his current borderline death-seeking levels.

Edited by DreamEternal
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Renarin will be a brilliant tactician.  I think this will be his role as a Knight Radiant.  I think that using his surges, he will be able to "see" many different battlefield variables that others can't see or consider.  I think his progression surge will then allow him to calculate the most likely path all of those variable will take throughout the course of battle and war.

 

I believe Renarin will eventually grow as a Radiant who becomes an absolute master strategist and tactician.  While maybe Truthwatchers were likely never the fighter-types primarily, I feel that Renarin has an eagerness to learn fighting as best as he can.  His history of being denied the chance to fight and grow as a warrior will probably drive him more than usual to become physically proficient as a fighter. Maybe not on the level of the Kaladins of the world... but I'm betting still more so than any Truthwatcher in history.  His eagerness to join battle, fight, and grow in skill has been one of the main focuses of his character.

 

As he progresses in skill and understanding of fighting... i believe this will only increase his abilities as a master tactician (increasing the number of variables he understands).  I think that the more variables a Truthwatcher can take in and calculate, the more accurate the truths they will see.  ...and therefore the more accurate their strategies and counter-strategies can be in war.  I believe this is Renarin's power.  I think he will eventually develop into a Truthwatcher so strong that no one on Roshar can outthink him.

 

Gangster indeed.

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Renarin will be a brilliant tactician.  I think this will be his role as a Knight Radiant.  I think that using his surges, he will be able to "see" many different battlefield variables that others can't see or consider.  I think his progression surge will then allow him to calculate the most likely path all of those variable will take throughout the course of battle and war.

 

I believe Renarin will eventually grow as a Radiant who becomes an absolute master strategist and tactician.  While maybe Truthwatchers were likely never the fighter-types primarily, I feel that Renarin has an eagerness to learn fighting as best as he can.  His history of being denied the chance to fight and grow as a warrior will probably drive him more than usual to become physically proficient as a fighter. Maybe not on the level of the Kaladins of the world... but I'm betting still more so than any Truthwatcher in history.  His eagerness to join battle, fight, and grow in skill has been one of the main focuses of his character.

 

As he progresses in skill and understanding of fighting... i believe this will only increase his abilities as a master tactician (increasing the number of variables he understands).  I think that the more variables a Truthwatcher can take in and calculate, the more accurate the truths they will see.  ...and therefore the more accurate their strategies and counter-strategies can be in war.  I believe this is Renarin's power.  I think he will eventually develop into a Truthwatcher so strong that no one on Roshar can outthink him.

 

Gangster indeed.

 

I disagree. To become a brilliant tactician, you first need some field experience which Renarin is never going to get due to his inability to hold his own in a fight. Theory is just theory and nobody becomes brilliant at practical applications without dirtying their hands first. It would be a terrible plot twist to have Renarin suddenly become this masterful battle tactician considering the fact he never once took part into any battles. It just isn't plausible. One can have aptitude, but without field experience it isn't worth much.

 

Whatever it is Renarin becomes, it won't involve war or battle which is just fine by me. Not everyone needs to be tied in to the armed combat and their world are going to need seer and scholars if they are to survive.

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Well, he has been practicing with Vashar and Kaladin (well, at least Bridge 4). Still not quite the same as in the field experience, but a lot closer than just learning abut theory.

 

Four weeks of practicing doesn't substitute for real field experience within real-life battles. Besides, all Renarin did with Vasher was practice the 10 stances and try to learn (very slowly) to use his Plate while all he did with Kaladin is stay still holding a spear and wash pots.

 

I thus do not consider Renarin has the making of a war tactician which doesn't mean he doesn't have other uses nor other qualities, he is just not a war leader.

 

Edit: Skills Renarin do possess:

 

Phenomenal memory, I suspect Renarin has the capacity to memorize large sets of data as evidenced by his keen knowledge of wines. It also is in-sync with autism which is often paired with the capacity to digest significant amount of data on precises subject. With this particular skill, Renarin could end up being a live dictionary, capable of finding out random pieces of information nobody saw fit to even consider. 

 

An attention to details, this one is less obvious, but Renarin is seen spending quite a deal of time observing tiny thinks as evidenced his level of attention on fabrials and his nature which suggest a more thoughtful individual.

 

Capacities as a facilitator and a mediator, a role he naturally endorse within his own family unit, finding ways to calm down internal fights by bringing forth solutions capable of pleasing both sides. This may be where more political Renarin may head: negotiation, facilitation and mediation all appear as roles he could come to excel at. His capacity to see the future could also be put to great use in one of these roles.

 

A calm rational personality capable of navigating through situations without jumping to the roof. Renarin is seen as the calming agent in his family, serving to keep his brother emotions in check: somehow he has a soothing effect on him. 

 

If combine all of this skills together, I'd say future paths for Renarin would involve any task requiring calm rational analytic capacities, a great attention to details, an ability to focus on small apparently insignificant things, a large knowledge of random facts. 

 

Military leader would require a different kind of skill set such as decisiveness, speed of thought and the capacity to see the larger picture.

Edited by maxal
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Four weeks of practicing doesn't substitute for real field experience within real-life battles. Besides, all Renarin did with Vasher was practice the 10 stances and try to learn (very slowly) to use his Plate while all he did with Kaladin is stay still holding a spear and wash pots.

 

I thus do not consider Renarin has the making of a war tactician which doesn't mean he doesn't have other uses nor other qualities, he is just not a war leader.

 

Edit: Skills Renarin do possess:

 

Phenomenal memory, I suspect Renarin has the capacity to memorize large sets of data as evidenced by his keen knowledge of wines. It also is in-sync with autism which is often paired with the capacity to digest significant amount of data on precises subject. With this particular skill, Renarin could end up being a live dictionary, capable of finding out random pieces of information nobody saw fit to even consider. 

 

An attention to details, this one is less obvious, but Renarin is seen spending quite a deal of time observing tiny thinks as evidenced his level of attention on fabrials and his nature which suggest a more thoughtful individual.

 

Capacities as a facilitator and a mediator, a role he naturally endorse within his own family unit, finding ways to calm down internal fights by bringing forth solutions capable of pleasing both sides. This may be where more political Renarin may head: negotiation, facilitation and mediation all appear as roles he could come to excel at. His capacity to see the future could also be put to great use in one of these roles.

 

A calm rational personality capable of navigating through situations without jumping to the roof. Renarin is seen as the calming agent in his family, serving to keep his brother emotions in check: somehow he has a soothing effect on him. 

 

If combine all of this skills together, I'd say future paths for Renarin would involve any task requiring calm rational analytic capacities, a great attention to details, an ability to focus on small apparently insignificant things, a large knowledge of random facts. 

 

Military leader would require a different kind of skill set such as decisiveness, speed of thought and the capacity to see the larger picture.

Maybe not a tactical leader like you said, but I can easily see him being something like a lead intelligence officer or something to that nature. A compiler of info from all sources, from assassins to scouts to generals.

And maybe, if he has enough time and the right teachers, he could learn enough to become a true tactician. Which, if it happens properly, and isn't rushed, could be a great arc to read.

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I disagree. To become a brilliant tactician, you first need some field experience which Renarin is never going to get due to his inability to hold his own in a fight. Theory is just theory and nobody becomes brilliant at practical applications without dirtying their hands first. It would be a terrible plot twist to have Renarin suddenly become this masterful battle tactician considering the fact he never once took part into any battles. It just isn't plausible. One can have aptitude, but without field experience it isn't worth much.

 

 

This is only true concerning regular human tacticians. We're talking about someone who can supernaturally see possible futures with certainty. I think that would lend itself to a pretty good substitute for experience.

Edited by The Invested Beard
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