A war between Scadrial (era 2) and Roshar

[CaptainRyan]

Sorry to say but I think Inquisitors would destroy Shardbearers. They have mobility and range on their side. Shardbearers vs. Mistings could work I suppose, but there are way more Mistings than there are Shardbearers.

 

Inquisitors certainly have range but they would not have duralumin so I do not think they could break Plate from a distance. If the Shardbearer carried a big wooden shield to protect themselves from coin shots etc then the Inquisitor would, hopefully, be forced to engage at close range and then it would be a good fight eh?

[Voidus]

Inquisitors certainly have range but they would not have duralumin so I do not think they could break Plate from a distance. If the Shardbearer carried a big wooden shield to protect themselves from coin shots etc then the Inquisitor would, hopefully, be forced to engage at close range and then it would be a good fight eh?

Close range would probably be pretty boring actually, either the Inquisitor has speed in which case they instantly win, or they don't in which case they get killed pretty quickly. Or they have Atium in which case, again they instantly win.

If they got coins embedded in the shield that just gives the Inquisitor something to push/pull on, pinning them, shoving them off balance, etc.

[IndigoAjah]

Important question: healing comparison of Stormlight (normal Stormlight, not regrowth) vs Ferruchemical gold. We know compounding gold can protect you from ANY injury (see Miles, see TLR surviving beheadings, multiple) and pretty amazing healing when just used without compounding (see Inquisitors healing). We know Stormlight can heal severe wounds, and that swearing a new Oath gives a super boost that healed a very badly hurt, even dying, Kaladin. We know Stormlight can heal Shardblade injuries. Can Gold heal the same?

[CaptainRyan]

Close range would probably be pretty boring actually, either the Inquisitor has speed in which case they instantly win, or they don't in which case they get killed pretty quickly. Or they have Atium in which case, again they instantly win.

If they got coins embedded in the shield that just gives the Inquisitor something to push/pull on, pinning them, shoving them off balance, etc.

 

True, except this is based on my made-up scenario of the Final Empire Inquisitors.   They do not have F Steel so they cannot move super fast. Atium they *might* have which would be super disappointing unless, magically, Shardplate was immune to Atium? Ah well, I guess there just is not a way to make this a good match up.

[CaptainRyan]

Important question: healing comparison of Stormlight (normal Stormlight, not regrowth) vs Ferruchemical gold. We know compounding gold can protect you from ANY injury (see Miles, see TLR surviving beheadings, multiple) and pretty amazing healing when just used without compounding (see Inquisitors healing). We know Stormlight can heal severe wounds, and that swearing a new Oath gives a super boost that healed a very badly hurt, even dying, Kaladin. We know Stormlight can heal Shardblade injuries. Can Gold heal the same?

 

I do not know the canon answer to that but, barring a WoB or an in-book scenario contradicting me, I would say that yes, F Gold could heal a shardblade wound if you had enough stored.

 

edit: Apologies for the double post. I wrote the first one in response to Voidus before I saw IndigoAjah's ( I JUST REALIZED YOUR NAME IS A WOT REFERENCE AHHHH I AM SO SLOW) post.

Edited April 1, 2016 by CaptainRyan

[Voidus]

 

Important question: healing comparison of Stormlight (normal Stormlight, not regrowth) vs Ferruchemical gold. We know compounding gold can protect you from ANY injury (see Miles, see TLR surviving beheadings, multiple) and pretty amazing healing when just used without compounding (see Inquisitors healing). We know Stormlight can heal severe wounds, and that swearing a new Oath gives a super boost that healed a very badly hurt, even dying, Kaladin. We know Stormlight can heal Shardblade injuries. Can Gold heal the same?

Yup, gold can heal spiritual injuries just fine.

True, except this is based on my made-up scenario of the Final Empire Inquisitors.    They do not have F Steel so they cannot move super fast. Atium they *might* have which would be super disappointing unless, magically, Shardplate was immune to Atium? Ah well, I guess there just is not a way to make this a good match up.

I believe some still had it, Marsh did even before he got a bunch of cool new spikes.
Atium they almost certainly had, TLR had plenty of it and they were allomancer hunters.

EDIT: Fortunately the double post carried onto a new page so no harm done

[IndigoAjah]

Another side point, entirely supposition, based on another thread I started because I asked myself this very question.

Say Vin is on Roshar. Would spren, you think, consider bonding her? Would they care about sides in this war?

I think that certain Allomancers would be candidates for Radiancy and would be able to be bonded given their cracked souls and continued trauma, but I do suspect in this very hypothetical situation the Spren would side with their Shard and planet and thus not bond Allomancers. It does make an interesting extra angle, though.

Rosharians could spike themselves, if they learnt how, though that might just allow Harmony to control them (if they went for more than 1). They would also be able to use the medallions if they captured one

And yep, it's a WOT reference and my old Wotmania name for anyone who was once on there.

Edited April 1, 2016 by IndigoAjah

[Voidus]

Another side point, entirely supposition, based on another thread I started because I asked myself this very question.

Say Vin is on Roshar. Would spren, you think, consider bonding her? Would they care about sides in this war?

I think that certain Allomancers would be candidates for Radiancy and would be able to be bonded given their cracked souls and continued trauma, but I do suspect in this very hypothetical situation the Spren would side with their Shard and planet and thus not bond Allomancers. It does make an interesting extra angle, though.

Rosharians could spike themselves, if they learnt how, though that might just allow Harmony to control them (if they went for more than 1). They would also be able to use the medallions if they captured one

I'm actually not entirely sure they could use medallions, we're still not entirely clear on how they work and part of it might require a connections to Scadrial. Given how much genetics has to do with Scadrian magic I'd say it's a definite possibility.

Spikes would work, though I don't see any way for them to learn how unless an Inquisitor defected for some reason.

[CaptainRyan]

I believe some still had it, Marsh did even before he got a bunch of cool new spikes.

Atium they almost certainly had, TLR had plenty of it and they were allomancer hunters.

 

EDIT: Fortunately the double post carried onto a new page so no harm done

 

Oh good! Saved by a new page!

 

Seriously? They had F Steel? Ugh! Brandon is making this soooo hard. He probably did this on purpose - I can see him now gleefully writing in these little bits that ruin (see what I did there?!) any potential fan-fic multi-world fight!

 

Ok ok, last try! What if we took the Final Empire Scadrial versus pre-Recreance Roshar? There are hundreds, if not thousands, of Knight Radiants plus a standing, trained army on Roshar to battle the ~20 Inquisitors and all of the Mistings/Mistborn nobles! Eh? That sounds like it has potential no? And remember, TLR is too focused on the Well to waste time fighting Rosharans!   

[Voidus]

Oh good! Saved by a new page!

 

Seriously? They had F Steel? Ugh! Brandon is making this soooo hard. He probably did this on purpose - I can see him now gleefully writing in these little bits that ruin (see what I did there?!) any potential fan-fic multi-world fight!

 

Ok ok, last try! What if we took the Final Empire Scadrial versus pre-Recreance Roshar? There are hundreds, if not thousands, of Knight Radiants plus a standing, trained army on Roshar to battle the ~20 Inquisitors and all of the Mistings/Mistborn nobles! Eh? That sounds like it has potential no? And remember, TLR is too focused on the Well to waste time fighting Rosharans!   

That would probably be the Rosharans win pretty easily, only the Inquisitors and Mistborn could fight the KR and they'd be pretty outnumbered.

TLR would obviously turn it in an instant but if we said he wasn't participating then I'd give that one to Roshar. Though if he's so focused on the well it does beg the question of why he sent an army to Roshar.

[CaptainRyan]

That would probably be the Rosharans win pretty easily, only the Inquisitors and Mistborn could fight the KR and they'd be pretty outnumbered.

TLR would obviously turn it in an instant but if we said he wasn't participating then I'd give that one to Roshar. Though if he's so focused on the well it does beg the question of why he sent an army to Roshar.

 

Obviously because Kelsier conned him into doing it!

[Oversleep]

I mean full honesty, Wax alone could level half a Rosharan army, steelpush down on them all while massively tapping weight and there goes all their weapons and half of them just got crushed by their armour.

It's basically come down to Shardbearers and the odd KR vs. the entire Scadrian army, a large number of whom are Mistings, Ferrings or both.

Unless some Elsecaller teleports and steals Waxes metalminds. Not to mention those Elsecallers and Lightweavers who just go and Soulcast all of Scadrian's reserves and ammunition into smoke. Or uranium, at which point Scadrians just die in nuclear blast. (yeah I know that the last one is unlikely)

[IndigoAjah]

From the 2 uses of Elsecalling we have seen, it doesn't appear quite as easy as all that. It could just be that Jasnah is really bad at it, but as she's been a proto-Radiant for a few years, I'd have hoped she'd experimented a bit!

If they had the Stormlight to do it and got within range, the Soulcasting could have a big impact, but only against the non-Allomancers. And woe betide Roshar if Scadrial get their hands on a Soulcaster or 10...

[Chaos]

I have edited the topic title to have the correct spelling "Scadrial" as I feel we shouldn't be perpetuating the misspelling

It is tempting to also put "Scadrial" -> "Scadrial" in the word filter. Spell it right

[Voidus]

 

Unless some Elsecaller teleports and steals Waxes metalminds. Not to mention those Elsecallers and Lightweavers who just go and Soulcast all of Scadrian's reserves and ammunition into smoke. Or uranium, at which point Scadrians just die in nuclear blast. (yeah I know that the last one is unlikely)

While in mid-air? WIthout knowing what they are? And somehow ripping them off without just getting shoved away? That seems somewhat unlikely, particularly since there's only one each of Elsecallers and Lightweavers that we know of, neither of whom are combatants, and they'd probably lose both, significantly weakening themselves.

If they want to get shot while doing so then sure, and again they'd not really even know what they are. And opening up covert warfare is something Rosharans really don't want to do against a group whose magic users have powers that were literally designed for pulling off capers.

[Brgst13]

I think everyone is ignoring one important thing: Scardial wins IF the fight is only in the Physical Realm.  But if the fight is also in the Cognitive Realm, Roshar has a HUGE advantage in that they can enter the realm physically.  This will allow them to do many things like soulcasting an ammo storage facility into a fiery apocalypse, or converting guns into blood.  A Lightweaver or Elsecaller, well packed with Stormlight, could cripple a Scadrian army the second they invade Roshar.  Atium mistings can predict the moves of their opponent, but can they see the actions of an enemy they dont even know exists?  Also, can they avoid being lashed to the wall by a windrunner?  How can a coinshot kill a windrunner when a Lightweaver changes the coin to smoke?

[CaptainRyan]

I think everyone is ignoring one important thing: Scardial wins IF the fight is only in the Physical Realm.  But if the fight is also in the Cognitive Realm, Roshar has a HUGE advantage in that they can enter the realm physically.  This will allow them to do many things like soulcasting an ammo storage facility into a fiery apocalypse, or converting guns into blood.  A Lightweaver or Elsecaller, well packed with Stormlight, could cripple a Scadrian army the second they invade Roshar.  Atium mistings can predict the moves of their opponent, but can they see the actions of an enemy they dont even know exists?  Also, can they avoid being lashed to the wall by a windrunner?  How can a coinshot kill a windrunner when a Lightweaver changes the coin to smoke?

 

All very valid points but it comes back to scale. On Roshar there is exactly one Elsecaller and one Lightweaver that we know of. Two people (unless they are Fullborns - maybe) cannot stop an army of hundreds of thousands. If there were (a lot) more Elsecallers and Lightweavers then I think Roshar would have a fighting chance using your tactic.

[IndigoAjah]

Good point though I think Atium Mistings would be able to perceive the actions in the Cognitive, no? Isn't that how it works?

Also, liquid and solid are inverted in Shadesmar- would the Radiants even be able to do this?! Unless it were a naval battle, wouldn't they be drowning in the battlefield?

Edited April 1, 2016 by IndigoAjah

[Voidus]

I think everyone is ignoring one important thing: Scardial wins IF the fight is only in the Physical Realm.  But if the fight is also in the Cognitive Realm, Roshar has a HUGE advantage in that they can enter the realm physically.  This will allow them to do many things like soulcasting an ammo storage facility into a fiery apocalypse, or converting guns into blood.  A Lightweaver or Elsecaller, well packed with Stormlight, could cripple a Scadrian army the second they invade Roshar.  Atium mistings can predict the moves of their opponent, but can they see the actions of an enemy they dont even know exists?  Also, can they avoid being lashed to the wall by a windrunner?  How can a coinshot kill a windrunner when a Lightweaver changes the coin to smoke?

Lightweavers as far as we know have to touch something to Soulcast it, and the one Lightweaver we know of isn't particularly good at Soulcasting even under those circumstances, so unless she throws herself infront of the Windrunner there're going to be some problems.

Also, since neither have Shardplate they're almost certainly going to have some metal on them, which means coinshots and Lurchers can actually deal with them pretty easily.

Jasnah could potentially be a pretty big source of annoyance but she'd have to know where everything is and unless she plans on never sleeping again she's still not going to be able to deal with most of the army, sure she could make life annoying, start fires, soulcast food, etc. but she can't exactly Elsecall into every single tent and change every gun into a teddybear or anything. And it still doesn't do much against all of the allomancers and Ferrings. And if the Scadrians even got one Soulcaster then they can instantly counter by simply remaking whatever she unmakes.

[A Windspren]

I just had a thought: Since Radiantspren, such as Pattern, can manipulate objects such as locks, what's preventing spren from triggering all of the Scadrian army's guns to go off while they're pointed at each other? Furthermore, since the Stormfather can control Highstorms, he could just create an endless Highstorm right on top of the Scadrians. Gunpowder, and even guns, would be ruined, along with any electronics.

[jasenerd]

We are assuming that shards aren't getting involved, so I say we must extend this to significantly large splinters of Shards. Like the Stormfather. Or Nightwatcher(if that's not Cultivation).

 

Also, could Scadrians get/use the old magic? Not that relevant, but a narrative might bring that up as an element.

[Voidus]

I just had a thought: Since Radiantspren, such as Pattern, can manipulate objects such as locks, what's preventing spren from triggering all of the Scadrian army's guns to go off while they're pointed at each other? Furthermore, since the Stormfather can control Highstorms, he could just create an endless Highstorm right on top of the Scadrians. Gunpowder, and even guns, would be ruined, along with any electronics.

Pattern maybe could? Others probably not. Its also not terribly likely that theyd be pointing guns at each other.

[Bowiespoon]

Wow, all these exploded my inbox.

 

Also, it's been really fun reading this discussion

[A Windspren]

I'm pretty sure that Nightblood would defeat someone with the Bands, as we have a WoB that they're less Invested than a dead Shardblade, and Nightblood is orders of magnitude above those.

[IndigoAjah]

I'm pretty sure that Nightblood would defeat someone with the Bands, as we have a WoB that they're less Invested than a dead Shardblade, and Nightblood is orders of magnitude above those.

 

 

Not sure amount of Investiture is the sole thing determining lethality: Nightblood is very powerful but pretty much indiscriminating in this, and hard to use, with no allegiance to Roshar itself, unlike the Bands which the user is in control of.