A war between Scadrial (era 2) and Roshar

[Oversleep]

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

So genuine question, not necessarily trying to prove anything, I am actually asking and would like an answer lol. If the allomantic strength of the individual, would affect the propensity for it coming up in the population and its strength in said population, then why could a Tineye (Straff) with a misting mistress produce a mistborn (Zane)? Yes I know Staff is a noble, but my question is how based on what you state, could two parents with one power each, produce a son with all of the powers?

I am not sure myself, lol I wish we had more info about Spiritual inheritance and genes and that stuff. I'm very interested in Spiritual inheritance.
Also, it's confusing that Brandon refers to Vin as being at 100% while Lerasiumborn clearly has more raw power. We don't really know what that 100% mean (although I have my suspicions I will talk about later in that post).

So what I was refering by % there is more about statistics. So if we gathered 10 000 people with 30%, there would be no Allomancers there (or almost none). If we gathered 10 000 people with 80% and above, that would be the category with most Mistborns, a lot of Mistings and the lowers percentage of non-Allomancers. If we gathered 10 000 people around 60%, there would be few Mistborns (if any), many Mistings and many non-Allomancers. It's about average. There could be a non-Allomancer with 70% and a Mistborn on 50%, but these are unlikely, right?

So you could be a non-Allomancer with strong Allomantic blood and your children would have a greater chance of being Allomancers than kids of an Allomancer but with weaker blood. Posterity of Vin and Elend (if they had any) would have more Allomancers among them than offspring of some nobles which in turn would have more Allomancers than posterity of noble-blooded skaa which would have more than offspring of mistfallen.

Now, what about those percentages? Let's gather facts: Since Lerasiumborns, Allomancy weakened. There are more noble Allomancers than skaa Allomancers. Brandon stated that there is dilution of blood, but after a certain point it stops.
I believe that any blood above 100% is unnatural and cannot be kept - nature pushes for balance. So the spectrum of 0%-100% is what blood is somewhat stable. The strongest natural-born Allomancer cannot be above 100%. Of course, offspring of two Lerasiumborns would be above 100%, but the heritage degenerates quickly until it hits the 0%-100% range. In 0%-100% it doesn't degenerate as the human soul can keep that amount of power.

So that's why a Misting like Straff can have a Mistborn son. After enough tries Zane was born. If Straff had stronger blood, the chance would be greater.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Oversleep

[Rich2244]

9 hours ago, Oversleep said:

I am not sure myself, lol I wish we had more info about Spiritual inheritance and genes and that stuff. I'm very interested in Spiritual inheritance.
Also, it's confusing that Brandon refers to Vin as being at 100% while Lerasiumborn clearly has more raw power. We don't really know what that 100% mean (although I have my suspicions I will talk about later in that post).

So what I was refering by % there is more about statistics. So if we gathered 10 000 people with 30%, there would be no Allomancers there (or almost none). If we gathered 10 000 people with 80% and above, that would be the category with most Mistborns, a lot of Mistings and the lowers percentage of non-Allomancers. If we gathered 10 000 people around 60%, there would be few Mistborns (if any), many Mistings and many non-Allomancers. It's about average. There could be a non-Allomancer with 70% and a Mistborn on 50%, but these are unlikely, right?

So you could be a non-Allomancer with strong Allomantic blood and your children would have a greater chance of being Allomancers than kids of an Allomancer but with weaker blood. Posterity of Vin and Elend (if they had any) would have more Allomancers among them than offspring of some nobles which in turn would have more Allomancers than posterity of noble-blooded skaa which would have more than offspring of mistfallen.

Now, what about those percentages? Let's gather facts: Since Lerasiumborns, Allomancy weakened. There are more noble Allomancers than skaa Allomancers. Brandon stated that there is dilution of blood, but after a certain point it stops.
I believe that any blood above 100% is unnatural and cannot be kept - nature pushes for balance. So the spectrum of 0%-100% is what blood is somewhat stable. The strongest natural-born Allomancer cannot be above 100%. Of course, offspring of two Lerasiumborns would be above 100%, but the heritage degenerates quickly until it hits the 0%-100% range. In 0%-100% it doesn't degenerate as the human soul can keep that amount of power.

So that's why a Misting like Straff can have a Mistborn son. After enough tries Zane was born. If Straff had stronger blood, the chance would be greater.

Could it just be that it is constantly degenerating from whatever lerasium gives to zero but not nessicarily linearly. So for example if a generation of people were generally around 80% then the next generation would be around 79% but as a distribution so the 'purest' person in the second generation could be 100% but there would be more people with a lower percentage to compensate.

I'm not discounting the roughs because of any sort of limit, just stating that they are a seperate faction to Elendel, the reason many of the people are out there is that they don't want to be affiliated or controlled by Elendel. 

Edited June 21, 2016 by Rich2244

[Rich2244]

10 hours ago, asterion137 said:

30-40 bullets might seem like a lot, but when there are coinshots doubling the strength of every bullet and a single bullet that hits the eyehole will kill, the bullets will add up very quickly. Besides, if the shardbearers become a real threat, Elendel could just send Wax&Wayne to kill them all in an hour or less. They're basically anti-shardbearers with Wax's ability to shoot Shardplate eyeholes, Wayne's speed bubbles to get them in and out fast, and Wax's giant shotgun just to top it off

Alethkar isn't exactly the epitome of unity either. Besides, their threatening armies, shardbearers, and radiants are technically not even in alethkar at the moment, so technically they should only get their in-alethkar fodder armies.

Why does it matter where the armies are? My point about the Roughs isn't that they are outside the basin its that they don't want to be affiliated or controlled by Elendel, they aren't part of Elendel. It would be like saying that Alethkar gets the army from Jar Keved because it's nearby.

I think you are hugely overestimating Wax and Wayne there as well, that shotgun could definitely do some damage but it's a 2 shot weapon, and I can't imagine Wax carries many additional slugs considering their size. If a shardbearer gets close to Wayne he is gonna die, gold healing won't last long when he gets a shardblade to the face, and he has no way of avoiding or blocking it. Wax could avoid a shardbearer while he had steel but I don't think he is a good enough marksman to do that and shoot through an eyeslit on a fast moving target, he is good he's not burning atium. Again one mistake and he is dead.

[Pathfinder]

7 hours ago, Rich2244 said:

Why does it matter where the armies are? My point about the Roughs isn't that they are outside the basin its that they don't want to be affiliated or controlled by Elendel, they aren't part of Elendel. It would be like saying that Alethkar gets the army from Jar Keved because it's nearby.

I think you are hugely overestimating Wax and Wayne there as well, that shotgun could definitely do some damage but it's a 2 shot weapon, and I can't imagine Wax carries many additional slugs considering their size. If a shardbearer gets close to Wayne he is gonna die, gold healing won't last long when he gets a shardblade to the face, and he has no way of avoiding or blocking it. Wax could avoid a shardbearer while he had steel but I don't think he is a good enough marksman to do that and shoot through an eyeslit on a fast moving target, he is good he's not burning atium. Again one mistake and he is dead.

But by that logic each of the Highprinces are autonomous and distrust each other. Their armies would be fractured. Add to the fact that there wouldn't be gem hearts to drive them, and you may have one or two armies of about 10 thousand each (that was from an earlier post where I believe someone quoted how large each highprince's army is). So if according to you, the war would not unite Elendel, with the roughs and the southerners, then the war certainly wouldn't unite the highprinces of Alethkar. 

[Rich2244]

3 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

But by that logic each of the Highprinces are autonomous and distrust each other. Their armies would be fractured. Add to the fact that there wouldn't be gem hearts to drive them, and you may have one or two armies of about 10 thousand each (that was from an earlier post where I believe someone quoted how large each highprince's army is). So if according to you, the war would not unite Elendel, with the roughs and the southerners, then the war certainly wouldn't unite the highprinces of Alethkar. 

But that was the OPs scenario that we were given, Elendel vs Alethkar, not Elendel and the Roughs and the Southerners just Elendel.

Im not saying that a war wouldn't unite them just we were given some limits, which some people seem to be ignoring.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Rich2244

[Pathfinder]

Yeah but if you go back and read through the whole thread, it goes back and forth, and all around regarding who and what is against who and what. So I was responding to your reasoning as to why the roughs should not be included. Your reasoning was that they would not want to ally with Elendel given the political climate at the time. So given the political climate at the time of Way of Kings is that the highprinces are fractured and distrust each other. Now I believe it is this thread where I pointed out in order to get a true weighing of strengths and weaknesses in battle, then politics need to be thrown out. It needs to be a one to one comparison to weapons and troops. Otherwise there are too many unknowns in the conditions of Roshar at the time of the Everstorm, as well as too many unknowns from the political scene, secret societies on both planets, as well as motivations of the shards to tell. That is why I focused on replying to your reasoning rather than the OP. The OP has already been replied to

 

edit: unless I have of course confused it with the two or three other threads on the same topic lol. But regardless the points still stand

Edited June 21, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Rich2244]

5 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Yeah but if you go back and read through the whole thread, it goes back and forth, and all around regarding who and what is against who and what. So I was responding to your reasoning as to why the roughs should not be included. Your reasoning was that they would not want to ally with Elendel given the political climate at the time. So given the political climate at the time of Way of Kings is that the highprinces are fractured and distrust each other. Now I believe it is this thread where I pointed out in order to get a true weighing of strengths and weaknesses in battle, then politics need to be thrown out. It needs to be a one to one comparison to weapons and troops. Otherwise there are too many unknowns in the conditions of Roshar at the time of the Everstorm, as well as too many unknowns from the political scene, secret societies on both planets, as well as motivations of the shards to tell. That is why I focused on replying to your reasoning rather than the OP. The OP has already been replied to

Ah right, in that case, I was talking about the Roughs not being part of Elendel, if you read back 5 or 10 comments someone had a comment that implied the Roughs were a part of Elendel, which I disagree with. The reasoning wasn't originally to do with the conflict but simply stating that the two were seperate factions.

[Oversleep]

12 hours ago, Rich2244 said:

Could it just be that it is constantly degenerating from whatever lerasium gives to zero but not nessicarily linearly. So for example if a generation of people were generally around 80% then the next generation would be around 79% but as a distribution so the 'purest' person in the second generation could be 100% but there would be more people with a lower percentage to compensate.

Yeah, but by WoB after certain point dilution stops. There is a stable level of Allomancy in population.

[asterion137]

12 hours ago, Rich2244 said:

Why does it matter where the armies are? My point about the Roughs isn't that they are outside the basin its that they don't want to be affiliated or controlled by Elendel, they aren't part of Elendel. It would be like saying that Alethkar gets the army from Jar Keved because it's nearby.

I think you are hugely overestimating Wax and Wayne there as well, that shotgun could definitely do some damage but it's a 2 shot weapon, and I can't imagine Wax carries many additional slugs considering their size. If a shardbearer gets close to Wayne he is gonna die, gold healing won't last long when he gets a shardblade to the face, and he has no way of avoiding or blocking it. Wax could avoid a shardbearer while he had steel but I don't think he is a good enough marksman to do that and shoot through an eyeslit on a fast moving target, he is good he's not burning atium. Again one mistake and he is dead.

What i was envisioning was wax and wayne hopping in perhaps 15 feet away from the shardbearer with bendalloy and steeljumping, wax aiming under bendalloy like he did to miles, and shooting the shardbearer and getting out quickly with steel again. Wax has shot bullets out of the air before. He shot a gun off of a moving train, he shoots miles's gun while they are both moving around, as well as various other ridiculous feats of marksmanship

[Sheridan_rd]

On 3/28/2016 at 7:17 PM, Voidus said:

 

 Fine

Edited April 11, 2017 by Sheridan_rd

[Fezzik]

Necro much?

[USS bridge four]

Just too point out something people have been know to battles with spearsvs guns case in point Zulu vs the British the British only one in the end because they had more people you can point me out on my history though but they one battles I just read the first page so for so sorry if I'm off topic 

Edited April 18, 2017 by USS bridge four