[spoiler didn't hide] what happens to a spren...

[dadradahmember]

I want to say in WoR when Dalinar is having one of his visions at the keep and the Knights charge but then stop and drop their weapons and plate are all the weapons swords? I want to say yes but not too sure sorry can't look passage I don't have book in front of me.

Aside everytime they mention shardblades in the books they're referring to swords.

As we all know kaladin is a master with the spear and prefers the spear over the sword. When kaladin breaks his oath or dies, which both are possibilities, will Syl make the last change to a sword or spear?

Edited February 14, 2016 by dadradahmember

[Oversleep]

Radiant dying doesn't kill the spren.
If now Kaladin was to break his oaths, after speaking third Oath... I don't know, really, since in the vision it appeared as if Radiants summoned their Blades and then broke the oaths. So they chose the shape first and then killed spren.
My theory is that the chose this oversized swords to give humanity something to fight thunderclasts with.

[Observer]

This topic's title is visible from the front page, and the title is REALLY spoilery. Mind editing it down?

The answer is likely whatever form she happens to be in when his oaths die, given Shardblades and how all of them are differently crafted.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Observer

[dadradahmember]

This topic's title is visible from the front page, and the title is REALLY spoilery. Mind editing it down?

No problem

[The Ninja Yodeler]

See my guess is Syl will freeze in whatever form Kaladin summons her. Say he summoned her as a shield, which he has done before, and then broke his oaths, she would freeze as a shield.

[Observer]

I really don't mean to keep nagging, but not everyone knows that shardblades are spren, and the very existence of a shardspear is kind of a big thing for WoR :\

 

I am very interested about this though. If it's possible she'd remain a spear, why'd the KR all pick giant swords as their weapons? Was it a culture thing, did they all agree on it in advance, what was up?

[aeromancer]

Sword is the default state of a shardblade because they were patterned after the Honorblades. Sylphrena would become a sword.

[dadradahmember]

Sword is the default state of a shardblade because they were patterned after the Honorblades. Sylphrena would become a sword.

Great point and I kind of agree, but Syl is an honorspren wouldn't she want to honor kaladin by remaining as his weapon of choice.

Or is it occam's razor and as the other posters say last form when oath is broken is their frozen form...

2028 can't get here fast enough

[aeromancer]

I think this is WoB, actually. Otherwise, there would be variants in shardblade weapon types.

[Meg]

I think this is WoB, actually. Otherwise, there would be variants in shardblade weapon types.

Could you please link that WoB?

[DSC01]

So, here's a WoB (second question in the list): http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kw=shardblades+honorblades

 

I don't think that means that Syl would necessarily revert to a sword, though. Yes, the original bond involved the Honorblade as default, but Syl and Kaladin's bond is different than what happened in the past. They didn't have the whole lighteye/darkeye divide, where a darkeyed fighter would consider a spear, not a sword, their default weapon. In Dalinar's vision of the Recreance, he doesn't see Knights dropping all kinds of weapons that revert to swords; he sees them dropping swords. 

 

Per the WoB, of course, if Dalinar had seen Shardspears and Shardhammers and such, they still would have gone back to being swords. However, the fact that he didn't speaks to the fact that, no matter how much a particular Knight might favor a different weapon, they still thought of the sword as the default. I think Cognitive Identity probably plays a part in that. I would say that if Kaladin were to break his vows--perhaps not immediately, but maybe some time down the road--Syl might become a spear.

 

A lot of mights and maybes, but I don't know if the question is completely settled.

[Oversleep]

So, here's a WoB (second question in the list): http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kw=shardblades+honorblades

 

I don't think that means that Syl would necessarily revert to a sword, though. Yes, the original bond involved the Honorblade as default, but Syl and Kaladin's bond is different than what happened in the past. They didn't have the whole lighteye/darkeye divide, where a darkeyed fighter would consider a spear, not a sword, their default weapon. In Dalinar's vision of the Recreance, he doesn't see Knights dropping all kinds of weapons that revert to swords; he sees them dropping swords. 

 

Per the WoB, of course, if Dalinar had seen Shardspears and Shardhammers and such, they still would have gone back to being swords. However, the fact that he didn't speaks to the fact that, no matter how much a particular Knight might favor a different weapon, they still thought of the sword as the default. I think Cognitive Identity probably plays a part in that. I would say that if Kaladin were to break his vows--perhaps not immediately, but maybe some time down the road--Syl might become a spear.

 

A lot of mights and maybes, but I don't know if the question is completely settled.

So the question is what Kaladin perceives as default weapon: spear, as it is darkeye weapon, or sword, as everybody knows Shardblades, which are gift from the Almighty and Honorblades which are wielded by the Heralds of the Almighty, are swords. Interesting.

[Meg]

Thank you, DSC01, for providing the WoB.

.

So the question is what Kaladin perceives as default weapon: spear, as it is darkeye weapon, or sword, as everybody knows Shardblades, which are gift from the Almighty and Honorblades which are wielded by the Heralds of the Almighty, are swords. Interesting.

.

If Syl is right, and I'm assuming she is, Shardblades are not a 'gift of the Almighty' but are the idea and creation of the spren as Syl tells Kaladin:

 

“The Honorblades are what we are based on, Kaladin. Honor gave these to men, and those men gained powers from them. Spren figured out what He’d done, and we imitated it. We’re bits of His power, after all, like this sword. Be careful with it. It is a treasure.”

WoR Chapter 87

.

Though, yes, one could argue that because the (some?) spren are splinters of Honor the Shardblades indirectly are 'a gift' of Honor. Not an intended gift, though.

As for the form a shardblade-spren/spren-shardblade would take when the oath is broken, I think the WoB DSC provided is distinct. The base were the Honorblades, the imitation the Shardblades. That's their *natural* form, thus an abandoned spren-blade would reverse to a *dead* Shardblade, I'd think.

[Oversleep]

If Syl is right, and I'm assuming she is, Shardblades are not a 'gift of the Almighty' but are the idea and creation of the spren as Syl tells Kaladin:

 

.

Though, yes, one could argue that because the (some?) spren are splinters of Honor the Shardblades indirectly are 'a gift' of Honor. Not an intended gift, though.

I meant it as an insight in how the Rosharans Vorin-culture-people perceive them. It's rooted in culture, religion, society; Kaladin thought that way whole life. Zahel points out that there is nothing divine in swords and he thinks it's stupid, but he comes from another planet. It implies that Rosharans Vorin-culture-people think of swords as the best/divine weapon, as only the higher caste is allowed to use them, magical artifacts are superswords, their God gave his Heralds divine swords... The list goes on.

Now there is a clash between Kaladin's belief in that whole swords thing and his perceiving the spear as the weapon he's meant to use (being darkeyes and stuff).

EDIT: replaced Rosharans with Vorin-culture people. Thanks to the Meg for pointing it out.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Oversleep

[Meg]

I meant it as an insight in how the Rosharans perceive them. It's rooted in culture, religion, society; Kaladin thought that way whole life. Zahel points out that there is nothing divine in swords and he thinks it's stupid, but he comes from another planet. It implies that Rosharans think of swords as the best/divine weapon, as only the higher caste is allowed to use them, magical artifacts are superswords, their God gave his Heralds divine swords... The list goes on.

Now there is a clash between Kaladin's belief in that whole swords thing and his perceiving the spear as the weapon he's meant to use (being darkeyes and stuff).

I apologize for not seeing that you didn't mean it literally.

What you are describing, isn't that mostly tied to Vorinism? I think I recall that in other countries on Roshar it's not the swords which are used by the upper class but the bow? Also I can imagine that not each and every Knight Radiant used the Shardblade as a sword but also changed between forms as did Kaladin. Though that is pure speculation.

Back to the question, I think that the mentioned WoB states that an abandoned Shardblade-spren will 'freeze' in form of a Shardblade.

[DSC01]

About that WoB, yes, a dead spren that was bonded defaults to the form of a sword. Why, though? Spren don't look like swords. And, of course, everyone knows that this is because they're based on Honorblades. But, remember, this is something that the spren started doing themselves, even surprising Honor. They were trying to imitate the Honorblades, and I think that sword form isn't necessarily intrinsic to the bond. It's a Cognitive thing. It makes sense for the Knights of old to maintain that sword Identity because of their cultural views--not necessarily that swords are better, more honorable, or anything like that, but that they are the default weapon for medieval-type warfare (and, of course, there remains the Honorblade association). Because of modern social restrictions, I would say that in Kaladin's eyes, the sword is not the default weapon of war, being a darkeyes. I'm not at all certain about this, of course, but I think that it is possible that after some time, Syl might start defaulting to a spear rather than a sword.