echaozh Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 They say he shook hands with the Evil itself, that he visited the Fallen World and came back with strange powers. He can kindle fire on even the deepest of nights, and no shade will dare come for his soul. The opening of the Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell, though describing the White Fox, who we know didn't have such powers, do sound like someone we know. The Fallen World is definitely the Cognitive Realm, and there are people who can kindle fire at will there: Kelsier and Nazh. However, things may be deeper than that. We know, from the Secret History, that Hoid has white hair. And it would not surprise at all if he had shaken hands with the Evil, no matter who he is, given his power beyond mere mortals. And he had ways to shock away Cognitive Shadows touching him, as experienced by Kelsier. I think that the White Fox is a mythical creature based on Hoid, and Silence Mondane just used his name. And I do wonder who the Evil is, who killed so many people in Silence's Homeland when Silence's grandfather was old enough to be a forestscout. We know that Silence's story happened after HoAA but before AoL, within the 300 years in between. My theory is that the Evil came after Kelsier's visit to the Ire's base, which is, I presume, on Threnody. I think the Evil came to destroy Ire's base, and destroyed Silence's Homeland, occupying the same location in the Physical Realm as a side effect. The Threnodite shades must have been so heavily invested to be able to linger in Cosmere after death, that they cannot leave the planet just like the shards or splinters. They're basically human minds riding investiture now, just like Ruin but on a much smaller scale, and that;s why they act so shade-like. Ire's warding off the shades means they're on the planet, which, I presume, is in the same system as Scadrial, since it was so easy for Kelsier to reach. Now, the Evil can the piece of Ruin shed by Harmony to balance his powers within. It makes sense given Ruin's grudge with Ire. But I don't buy it. Rather, the destruction of Ire looks so much like the outpost to the invasion of Scadrial. Ire set up their base there when they had plans for Scadrial, making it a very strategic location. The Scadrian shards have minimal power there, but it's still close enough to strike regularly. The Threnodites are allowed to survive in the Forests of Hell because they were never the targets of the Evil, and the Evil doesn't like wasting his powers on minor things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I never thought to make the White Fox parallel to Hoid but that is a very good point. Edited February 9, 2016 by ParadoxSpren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Well, foxes do evoke "sly and duplicitous" imagery and he's definitely not very trustworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Well, foxes do evoke "sly and duplicitous" imagery and he's definitely not very trustworthy. Oh don't get me wrong, given it is a minor Shardworlds, I didn't equate the two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasarr Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 While I agree with White-Fox-is-Hoid idea (well spotted!), remember, the only "solid" places in Scadrial's Cognitive Realm were those "islands" above the seas and lakes, and the plants that grew all around Ire's base grew only on those "islands", which suggests that Castle Ire is parallel either to Scadrial's ocean or the inter-planetary space (remember the tug Kelsier felt when he was going towards the base. I don't think it'd let him leave the planet). There were also the Ire people saying that Threnodites were going towards them from some "border", which in turn suggests that Threnodite Cognitive space started somewhere further away from the Castle Ire. This being said, Threnody is, indeed, close to Scardial, and Evil looks suspiciously well-timed for an invasion of the planet. A wild theory time: could Evil be Trell? It could take Threnody as its outpost for the invasion, and destroy Castle Ire so that it'd face no opposition on its way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidWayne Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 ... The Threnodite shades must have been so heavily invested to be able to linger in Cosmere after death, that they cannot leave the planet just like the shards or splinters. They're basically human minds riding investiture now, just like Ruin but on a much smaller scale, and that;s why they act so shade-like. Ire's warding off the shades means they're on the planet, which, I presume, is in the same system as Scadrial, since it was so easy for Kelsier to reach... [a] First, it's not that the shards and/or splinters "cannot leave the planet." Rather, they have the OPTION to remain in the Cognitive Realm or to exit the Cognitive Realm into the Afterlife. Kelsier became bound to the Cognitive Realm only after he had "become a part of" the power of the Well of Ascension (i.e. he got stuck only after he attached his mind - or whatever you call a person's Cognitive aspect postmortem - to a source of investiture). I like where you're going with the shades are "basically human minds riding investiture" thing. It seems to me that it is reasonable to assume that the glowing liquid that the IRE ancients (Alonoe, Maod, Elrao, Riina, and the other unnamed Elantrian) are drinking is some sort of Selish investiture. So, does the nature of the IRE's conflict/concern with Threnodites have to do with the Threnodites' attempting to steal their imported investiture from Sel? Perhaps foreign investiture enables the Threnodites to sever their Connection to Threnody and reestablish a new Connection that would allow them to leave their planet and become more like Kelsier. [c] I'm not sure about the IRE being located on Threnody. It seems more likely to me that they are camped out in the space between planets (i.e. the "Expanse of the Vapors") in the Cognitive Realm. Since the IRE fort is on solid ground in the Cognitive Realm it has to be in the "space between", the ocean on Scadrial, or on the ocean on Threnody. If it was the ocean on Scadrial I find it odd that Kelsier was beyond the reach of Ruin, if it was the ocean on Threnody, I find it odd that the location of the IRE fort is described as beyond the point where Kelsier saw plants or fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaSeeker Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Here's an idea.. The Evil that came to Threnody is native to Sel. The Sel people Kelsier encounters specifically mention a blockade of Threnody. What if what the Sels are actually doing is blockading all souls from Threnody from passing through to the Beyond? Which leaves Threnody infested with Shades. Edited February 9, 2016 by NovaSeeker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvereye Sliver Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 I know I'm a bit late on this discussion, but I just had a thought after reading the Secret History. *spoilers for both Secret History and Bands of Mourning.* The people at IRE fort seemed afraid that shades from Threnody would be invading their fortress, which they believe would have occurred to get in on the opportunity ascend as a shard bearer on Scadrial. In Bands of Mourning, the Set work with a group of beings who have a metal that Harmony is not familiar with and Edwarn states that they have faceless immortals of their own. At the end of the book, he is visited by a being with red eyes that states that Edward will serve him in another realm and that life will be wiped from the planet. Immediately afterwards, the being blows him up in the physical realm. Now, the shades from Threnody have red eyes and like to create more cognitive shadows like themselves. What do you think are the chances that the red eyed beings are shades and the Trelagism religion is a front for an invasion from Threnody? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts