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Combined Shards


Oversleep

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EDIT:

Here's the spreadsheet.

I know that's what you're here for anyway :P

Please don't remove anything from the spreadsheet; if you disagree with any proposed Shard combination, write about it here and we will discuss it and possibly decide to remove it. If you want to highlight any proposition for discussion, color it orange for everyone to see.

P.S. There is the second tab with triple Shard sheet, remember to look there sometime :P

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Old post:

We're already working on figuring out opposing Shards and figuring out what are the remaining Intents.
Let's approach it from a different point of view. Let's combine the Shards. For example, a divine attribute could be
"vengeful". I bet somebody would say revenge is of Odium, but vengeance is not only hatred, since you avenge only for something. It's not just blind hatred, there is some justice component in it.

So I think Honor + Odium = Vengeance.
There are 120 different combinations of double Shards and 560 different triple Shards. We have a lot of room. (Of course since we know only Intents of nine Shards, we can only make 45 double Shards and 84 triple Shards)

We know that Ruin would be most compatible with Cultivation and I think that such combination would result in Shard named "Change" or something along this line. Cultivation makes things progress, Ruin makes things decay. Both are about changing things, so Cultivation+Ruin would be a Shard of true change, which can change things both ways.
Now there is a problem because perfect counterpart for Change is Preservation. So we're combining double Shard with its single Shard opposite. What would that be? Existence? Creation?... Creation seems good.

Edit (after Stormgate's post): I know Adonalsium is said to be a force of creation, but almighty god isn't all about creating things. There is also that punishing the bad people part, showing mercy, establishing free will, ruling...

What are your ideas?
Edit: The Young Bard created a spreadsheet. You can add Intents there directly, but please post them also here and explain your reasoning for coming up with the Shard.

Edited by Overstorm
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You are deviating from Realmatic Theory and going into Shardic Philosophy. A related field to be certain, but different.

That said, let's go!

Since Adonalsium can in one sense be described as the power of creation, the hypothetical triple Shard, by definition, cannot be Creation.

I am drawing a blank on what in the name of Hoid it could be.

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Autonomy + Dominion = Democracy? + Devotion would be something like a Benevolent king who loves his people and rules with goodness.

 

Cultivation + Preservation = Prosperity

 

Endowment + Honor = Obligation

 

These are surprisingly tough to think of.

So i think in this case

Odium+Ruin would be Adversity!

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Endowment + Preservation = Protection? Damnation, why Honor has so many aspects?

Odium + Devotion = Ambivalence?

Odium + Dominion = Abuse?

So i think in this case

Odium+Ruin would be Adversity!

What a relief that Rayse didn't want to pick up any other Shard. Because Odium + Ruin is super scary.

I think I will start a shared document to have all these ideas in one place... But I don't know how to do it.

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Some possible ones.

 

Ruin+Autonomy = Chaos

Ruin+Odium = Armageddon

Ruin+Honor = Justice

Ruin+Cultivation = Change

 

Preservation+Honor = Salvation

Preservation+Autonomy = Survival

Preservation+Dominion = Order

 

Odium+Dominion = Tyranny

Odium+Cultivation = Deceit

 

Autonomy+Endowment = Tribulation

Autonomy+Dominion = Society

Autonomy+Cultivation = Wilderness

 

Honor+Dominion = Guidance

Honor+Endowment = Sacrifice

 

Devotion+Cultivation = Faithfulness

Devotion+Endowment = Generosity

Edited by Drake Marshall
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Ha, interesting topic. My thoughts:

 

I could see Ruin + Endowment = Subterfuge/Sabotage, as in destruction via pretending to be on destroyed's side. Subterfuge + Honor could be Fanaticism, as in doing something dishonorable while being convinced it's honorable. Then again, Odium + Honor could be Fanaticism as well. 

 

Odium + Devotion = Vengeance? Devotion doesn't necessarily has to be "positive" force.

Odium + Preservation = Nemesis, someone you keep around to hate.

Autonomy + Devotion = Rebellion.

Honor + Devotion = Protection or Dedication.

 

I would disagree with Drake's Ruin + Honor = Justice, as Justice isn't always destructive. I would say Ruin + Honor = Necessity, Shard of "for the greater good", with Honor + Dominion as Justice (although Guidance is a good choice as well).

 

Could it be that the Intent of double shard comes from whoever picks them up? If someone more rulership-minded than Sazed picked up Ruin and Preservation, could it end up not as Harmony, but rather something like Dictature (preserving those in power, but ruining all who don't hold it)?

 

Then again, I'm not quite certain if names such as Society, Dictature or Democracy would be on the mark. So far, all Shards seem to be more about human ideals/emotions (Odium, Honor) and actions (Preservation, Endowment) than "civillizational concepts" created by humans. I guess it could be something we might check for any sort of group of people and still find it there, so to put it. You won't find democracy everywhere, but you're sure to find devotion and autonomy.

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The way I see it the original 16 Shards are basic concepts, like you put it, Rasarr, but combined Shards can have more complex Intents.

Autonomy is about independence and Dominion is about having power over something. So together it would be about rulership or governing.

Ruin + Dominion would be probably Terror or Sadism.
Odium + Dominion = Superiority. Hating those you have power over.

Seriously, we need to do a table to keep this cleaner. How can I do a shared document on the Shard?

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I've created a spreadsheet for this that anyone can edit. If you have a different idea for the same spot, leave both options there and put a slash between them. I'll go through and add the ones already suggested now.

 

Unfortunately, it only works for double shards, not triple shards.

 

EDIT: I've now set up a number of tables for the 3 shard guesses. Flick over the bottom tab to the one which has the words "Triple Shards", and you'll be able to access it.

Edited by The Young Bard
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I've made some improvements to the table (making it a triangle matrix), but I feel that we should discuss some of the Shards we have came up with. Some are repeated, some I feel aren't right. For example, Devotion should be part of Fanaticism, but I have seen Fanaticism all over the place.

Some are very good ideas (like Dominion + Preservation = Order), but some aren't and we should discuss them. And while posting here your ideas, try to explain them.

Edited by Oversleep
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Did someone remove Isolation? I seem to recall it being there before, and it's not there now.

 

If you disagree with something, please add what you think it is, start a conversation about it here, but don't delete the other one.

 

EDIT: For reference, Isolation was Autonomy + something else (I can't remember which one exactly.)

Edited by The Young Bard
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Did someone remove Isolation? I seem to recall it being there before, and it's not there now.

 

If you disagree with something, please add what you think it is, start a conversation about it here, but don't delete the other one.

 

EDIT: For reference, Isolation was Autonomy + something else (I can't remember which one exactly.)

 I came up with Isolation, but a moment later decided to delete it. Autonomy+Honor (like a hermit or something) and Autonomy+Odium (not caring about anything - Indifference). But I decided to delete Isolation to find a better word for it. EDIT: Detachment. But seriously, Honor + Autonomy doesn't necessarily mean detaching yourself from the world. Try to find better Intent.

 

 

Reckoners confirmed to be Cosmere.

*sobs*

:D

Edited by Oversleep
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Autonomy+Endowment = Tribulation

 

Drake, do you mind explaining why Autonomy + Endowment = Tribulation? It seems a bit strange.

 

(Edit to avoid double posting)

 

All of the 2 shard combos now have at least one suggestion! Maybe leave it open for new ideas for a couple days and then start trying to squish it down?

Edited by The Young Bard
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Drake, do you mind explaining why Autonomy + Endowment = Tribulation? It seems a bit strange.

 

(Edit to avoid double posting)

 

All of the 2 shard combos now have at least one suggestion! Maybe leave it open for new ideas for a couple days and then start trying to squish it down?

 

 

Certainly. Perhaps I should explain how I am viewing the intents of these things. Tribulation, as has been brought up on another thread, is meant to refer to the idea of getting things by paying prices, going through trials, et cetera. Being tested. I am inclined to view autonomy as a shard that would respect individualism, carving one's own path, et cetera. In short, an individual prospering by proving their strength against the world. If we consider this aspect of the idea of "autonomy" fused with the idea of endowment, it follows that the resultant intent would feel motivated to test individuals and assist those it views as having earned it.

In case anybody understand s the reference, I loosely derive the idea from the concept of the territory of valinhall, from a different series.

 

Also some additional combos, speaking of autonomy and others:

 

Autonomy+Odium = Selfishness   //Self reliance + Hatred = Arrogance, thus ultimately selfishness

Autonomy+Honor = Liberation      //Autonomy with honorable justification is liberty

Dominion+Devotion = Patriotism   //Dominion and Devotion overlap when it comes to devotion to a nation/empire

Dominion+Endowment = Privilege //Aristocracy and authority and such. I think the combination works fairly well for these two

 

I added these in to the spreadsheet and all. This just includes explanations.

Edited by Drake Marshall
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I think we should start discussing over Intents which turn up in different combinations. This will allow us to cross out some Shards.
(On a side note, please take a look at everything what was already invented. Those which you want to discuss or are not sure about, please highlight with orange color.)

For example, let's start with Vengeance. What are your thoughts?
I think it's pretty clear that Vengeance is made up of Odium. What should be the other one, or maybe the other ones?

Edited by Oversleep
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For example, let's start with Vengeance. What are your thoughts?

I think it's pretty clear that Vengeance is made up of Odium. What should be the other one, or maybe the other ones?

 

I'd suggest Honor, as Vengeance is often considered to be a matter of honor (although one may suppose Syl disagrees). The intent could be something along the lines of "to right the wrongs", or "to right my wrongs" as opposed to Justice's theoretical Intent. As a side note, I think Vengeance would lend itself well to Shardic future-sight - "vengeance best served cold", anyone?

 

As for the chart, I seriously doubt Love, for pretty much the same reason as the person who commented there. I also don't think "Breeding" is a Shard. It's more like aspect of Cultivation. 

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Here's my take, just to throw a few out there. Some may be doubles of other peoples. Been days since i read the thread. But hey this was a fun distraction.

Autonomy+Endowment=Empowerment

Autonomy+Cultivation =Progression

Autonomy+Ruin=Division

Honor+Devotion=Vigilance

Cultivation+Endowment=Prosperity

Odium+Ruin=Cataclysm

Odium+Devotion=Malevolence

Odium+Dominion=Captivity

Devotion+Endowment=Benevolence

Dominion+Autonomy=Conquest

Endowment+Dominion=Sacrifice

Honor+Odium=Pride

Cultivation+Ruin=Corruption

Dominion+Ruin=Doom

Preservation+Devotion=Economy

Preservation+Cultivation=Vitality

Cultivation+Honor=Adaptability

Endowment+Honor=Courage

Preservation+Honor=Integrity

Preservation+Endowment=Stability

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  • 1 year later...

How's this @Oversleep

Dominion+Ambition+Honor= Sovereignty, Ruin+Odium= Devestation, Endowment+Cultivation= charity

The combination of keeping to one's ideals, a healthy desire to control, and a healthy desire to accomplish equals the making of a shard of ruler ship.

Decay and Hatred make a nice recipe for utter destruction hence devastation. 

The ability to grant something plus the ability to maintain would be the ability to give and ensure that the gift would not be taken away.

 

Edited by Nathrangking
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