RShara

[Secret History Spoiler] Whose body is it anyway?

52 posts in this topic

So assuming the one-eyed spike man is Kelsier, how exactly did he manage to get a physical body to anchor him to the Physical Realm?

 

We know that Sazed refused him, and that he was plotting with Spook to find a way to get back.  We also "know" that he's using Hemalurgy in some way.

 

Some theories I've seen:
He's using pure Hemalurgy to reform his body

He got Spook to spike a dead or dying person (possibly Spook himself) with his "essense" somehow.

He got Spook to spike a person enough that he could control them from the Cognitive Realm.

He is using a kandra or mistwraith body. Kandra can't use Allomancy or Feruchemy.

He eventually convinced Sazed to make him a body.

He got a kandra to use his bones to generate enough flesh to spike and then he compounded Feruchemical gold.

 

 

(Sorry if this is a duplicate, but the other threads I've seen dealt with the identity of the man, rather than how he came to be)

Edited by RShara
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I would assume all he would have to do is figure out a way to bind himself to a spike (Connection possibly?) and then have someone drive that spike through the eye of a corpse. Since Hemalurgy is ripping a piece of soul away from someone and giving it to someone else and Kelsier is technically already ripped out, this would be the best solution. Of course that does leave how the body took on physical attributes of Kelsier's old body. Maybe when his soul entered the corpse it rewrote the cognitive and physical aspects of the body to match the spirit that now inhabited it.

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I am reminded of the scene in the first book when Kel goes to destroy The Pits of Hathsin. Before he does that though, he saves a single man from the pits. This man bore the scars that one gets after spending a long time searching for Atium geodes. This is the only individual that we know of with those scars that could have still been alive after Harmony ascended. Secret Histories talked a lot about "connection", and how it plays a big role in investiture, and applying ones soul/spirit. Maybe the events that the man went through in The Pits gave him a connection to Kel. As that's exactly where Kel snapped and awakened his Allomantic abilities, his link to investiture.

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He got a kandra to use his bones to generate enough flesh to spike and then he compounded Feruchemical gold.

 

 

I like this one. 

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I think it's Kelsier's own body.  We know TLR could heal from anything thru compounded gold.  Spook and Kel's experiments lead to the bands of mourning so we know that they definitely learned how to hack feruchemy and allomancy very very well.  So get Kelsier's bones,  Place a spike for the tether and one for feruchemical gold.  Strap on a full gold metal mind that is usable by anyone,  and let the process go.  Kelsier now has his own body back.

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But you need flesh to spike.  I don't think there's any instance of the bind points being in the bones.

 

Also how old would the bones be at that point?  Some years anyway.  Icky lol.

Edited by RShara
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But you need flesh to spike.  I don't think there's any instance of the bind points being in the bones.

 

Also how old would the bones be at that point?  Some years anyway.  Icky lol.

You mean like an eye socket?
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But you need flesh to spike.  I don't think there's any instance of the bind points being in the bones.

 

Also how old would the bones be at that point?  Some years anyway.  Icky lol.

 

You mean like an eye socket?

 

But an eye socket is where there isn't any bone. It's the flesh and blood there that gets spiked.

 

This is why my vote is that he got a mistwraith/Kandra to create his body from his bones.

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IIRC, Kandra can't use Allomancy/Feruchemy, right?  So I guess his body itself is probably not a mistwraith/kandra (controlled by or embodiment of Kelsier).

 

My problem with the kandra creating his body is that they'd need to make it out of his flesh or else it'd probably be rejected (whole body transplant, yeow).  OreSeur was dead, and TenSoon definitely didn't have any of Kelsier's flesh lying around. 

 

Maybe if Kelsier was RIGHT THERE and ready to take over, they could have used some other person's(?) flesh(ew) just long enough to spike, and then let the Feruchemical gold take care of the rest/regrow that part too before rejection sets in.

Edited by RShara
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Well, seeing how all your blood is made from within your bones, maybe it is possible to spike bones.

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Well, seeing how all your blood is made from within your bones, maybe it is possible to spike bones.

But your flesh isn't :)

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I think that "The Sovereign" would have been purposely sent by Harmony though. He wouldn't just let the southerners die and without help they were going to.

Also, compounded gold may make you effectively immortal but it does so by not letting you die. You don't die and then be brought back. You heal so rapidly that anything that should kill you does not have time to do so.

If anyone can figure a way out it would be Kelsier. He was starting to understand Shadesmar after a few years. Give him a few hundred and he can probably figure out anything. Also, he can travel to other worlds so that might be useful for new knowledge and power.

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But an eye socket is where there isn't any bone. It's the flesh and blood there that gets spiked.

 

This is why my vote is that he got a mistwraith/Kandra to create his body from his bones.

Not quite, the inquisitor eye spikes stuck out the back of the skull, so the skull itself is being spiked.

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Not quite, the inquisitor eye spikes stuck out the back of the skull, so the skull itself is being spiked.

Yes. I'd forgotten about that.
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If I had to guess, I would say that the reason the body has scars is because Kelsier sees them as part of his identity. We know that healing in the cosmere is subject heavily to a person's Cognitive aspect. Perhaps the same is true for literal possession. In which case the body could be anyone's, and the spike in his eye is what allowed the possession.

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I think that "The Sovereign" would have been purposely sent by Harmony though. He wouldn't just let the southerners die and without help they were going to.

 

 

Would Harmony have been able to see what was going on with the Southeners as they were out of his sphere of influence?

 

Maybe Kelsier went down south to see what the Ire was like in the physical world, happened to carry on to the southlands and stayed to help, with his ego and his drive it wouldn't have taken long for someone to bestow upon him a title as melodramatic as 'The Sovereign.'

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But your flesh isn't :)

Yes and no. Iirc and I may not, marrow has a high amount of adult stem cells.

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Yes and no. Iirc and I may not, marrow has a high amount of adult stem cells.

Yes, but they'd be a few years old at that point, and I think stem cells die pretty fast?

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I still think he got Spook to spike a normal man, perhaps even himself, and possessed said man somehow. The scars he made himself, because he wouldn't feel right without them.

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If the Sovereign is Kelsier, (I'm not convinced as to who it is just yet) the only way I can see him making a connection to the Physical realm is through putting his identity and memories in a spike, which would presumably have to involve shenanigans with the cognitive reflection of a spike that Kelsier knew was going to be placed in a usable body. It's already getting pretty implausible to be honest.

 

And then, he'd have to sort that out soon enough after the Catacendre to save the Malwish and other southern Scadrians, with no help from Harmony, who is off being a terrible liar somewhere else. :)

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iwinUlose2

In Mistborn 3, What happened to Kelsier's bones, and will they play any significance in any of the sequels?

Brandon Sanderson

The bones survived the events of the last book. We might see them again. Speaking of relic-like items, Sazed's rings survived as well. We might see those again.

(source)

https://www.goodreads.com/author/38550.Brandon_Sanderson/questions :

I1hUZqx.png

 

Some relevant WoBs.

 

It's a good point that Spook/Kelsier's experiments led them to a deep understanding of the Metallic Arts possibly allowing them to return Kelsier.

 

Maybe the solution involvers kandra Blessings. Since mistwraiths are people with a blockage between the Physical and Cognitive, which sounds a little similar to Kelsier's predicament.

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Maybe the solution involvers kandra Blessings. Since mistwraiths are people with a blockage between the Physical and Cognitive, which sounds a little similar to Kelsier's predicament.

Yes, but Kelsier does not have a blockage between his physical and cognitive aspects. He lacks one.

Now, how to fix this? Well, the final talk to Spook in the end looked worringly close to a demonic pact, and who is to say Kelsier wouldn't be above stealing a body for the greater good?

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Now, how to fix this? Well, the final talk to Spook in the end looked worringly close to a demonic pact, and who is to say Kelsier wouldn't be above stealing a body for the greater good?

Well that's an incredibly disturbing thought. As for the scars, don't we see several times that they throb with pain in TFE, even though its years after he was in the Pits? Either

A) They're so ingrained into his identity that they magically appear on the body he hijacked.

B) He went (more)insane and carved scars into his new bod.

Or C) The Pits have some seriously spooky(badum tsssss) investiture shenanigans going on that screwed with Kelsier's soul itself.

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I'm going to be honest, when I first saw this topic, I thought that it was about Spanky's body, as in, who was spanky? :P

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Hahaha that's another good question, though.

 

My only exception to a mistwraith body, though now, is that it seems like the Sovereign showed up pretty soon after the Catacendre, and certainly before the end of Spook's reign.  So they either figured it out really fast?  Or something else happened.

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