Secret History Reactions [Secret History Spoilers]

[Nebelskind]

Did anyone else feel at least a little sorry for Ati?

 

From the sources we have available, he seems almost as much a victim as anyone else was, and he did his best for as long as he could before the shard overwhelmed him.

 

Then, when he's finally freed, his last moment before passing on consists of getting punched in the face.

 

Yeah, poor guy, at least at that point. I wonder if he was so disoriented because Ruin was so different from Ati's personality, so we was kind of snapped out of it when he died? I mean, it doesn't seem like Sazed is too different, holding the two Shards, so maybe it causes more strain if you're the Vessel for a Shard which has an intent that fights against what your normal personality would want.

 

That would suck, though, having to be Ati and slowly get consumed by a desire to destroy everything.

 

On a different note, did someone say that Vax has been mentioned before, or did I read that wrong?

[ParadoxicalZen]

Yeah, poor guy, at least at that point. I wonder if he was so disoriented because Ruin was so different from Ati's personality, so we was kind of snapped out of it when he died? I mean, it doesn't seem like Sazed is too different, holding the two Shards, so maybe it causes more strain if you're the Vessel for a Shard which has an intent that fights against what your normal personality would want.

 

That would suck, though, having to be Ati and slowly get consumed by a desire to destroy everything.

 

On a different note, did someone say that Vax has been mentioned before, or did I read that wrong?

Vax is mentioned in the 10th Anniversary Elantris ed. Ars Arcanum, of which is still not available on UK kindle :\

[Pagerunner]

Hey, here's a question: does this count as a Conflux novella? (IIRC,  that was the term that Brandon used for a hypothetical crossover book.) He said that he might do them for release only online, since there'd be a smaller audience for them, so Secret History might fit the bill.

[Sand Master]

Just finished reading Secret History. I didn't even know this existed until I saw the mention at the end of Bands of Mourning, and I immediately started in on it. To give some context for what follows, I read almost exclusively on e-books. One of the reasons for this is so that I can highlight things of interest, particularly Cosmere-related things. Here's a list of everything I highlighted in Secret History, even if it's something that might not be overly important (such as this first one):

 

"Two tiny sources of metal still glowed fiercely there to Kelsier's eyes."

Obviously the beads of Lerasium.

 

"Cephandrius"

Clearly a pseudonym for Hoid

 

"...when he rejected the rest of us..."

The "he" here is Hoid. So the Shards were all normal people at one point? Hoid knew them all, and from the sounds of it, had an opportunity to become a Shardholder himself. That's not stated, just what the tone seems to imply.

 

"It's the world of the mind"

Something I highlighted before it became more clear that they were in Shadesmar/the Cognitive Realm. For any new Cosmere fans out there, they're the same place.

 

"'You told me this was your power,' Kelsier said, gesturing again at the Well, trying to get the god back on topic. 'That it gathers here.' 'Yes, and elsewhere.'"

It gathers somewhere besides the Well of Ascension?? Does it gather in the same way, in another Well? Does this have anything to do with the people on Southern Scadrial? Or something else entirely?

 

"You're not Connected enough to me."

We see more of this later, but it still seems pretty important. How does one form Connection? We know from Bands of Mourning that it can be stored in metalminds by Feruchemists/Ferrings. What purpose does it serve, aside from apparently making it possible for interaction between a Shard and a normal person?

 

"Senna"

Something Leras/Preservation said. Not really any context to describe who or what this is, but I would hazard a guess at another Shardholder's original name, maybe one Leras was close with before they Ascended.

 

"Khriss, of Taldain"

I had to look this one up, as I didn't realize she had already been talked about. For anyone else who is in the same spot, WOB says she's the most knowledgeable of anyone about what's going on in the Cosmere by a long shot

 

"Nazh"

Also had to look this one up. Apparently employed by Khriss, wrote messages on the map of Elendel and the sketch of the bridgemen's tattoos in Words of Radiance

 

"Ruin, Preservation, Autonomy, Cultivation, Devotion..."

This was Khriss explaining the situation to Kelsier. Just thought it was a good example of how in-the-know she is, since she at least knows all the Shards

 

"'Other planets,' she repeated gently. 'Yes, there are dozens of them.'"

Well there's only 16 Shards. Do some planets not have a Shard at all? Or are there Shards that watch over multiple planets? If it's the former, do these planets have humans? If so, are they important at all? If it's the latter, do the people on separate planets that share a Shard have some form of communication?

 

"There is an original [planet], shrouded and hidden somewhere in the cosmere. I've yet to find it, but I have found stories. Anyway, there was a God. Adonalsium. I don't know if it was a force or a being, though I suspect the latter. Sixteen people, together, killed Adonalsium, ripping it apart and dividing its essence between them, becoming the first who Ascended."

I don't think we'd ever had this information before. How did these 16 kill Adonalsium? What, or who, WAS Adonalsium before they did this, and how were 16 presumably normal people able to kill what is essentially the combined power of 16 Shards? As for the planet part, is this Yolen? If so, why is it "shrouded and hidden"?

 

"'Who were they?' Kelsier said, trying to make sense of this. 'A diverse group,' she said. 'With equally diverse motives. Some wished for the power; others saw killing Adonalsium as the only good option left to them.'"

We know from this that killing Adonalsium was no accident. People didn't stumble upon something that, when used, started a chain of events that killed Adonalsium or something like that. No, these people started out intending to kill Adonalsium. How did they come together in the first place? Why did some see killing Adonalsium as the only good option left to them? What was the alternative?

 

"Adonalsium originally created the first humans..."

I believe we knew this, but it does bring up some interesting questions. When did Adonalsium do this? Why? We know where the Shards came from, but did Adonalsium ever have a beginning, or was it always there?

 

"'The power . . . distorts,' Khriss said. 'There's a person in that somewhere, directing it. Or perhaps just riding it at this point.'"

We already know about Shardic influence, but I believe this is the first time it's mentioned outside of WOB.

 

"...perhaps if I could convince the Eyree [ire] to answer my questions..."

We find later that the Eyree (or Ire) is a group of Elantrians (Aon Ire actually means time or age) that are presumably led by the oldest among them (they use "ancient one" as a title, seemingly out of respect). Why do they exist? What answers do they have that Khriss, supposedly the most knowledgeable person in the cosmere about what's going on, does not? Why won't they answer her questions?

 

"Help you? I can't even help myself, Survivor. I'm in exile..."

Why is Khriss in exile, and what is she in exile from?

 

"Threnodite"

Apparently people from Threnody are clashing with those from Sel, here.

 

"A large yellow gemstone the size of Kelsier's fist shone in the center, glowing even more brightly than the walls. That gem was surrounded by a lattice of golden metal holding it in place. All told, it was the size of a desk clock."

This is particularly interesting. It sounds just like a Rosharan fabrial, one of the ones used to tell when people are near. That is what they seem to use it for, but they somehow have it tuned to people of a specific shardworld, rather than anyone at all. Furthermore, I am curious as to how fabrials can work in the Cognitive Realm. To my understanding, they are powered by spren trapped inside the gemstone. However, in the Cognitive Realm, would that spren still be trapped? It seems odd to me if it would be, but maybe since it is trapped in the Physical Realm, it has to stay that way in the Cognitive Realm as well.

 

"'I must speak with the rest of the Ire.' As she said the word, this time Kelsier got a sense of its meaning in the language of the green plants. It meant age, and he had a sudden impression of a strange symbol made from four dots and some lines that curved, like ripples in a river."

This was, for me, the hint that drove the point home. At the description of the symbol I thought it sounded like an Aon, and looked in the Ars Arcanum for Elantris. And right there, under Aon Ire, was the symbol described here.

 

"The beings all had that same silvery skin, though two were a shade darker than the rest."

More proof that these are indeed Elantrians. And the two that have darker skin, Dulas? Maybe one is Galladon? And one's name is Elrao. I wonder if that's a name Raoden chose for himself.

 

"Vax?"

For some reason Ati says this as he looks around, confused, after dying. Maybe he Ascended on Vax, lost his mind after that due to Ruin, and is now confused that he is no longer there?

 

"They sat there together. Two friends at the edge of the world, at the end and start of time."

This one is a bit odd. It really struck a chord in me, and I was distinctly reminded of the passage in Words of Radiance, where Hoid says, "Two blind men waited at the end of an era, contemplating beauty. They sat atop the world's highest cliff, overlooking the land and seeing nothing." Now, obviously neither Kelsier nor Sazed are blind, but they could be considered so if you were speaking metaphorically. They are (at the time) blind to the dangers that the other Shards (like Odium) represent, and seem to think that all the big problems are over. Of course, when Hoid says this in Words of Radiance, he is using it to teach a lesson. Still, I think it may have some significance.

 

 

Well, I know that was really long. Let me know what you guys think, or if I missed something.

[Fuzz]

Hello.

I made an account yesterday and hope I am not breaking any rules.

I think that kelsier made a body for himself that copied his cognitive self the same way hoid did when he entered the real world.

I havnt seen any others who thought this and wanted to point out my thoughts on the matter.

[Curious Anamaximder]

Hello.

I made an account yesterday and hope I am not breaking any rules.

I think that kelsier made a body for himself that copied his cognitive self the same way hoid did when he entered the real world.

I havnt seen any others who thought this and wanted to point out my thoughts on the matter.

Your name is the best !!!

[Senor Feesh]

storm. I nerdgasmed so hard reading this. Like, even by the end of chapter one. I can't even process it all right now.

Someone asked earlier how Kelsier was able to speak with Spook even though Preservation wouldn't grant that power - it's via Connection. Spook BELIEVED in Kell, more fully than anyone, forming a stronger bond of Connection that he could use (it's alluded to in the text somewhere, but not explicit I think).

[Asperity]

The bit about some of the original Shardholders believing that killing Adonalsium was a good thing makes me think that perhaps they were part of the opposition to destroy Adonalsium. Then again, I'm sure this is wholly incorrect. Makes me wonder how many of the other original Shardholders (besides Rayse) know/knew about the 'enemy'. Might make sense to 'shroud' Yolen (if that is the planet being shrouded) since it held original humans and was the 'first' planet, so to speak.

 

Kinda bummed we weren't given another Shard name reveal. Ah well. Fun story.

[Landis963]

Kinda bummed we weren't given another Shard name reveal. Ah well. Fun story.

 

Take heart.  We only learned everything there could possibly be to know about how one survives in the Cognitive Realm.  

[Meg]

To be honest: IMHO MSH should have been released in a few month when the first excitement after Bands of Mourning was gone.
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But be it as it is, it's out now.
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Though I'm sure I have a heart (*smile* @ Voidus) I didn't get very emotional while reading it. I am positively surprised by Kelsier being (or acting) not as arrogant as he did in TFE. 

.

So, yes, Khriss!

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Hoid interfering doesn't take me wonder, though. 

.

Thinking of Hoid and Spanky (btw: what's it about Spanky, I don't recall such a person?) I wonder how Khriss and Nazh as well as the *Elantrians* and their guards wanted to travel the land? Hoid said (as I recall it) that a physical person would fall down in the mists even possibly forever? Would there be enough rivers to stretch from one coast to another? Is there another *shardpool* for traveling between the realms? 

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Also I wonder if it is really necessary to run around in the Cognitive Realm as one does in the Physical? Wouldn't one be able to *will* oneself to another location? At least if one is a Cognitive Shadow? 

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Did I miss it or was the name "Leras" really never mentioned? Yeah, Ati was mentioned, but never Leras. Or am I blind?

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Oh, there are lots of other thoughts in my brain twirling around.

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All in all: Thank you, Mr. Sanderson, for letting us see behind the 

[Jakobus]

This book made me so excited I cleaned my apartment after I finished it. And I remade my account cause my roommate is slow and has only read Bands of Mourning and I need to get my Cosmere fix! 

[Shardbearer]

So... Vessel. That's the term we should all be using instead of "Shardholder". Helps clear up some confusion with the term Shardbearer.

 

And I knew there had to be something more to Kelsier picking up Preservation for a bit. Otherwise, any random Cognitive Shadow could simply grab a Shard's power after the Vessel dies. Of course, if he was more Connected to Preservation, he would have been able to just pick up the power...

 

And apparently wouldn't be able to do much with it as a Shadow.

 

Shades from Threnody. Are they something anyone traveling the Cognitive Realm needs to be wary of?

 

What are the plants that grow where there is water in the Physical Realm? Even just a glass of water will sprout one of these plants.

 

And apparently, you can't just will yourself to transport around in the CR.

 

So much cool info in this novella!

[Asperity]

A quick addition:

 

I thought Dockson "cursing Kelsier as he died" felt very out of character. IIRC, Dockson was basically Kelsier's right-hand man, and Dockson even somewhat-martyred himself, dying so others could escape. That type of position and behavior does not sound right for someone who would be upset at Kelsier upon death. Just my thoughts.

[Pechvarry]

Liked secret history.. Kinda felt like fan service though. You know. For us.

It's really nice to have a lot of stuff we know through WoB canonized.

[Blaze1616]

What

 

what are Elantrians

 

doing on Scadrial

 

with a Rosharan fabrial

 

what 

 

It could have been an Elantrian fabrial, though. They have the ability to make them using AonDor (though it would require a hack to get it to work over near Scadrial - perhaps that's why the stones making the fortress are glowing?)

[DreamEternal]

Wow. Secret History was way better than BoM in my opinion. Some times I almost cried, and some times I felt so furious.

Now, fot some more especific things, was I the only one who felt bad for Ati when Kel punched him? And who thinks the talk between Spook and Kelsier in the end hit too close to some sort of archetypal demonic pact? Asking him to wield dark arts to give him a hold into the material world, under the promise of immortality...

Edited February 1, 2016 by DreamEternal

[Senor Feesh]

And who thinks the talk between Spook and Kelsier in the end hit too close to some sort of archetypal demonic pact? Asking him to wield dark arts to give him a hold into the material world, under thd promise of immortality...

 

 

We could be immortals! But not for long...

[Full Metal Rithmatist]

I've always loved the genre-hopping in Brandon's short standalones: Shadows for Silence let him tell a ghost story, Sixth of Dusk was a tropical adventure, AoL was a western, etc.  I felt like this novella was a Grimms-esque fairy-tale, or a myth about a trickster-god.

 

 

 

I found it almost lovecraftian. kelsier wandering alone in this dark, silent and misty world where the sky is blotted out by a dark writhing mass of tentacles that are the form of an evil god. A realm of the mind, where the only people he can speak to are the insane.

[DreamEternal]

I found it almost lovecraftian. kelsier wandering alone in this dark, silent and misty world where the sky is blotted out by a dark writhing mass of tentacles that are the form of an evil god. A realm of the mind, where the only people he can speak to are the insane.

True, I felt it too. Especialy the parts with Leras slowly fading away...

We all will miss you, Fuzzy.

Ps: I also felt sorry for you Ati. That last punch was downright mean, even if very understandable.

[Khyrindor]

Gonna post my reactions before I read through the rest of yours. 

 

First of all, wow! Cosmere stuff galore! Now, from the beginning:

 

There were tears when Kell held Vin's face after he died. 

 

Okay, "Fuzz's" clothing is certainly interesting.

 

I didn't realize how much I'd missed Kelsier. 

We finally know why Kell hates Hoid! Ha! Just because of a (rather terrible) insult! And I never would have expected Hoid to be so brutal to Kell. 

 

Okay, so Worldhopping works by going into the Cognitive Realm fully, and the only way most people can do that is my finding a Shardpool, which Worldhoppers call Perpendicularities. Cool. So they can't teleport (usually), they actually have to travel all that distance.

 

So, since Demoux becomes a Worldhopper later, I guess he can just use the Shardpool, right? He doesn't need some kind of fancy magic like Jasnah. I wonder if you can cross over to another world when you're only partially in Shadesmar.

 

Kell's reaction to Dox and Clubs' deaths. 

 

Whole Khriss and Nazh scene reactions, spoilered for length:

 

So Khriss and Nazh don't like Hoid, probably because they are part of the Seventeenth Shard and some of their members hunt him later. 

 

Khriss has a gun. Interesting. And they gave him real names. And they can recognize Kell on sight, so they must have seen him before. Maybe we can spot Nazh in one of his meetings. 

 

It's amusing that Nazh keeps swearing by "Shadows." Doesn't he realize it makes him stand out?

 

More confirmation that Kell is a Cognitive Shadow. I wonder how the Shades expand then?

 

BoM spoiler:

Khriss looks "in her thirties," so younger than in BoM when she dances with Wax.

 

They seem to be giving information quite freely to him. Is this the first time it has been expressed in universe that there are other planets? Khriss name drops Taldain and Threnody. 

 

Preservation apparently knows about them.

 

Lel. Nazh is so incredulous. 

 

They have camping chairs. Cool. I wonder how long these journeys take, and where they're headed.

 

Nazh reminds me of Kaladin mixed with Galladon. He's so grumpy. I love it.

 

Kell's trying to intimidate them and they're like "Cute." 

 

I wonder what happens if you get killed in the Cognitive Realm. Do you just go Beyond, or what?

 

Splintering a Shard seems common to them, and takes a knowledge on how to do it. They don't think Ati knows how. Noted.

 

First mention of Autonomy outside of WoB. Why couldn't she have names some that we don't know?

 

Khriss seems like a nice person.

 

According to Khriss, the 16 Vessels killed Adonalsium. Therefore it wasn't an accident, and those people were for sure involved. Wow. A huge dump of Cosmere information. 

 

So, Adonalsium created the first humans.

 

Khriss wants to witness a Shard's death that isn't a Splintering, and hopes to find it instructive.

 

They would have helped if Kell hadn't destroyed Ruin's Shardpool.

 

I wonder how they intend to witness Preservation's death from afar?

 

Khriss is in exile?

 

And Nazh turned out to be a nice guy to Kell. Awesome. Favourite scene.

 

 

The Ire. They died but did not. Shaod?

 

I got very very excited when I realized Kell was going not to South Scadrial, but to another planet.

 

Awe. Poor Fuzz. 

 

Spiritual Realm!!! Ooooh!

 

Kelsier seems to have mastered what Shallan could not. Fire.

 

I wonder what planet this is? The Ire are obviously Sellish, but seem to be a secret society. I don't think this is actually Sel's Cognitive Realm, since there's no Plasma floating around. Maybe they're camped on a minor Shardworld. 

 

Some possible connections I thought of involving the Ire:

I think we have another cosmere secret organization to join the Seventeen Shard and the Ghostbloods. They seem interested in collecting Shards, and acting as border control. Khriss didn't seem hostile to them, so they aren't enemies of the Seventeenth Shard (though they didn't seem to like Nazh much). They actually seem most cosmere aware than anyone. I assume that stuff they're carrying in spheres is the Dor, so they can keep alive and use it for connections to things. I wonder why Preservation calls them "dead but not" even though Raoden restored Elantris? 

 

BoM spoilers:

 

Could the "Ancient Ones" be the Set's Immortals? If they have members and powers from many Shards, then they could be from Dominion as well...

 

Do we have confirmation that the space people that show up on First of the Sun are from Scadrial? If not, could they be the Ire? It would fit with what we know of their motives.

 

Also, Fortune? I suppose it could be a new Shard... if the Ire are collecting them, I wonder how many they have?

 

Totally love how Kell scared them!   Fantastic!

 

And back to Scadrial. Love the parallels with HoA.

 

Vin with Hoid!!! So THAT's why she felt uneasy. It's so sad to picture that though. All this time, Kell's watching out for her.

 

And there is the answer to when Kell held Preservation. Cool.

 

And Spook. My favourite person in HoA. Kell was so sweet with him. Poor kid. 

 

Vin and Elend! We finally get some closure with their deaths. Kell's sticking around and Saze won't let him back to the Physical Realm. Ruin said something about Vax, which I think was a Shardworld mentioned in the Elantris Ars Arcanum. What made him ask that? 

 

Spook and Kell gonna work together? I'm all for more Kelsier adventures! And I for one have no problem with Spook experimenting with Hemalurgy. Perhaps we'll be seeing him again too. 

 

This book made me so happy. Thank you so much, Brandon!

 

 

 

 

 

[thanners]

A quick addition:

 

I thought Dockson "cursing Kelsier as he died" felt very out of character. IIRC, Dockson was basically Kelsier's right-hand man, and Dockson even somewhat-martyred himself, dying so others could escape. That type of position and behavior does not sound right for someone who would be upset at Kelsier upon death. Just my thoughts.

I'm not sure why people have issues with line now, in this book. Dox did curse him as he died:

(From Well of Ascension):

"Dockson gritted his teeth, sending a final curse Kelsier’s way, then charged, swinging."

[Landis963]

I'm not sure why people have issues with line now, in this book. Dox did curse him as he died:

(From Well of Ascension):

"Dockson gritted his teeth, sending a final curse Kelsier’s way, then charged, swinging."

 

Good find.  I for one had completely forgotten that line.  

[Curiosity]

Did anyone find that Ati's reaction to dropping into the Cognitive Realm was similar to the people who were part of the koloss? Warped souls, controlled minds... Neither seemed to really know what's going on when they came through. 

[Wubdor]

Khriss showing up and just flat out stating her name like that has to be the highlight of anything cosmere for me (especially because White Sand is my favourite cosmere novel after FE).

Though Kelsier decking Leras. Probably the funniest moment so far. The way it was executed was perfect. I love Kelsier.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Wubdor

[Asperity]

Good find.  I for one had completely forgotten that line.  

Same. Been years since I've read the original trilogy.