Spren on Scadrial?

[Master_Moridin]

The WoB only indicates humans and listeners existed before the Shattering, not that humans existed on Roshar before the Shattering. We have many indications this was not the case, such as the listeners being called the "ancient ones" and the Vorin teachings that mankind arrived on Roshar after being forced from the Tranquiline Halls.

 

For some reason I read the "both of these strains of humanoids" part as referring to Herdazians and Horneaters.

 

Oh well.

[Moogle]

For some reason I read the "both of these strains of humanoids" part as referring to Herdazians and Horneaters.

 

Oh well.

 

Hm. You might be right, actually. I might be the one misinterpreting it. I'm not sure. But I still lean towards humans not coming to Roshar before H&C.

[Master_Moridin]

Should probably ask for clarification on that WoB then at some point.

[iBambam]

iBambam – Spren do NOT exist in the Cognitive Realm. Only ideas reside there. Ideas do not become spren (“living ideas” according to Jasnah) UNTIL they migrate to the Physical Realm. (Btw, is your name a Flintstones' reference?)

I’m inclined to agree with Pathfinder. The spren are probably bonded to a Worldhopper who is either a native Rosharan or who visited Roshar and became bonded.

Well first off, that's not true, as someone else pointed out lol and second, as for my user name, it's not a Flintstones reference, it deals with my actual name.

[Weltall]

For some reason I read the "both of these strains of humanoids" part as referring to Herdazians and Horneaters.

 

Oh well.

 

My own interpretation is that he's talking about humans and Listeners and being very Aes Sedai about the former. We already know humans were around before the Shattering and the sixteen Shards so what he's really saying there is that the Listeners evolved independently (or were created by Adonalsium, maybe?) before the Shattering rather than being an offshoot of humanity. That's how I read it at any rate.

[JosephOfHathsin]

What if your more likely to see spren on a shardworld with more than 1 shard on it cause of some magical residue the shards might create? (Like bursting through some kind of ozone layer that leaks the cognitive realm)It would make sense in a way, and maybe they're not as prominent on Sel since Devotion and Dominion died, woah. Guys, we just cracked the Cosmere. Lol

[DrakeMarshall]

Well, the term "spren" is sort of broad.

 

On Roshar, spren refer to the beings that dwell in the cognitive realm. Most people only see them manifested in the physical world, however.

 

Presumably the presence of humanity and investiture on a planet would necessarily create some degree of cognitive beings. Which are basically spren.

 

The difference is, on Roshar, for some reason, these beings have more power to enter the physical world, and tend to be more intelligent. They might well be present on other worlds, but just not quite so powerful or intelligent.

 

I am inclined to believe this is a result of the fact that people form nahel bonds on this world. In short, these cognitive beings form the medium of the magic system of the world. Spren become something more on roshar, much like metals become something more on Scadrial.

 

Another possible reason spren are more intelligent and visible in the physical realm on Roshar is because the shards present on Roshar actively caused this. Spren of roshar all flow from honor, cultivation, or odium.

 

It is quite possible that spren exist everywhere else, simply in a lesser state.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Drake Marshall

[Master_Moridin]

There were spren on Roshar before Honor, Cultivation, and Odium showed up
 

Wetlander
Please explain what you will about Shards and Splintering and Slivers.

Brandon Sanderson
An event happened long ago which destroyed something called Adonalsium into 16 pieces. And 16 people took up that power.

Question
People?

Brandon Sanderson
I call all intelligent species people. If someone takes up the power and lets go of it, it has the effect much like a balloon that's been stretched and then the air is let out. I call that a Sliver; based off of the Lord Ruler calling himself the "Sliver of Infinity". The Lord Ruler is someone who held the power and then released it. And so, current Slivers are the Lord Ruler, Kelsier, and there may be others around who at one point held the power and let go of it. A Splinter is a term used by certain people in the cosmere for power of Adonalsium which has no person caring for it, no... no person holding it, which has attained self-awareness.

Wetlander
So is that like the mists and the Well? Are they...

Brandon Sanderson
They are not, because they have not attained self-awareness. But, the Seons are self-aware. So, any piece, for instance there were some spren on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation got there. Those were already Splinters of Adonalsium where he had left power which attained sentience on its own. So, it can be intentional is what I am saying, does that make sense? You have seen other splinters.

Wetlander
Are the highstorms related to the splintering of Honor?

Brandon Sanderson
The highstorms are more related to the mist from Mistborn which terminology we have not discussed yet. You have seen splinters quite a bit on various planets.
(source)

 
To me it seems as if Roshar allows for leaks of Investiture into the Cognitive and Physical, giving life to cognitive entities in a way they weren't before, giving us spren.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Master_Moridin

[icy1155]

There were spren on Roshar before Honor, Cultivation, and Odium showed up

Brandon Sanderson

They are not, because they have not attained self-awareness. But, the Seons are self-aware. So, any piece, for instance there were some spren on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation got there. Those were already Splinters of Adonalsium where he had left power which attained sentience on its own. So, it can be intentional is what I am saying, does that make sense? You have seen other splinters

 

edit: emphasis mine

 

 

 

Did anyone else notice that Brandon basically confirmed that Adonalsium was indeed a person, and it was a male?  I had completely missed that before, and I had read the WoB a few times.

Edited January 26, 2016 by icy1155

[DreamEternal]

Did anyone else notice that Brandon basically confirmed that Adonalsium was indeed a person, and it was a male?

Well, WoR talked about Adonalsium's touch and design, implying a sentient mind. And Brandon using "he" does not prove much, since people often to default to male pronouns.

[Rockbud]

I asked Brandon about the nature of Adonalsium last year at a SoS signing. At the time at least, he said he'd RAFO because he hadn't decided what Adonalsium was yet. (being/force etc)

[DrakeMarshall]

What Sazed has done in uniting multiple shards sort of implies that adolnasium was a consciousness directing all sixteen shards as one being. It is interesting that Sazed intuitively realizes that these powers were not meant to remain separate when he becomes harmony.

In some sense, the shards of adolnasium are a bit like splinters of a shard...

[Ari]

Whats driving me crazy is I instantly want to know what type of spren are there 

 

I'd be willing to bet they're elsecaller Spren. (not specifically the Spren from the one order named Elsecallers, I mean the two orders that can Elsecall)

 

I am going to need to a WoB on this one.

 

Let's see... the Stormfather being a Cognitive Shadow, check, not that that's the relevant part.

 

I can't find anything for him being a Spren before he was a cognitive shadow, and the Stormfather confirms in-world that he is in fact a Spren as well, (he answers "both" when Dalinar asks if he's a Spren or a God) but I'm gonna say we don't have any WoB logged or searchable online to say that the Stormfather existed as a spren without being a cognitive shadow. It is possible that certain living beings might have a cognitive shadow and that the Stormfather existed before Honour died, but speculating that entails a good deal of RAFO in my opinion.

 

It's possible that Tanavast's ghost is so intermixed with the cognitive ideas of the Stormfather that he did in fact merge into another pre-existing Spren to make the stormfather. But yeah, I'm with you on wanting WoB before I consider that theory likely, as we've never heard of spren working that way before.

 

The Listeners know the Stormfather as Rider of the Storm, and they said He was one of the Spren that betrayed them, giving their power to the Humans.

 

Therefore the Stormfather existence (at least as Rider of the Storm) predate the Honor's Death (and maybe the H&C arrive on Roshar at all).

 

There is a lot of confusion around Jezrien vs Tanavast's shadow vs Honour himself. Eshonai could realistically be referring to any of the three, although Jezrien is probably the least likely. The fact that she could be referring to Honour before he died kinda blows that justification out of the water in my opinion.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Ari

[Loialty loailty loailty]

I wanted to know are Khriss and Nazh looking for Spren on Scadrial in Bands of Mourning when they put out their Ad asking "does your metal talk to you, if so please come to..."?  I don't remember the address, but remember the broad sheet Ad being right after Wax meets Khriss. 

[teknopathetic]

47 minutes ago, Loialty loailty loailty said:

I wanted to know are Khriss and Nazh looking for Spren on Scadrial in Bands of Mourning when they put out their Ad asking "does your metal talk to you, if so please come to..."?  I don't remember the address, but remember the broad sheet Ad being right after Wax meets Khriss. 

We have a recent WOB saying that they weren't looking for "Awakening" in particular, but were looking for "weirdness".

My guess is that Kriss and Nahz are investigating a chain of events that has been resulting in Feruchemically Awakened Objects (no breath required).

Full Mistborn Era 1 Spoilers and Itsy Bitsy Era 2 Spoilers

Spoiler

1. Many of the Feruchemists were killed in and before Mistborn era 1. Those people's metal-minds were abandoned since metal-minds are (usually) unless if the creator is dead.

2. So now we have metal-minds with a lot of investiture locked-in. Over a lifetime a Feruchemist could store quite a bit of investiture in their metal-minds. 

3. Presumably there are meal-minds out there that are over 2000 years old. We know that overtime investiture can become sentient. Becoming sentient seems a tad easier if the invested object/force literally has been imbued with "memories" or other sentient attributes. 

4. . It seems reasonable that if you took a metal-mind that had a lot of stored investiture eventually it could become sentient. Heck, how were those hammers made? Was electricity involved? Could that be doing something as well?

Conclusion:

Nahz is looking for appliances that were constructed from metal-mind materials because that combination can result in something pretty close to awakening. Instead of breathe, the metal item has stored feruchemical investiture, and the item is given "a body" which allows it to move and communicate. Honestly it sounds a little like an Aon mixed with a type 4 Awakened Object, but fueled by Feruchemy, and possibly electricity. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by teknopathetic

[Loialty loailty loailty]

24 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

  Hide contents

 

We have a recent WOB saying that they weren't looking for "Awakening" in particular, but were looking for "weirdness".

My guess is that Kriss and Nahz are investigating a chain of events that has been resulting in Feruchemically Awakened Objects (no breath required).

Full Mistborn Era 1 Spoilers and Itsy Bitsy Era 2 Spoilers

 

I like that idea. Do you think that those objects would take on the personality of the dead feruchemist or would they have their own unique personality born out of being "dormant" for so long. Like could we find tindwyl popping back up in the form of a politicians pen or something?

[teknopathetic]

2 minutes ago, Loialty loailty loailty said:

I like that idea. Do you think that those objects would take on the personality of the dead feruchemist or would they have their own unique personality born out of being "dormant" for so long. Like could we find tindwyl popping back up in the form of a politicians pen or something?

I was wondering about this too. THe problem is that one metal only stores one attribute, so I don't think there would be enough "Tindwyl" in an one item. Now, if we made a cyborg out of all of Tywndwil's metalminds then maybe!

I think it would be beautiful if the memories of the Keepers were actually recovered and those protected memories could be used in universities to help educate the words(s).