Official Star Wars Episode VII SPOILER Thread

[+Slowswift]

 

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles]

 

Because I had to cry and now so do you.

[Kaymyth]

 

The feeeeeels

[Stormgate]

I find the post being discussed very informative on why Ben survived angering a Wookie.

[Voidus]

I find the post being discussed very informative on why Ben survived angering a Wookie.

Snoke: I suggest a new strategy Kylo. Let the Wookie win.

[Claincy]

That popped up on my facebook feed earlier today, it's now part of my internal canon for star wars, it's too perfect not to be.

[Kobold King]

Saw this a couple of days ago. I have never been more enraptured by a Star Wars film.

 

 

I mean, really. I've never been much of a Star Wars fan, but this movie turned my perceptions around, to the point that the only thing I felt was holding it back was its insistence on mirroring the original trilogy's galactic setup.

 

First, my problems. That way I can end optimistically.

 

 

First of all. What the sparks does the galaxy's political structure look like these days? The First Order clearly has the military and economic high ground. I mean, why shouldn't they? It's not like the Empire would have fallen overnight, and I applaud the movie for making the galaxy feel more real by including a rogue faction of Imperial troops that are continuing the fight.

 

However... really, what is the First Order? To have built something like Starkiller Base it must have controlled territory, and quite a lot of it. But we're also told right from the opening crawl that there's a Republic. The Nazi guys speech to the stormtroopers towards the end talks about "the Republic government supporting the Resistance." What's going on here? Is the Galaxy split into two different nations, the Republic and the First Order, with the Resistance representing an unofficial fighting force that's not-so-secretly funded by the Republic? Which state currently has the most power?

 

There are a lot of fascinating ways to interpret the relationship between the Republic and the First Order, but I feel the movie would have been stronger by making it just a little more clear what this relationship was. As it is, the speeches about bringing down the Republic just made me scratch my head.

 

 

Second: the Starkiller Base. This was basically a bigger, better Death Star that takes advantage of Disney's special effects budget by sucking stars dry. Setting aside the fact that draining the burning gas out of a star would take way more energy than you could hope to get out of the venture, it feels unnecessary and kind of makes the First Order look like a bunch of morons. The Death Star model of galactic warfare failed twice already, and the second instance of one's construction wound up losing the Battle of Endor and the Emperor's life. Did you guys just think that the third time would be the charm, or what?

 

I thought it was pretty neat that they built into the core of a planet instead of building it all in space, though. I would have forgiven it all if we'd gotten a proper shot of the view from right over one of those trenches.

 

Third. This is a purely subjective one. I did not find C-3PO and R2-D2's appearances to be particularly edifying or amusing. I'm sure a lot of people loved seeing them again, though, so I'll lay off of this point. I won't even talk about how much I feel their roles should have been cut out in exchange for more Maz time.

 

...Whoops. Forget I said that, droid fans.

 

 

Now, to the stuff I loved!

 

The new characters we were introduced to were incredible.

 

 

Fin's introduction, staggering around as if blindsided by the horror of war, was perhaps the most powerful moment I've yet seen in a Star Wars movie. It struck me right in the emotions and didn't let up. From the second he knelt in the dust beside his dying co-patriot to the time he took off his helmet was all it took to make me keenly sympathize with this character. The tragic backstory he shares with every other stormtrooper only solidified his awesome status for me, and going against all of his brainwashing to do what he feels is right makes him perhaps the most heroic character in the entire Star Wars universe. I especially love how underneath all his training there remained a stubborn piece of chivalry, which thoroughly annoyed his lady co-star.

 

 

Speaking of which, Rey is a shining example of a strong female protagonist done right. She's pragmatic but with a strong moral core, as we see in her intercessions on behalf of BB-8. She skilled in a variety of areas, but not in the manner of a Mary Sue; her talents are natural things for her to have learned in the harsh environment she's been raised in. She starts out reserved, but over the course of the film we see more open, even excitable facets of her character.

 

And while it's a sad world in which this is even worth mentioning, I feel the need to bring it up: the film makes no move to objectify her. There is no metal bikini scene. There is no monster that conveniently bares her midriff with a bizarrely precise claw stroke. She's not just a strong female character. She's a strong character, period; her sex could be flipped any which way and the movie would unfold in exactly the same way.

 

The one problem I have is that I sense in the Force that Rey will get revealed to be related to a classic character, probably winding up as either Luke Skywalker's or Obi-Wan Kenobi's daughter. I'd much rather she be entirely new blood for the Star Wars universe. But no matter who she's related with, she'll remain one of my favorite characters from this movie.

 

 

Kylo Ren, on the other hand, benefits from being descended from established characters. It makes up the foundation of his character thus far. I admit to having rolled my eyes at him from the start, feeling that he was an unimaginative rip-off of Darth Vader. Even though he impressed me early on with his awesome Force powers, I had the nagging feeling in the back of my mind that the design staff was trying too hard to make him Vader 2.0.

 

But as it turns out, that was exactly the point. Ben Solo-Organa, in circumstances left off-screen, became obsessed with becoming as powerful as Darth Vader. He modeled himself after him, even acted like him in every way, when he was in reality just a scared, terrified young adult who was trying too hard to be Vader 2.0.

 

The almost petulant bouts of destructive rage he shows become more powerful. Through Kylo Ren we see a more visceral demonstration of how the Dark Side corrupts than the prequels ever did. Ben Solo-Organa is just a normal young man, with all the fears and insecurities that target his age. (That's how the Emo Kylo Ren trend took off as much as it did.) The difference between Kylo and the average young adult, however, is that Ben had the misfortune of living in a universe with a malevolent natural force that sought to corrupt him and bend him to its will.

 

 

You know who I really love, though? Maz. She's a thousand years old at the very least, and she's watched the galaxy's history unfold. She's a lot like Yoda in that respect, but let's look at their different worldviews:

 

Yoda: "Been Jedi Master for one thousand years, I have. Do things exactly the same every century, I will. Intimidate small children for being frightened, I will. Enforce ancient monastic traditions even when they're clearly ruining an impulsive Jedi Knight's life, I will. Make any kind of concession to new ways of doing things, I will not."

 

Maz: "Anyone wanna do business at my market here on this nice jungle planet? Cool. I'm gonna get to know each of my clientele by name, even though they come and go constantly and die in only a fraction of my lifespan. I'm going to recognize evil in all of its forms and care more about what it's doing than what name it goes by. And if anyone comes along to blow up my market, I'm just going to stay behind and rebuild it like it's no big deal. It's happened before, it'll happen again, no point in getting down about it!"

 

Maz is like a streetwise, adaptable Yoda. A streetwise, adaptable Yoda who calls Chewbacca her boyfriend. She doesn't try to put herself in the most influential seat in the galaxy or enforce rules for the sake of rules. She's like life itself, enduring and lasting through all the millennia and through all the wickedness those millennia bring.

 

I love you, Maz. You're my new favorite character.

 

 

 

Anyone I'm missing?

 

Oh yeah. BB-8 is a round metal ball of raw emotion.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Kobold King

[Stormgate]

I loved BB-8. If he isn't in the next one, I will be very disappointed. BB-8 is like a puppy.

[Briar King]

No worries. It ll be in every Saga film after that reception it got.

[Delightful]

I'd also very very much prefer Rey to be new blood, the way it seems to go is that she's most likely related. I can hold out hope for at least another movie/until it's confirmed either way.

I was googline images of her to draw, and nothing objectifying came up either. It was great  I did not have the same experience googling Gogo from Big Hero 6. Seriously people???

 

There was also a thing going around the other day, someone took a screenshot of Phasma and asked the Star Wars Twitter "Hey this doesn't look like female armour to me," and the official response was "its armour. On a woman. It doesn't have to look feminine". Because seriously, imagine (or dont) stormtroopers in bikini armour. That would be ridiculous.

 

BB-8 is best.

[Iarwainiel I]

I'd also very very much prefer Rey to be new blood...

 

I totally agree - too much "generations" stuff in a lot of SFF. I'd like to see someone new.

 

Also, the "female armor" thing has been done to death. Don't even bother googling it - some arguments have been pretty intense, enough so that I usually just back away. Hmmm... so is that where new suits of armor come from: a "male" suit of armor gets together with a "female" one in the clost while no one is looking? Just imagine, rows and rows of "child" armor growing up and going off to battle. Here's a better idea: take a moment or three to view this classic Danny Kaye video - it's a clip from "The Court Jester" where guys in chainmail armor do a routine like a marching band but in double-time. "Yea, verily, yea!"

Edited January 17, 2016 by old aggie

[Briar King]

I'm copying this from Malazan cause it's just to funny not to.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FaOSCASqLsE

[+Slowswift]

 

ETA: waiT WHAT BILL WEASLEY IS GENERAL HUX??!??!!

Edited January 21, 2016 by Slowswift

[Bort]

There were a few moments during the movie that made me wince, but that is only because I am a major Star Wars fan, and they kinda dumped in a few technical impossibilities.

 

Rey was great, and my current thinking is that she is either Luke's or Leia's daughter. Yes, Leia probably should have remembered if she was hers, but when Ben went to the Dark Side and became Kylo Ren, what if Luke took precautions to protect the youngest Solo? He hid her away, erased memories from Han, Leia, and Chewie, so Kylo Ren could never find out about her.

 

At least, that's my crazy idea.

 

BB-8 was cute. I was expecting him to be annoying, but was pleasantly surprised. Couldn't help but laugh out loud when he started purring when Rey first says he can go home with her. I also liked that they showed you how he got around, being very careful on the stairs, and with the grapple/tether cables. His hidden storage compartment doesn't look big enough to fit a lightsaber though.

 

I found Finn a little annoying at first. Raised practically from birth to be a Stormtrooper, and having a panic attack on the mission? That really doesn't say much about the First Order's training regime. He became less irritating later on though.

 

Poe was perfect. The absolute depiction of the brash, hot shot pilot. Needed more screen time, but that may just be my love of X-Wings coming through.

 

Phasma needed more screen time, and needed to be seen kicking chull more.

 

Kylo Ren was excellent. Not only did he manage to come across as evil, he also managed to capture that whining teenager feel that we got from Anakin in episode two. His temper tantrums were particularly funny, and like pretty much everyone else here, seeing the two Stormtroopers walk in, see him smashing stuff, turn around and leave sharply was very amusing. I can't help but feel though, Vader, watching from beyond the grave, would be so disappointed. Ren has none of his poise or self control.

 

There have been many people who seem to have a problem with how Rey is able to defeat Ren at the end of the movie. This is something I thought was very well done, from a purely geekery point of view. You see, the Dark Side of the Force is all about power. You take the Force, and bend it to your purpose. The Light Side of the Force, however, is about guidance. You open yourself up to the Force, and it guides you.

[Briar King]

Ep 8 pushed back to Dec 15 2017 instead of May 2017.

[Iarwainiel I]

I just saw the movie for the 3rd time & caught a couple more things:

 

I think Han & Leia both know who Rey is, and they both decided not to tell her.

 

In the film, Rey is 19 years old. The young Rey in the flashback looks to be maybe 8 or 9 (?) years old, so she's been on Jakku - and Luke has been in hiding - about 10 years. I wonder if he hasn't been aware of everything that's been going on, through the Force. But what if he also knows, through the Force, what will happen - not what needs to happen, but what will happen, like prophecy.

 

Looking at Luke's face at the end, I could pretty clearly see tears in his eyes. To me, his expression is someone who is facing a tragedy he always knew would happen but wished with all his heart that it could be avoided - a dread, like "Oh no ... the day has come at last. There is such pain ahead of us." (To any CSL fans, it's like when Ransom is telling the Green Lady on Perelandra about the fall of his human ancestors: "There may be such a thing that you would cut off both your arms and legs to prevent it happening - and yet it it happens...")

 

I also think that Luke can somehow control R2, even from a great distance. Whether he modified him somehow or what-not, I think R2 woke up because Luke told him to, when his Jedi-sense told him Rey had "awakened."

 

When Finn wakes up, he'll face a re-education about everything he was taught - that was foreshadowed when Rey called Han Solo "the war hero" and Finn said he was "the smuggler." I expect he'll gladly learn better ways, but tearing down one's presuppositions is never easy. I hope they show this - it's a great concept to explore. [edit: added this paragraph that I forgot earlier]

 

Finally, to me it seems obvious that they are setting up Rey-Finn-Poe as a love triangle. I suspect they wanted to do that with Leia-Luke-Han in the original trilogy but then needed a different dynamic between Luke and Leia when they chose to have him be Vader's son. Rey and Poe are both pilots and will have a workplace/colleague relationship that Finn will misinterpret ... pretty much standard movie plotline. I know some folks are shipping Finn & Poe - VIII & IX might well have that dynamic, but I don't think it'll be between the principle 3 characters.
 

Edited January 24, 2016 by old aggie

[Curious Anamaximder]

I just saw the movie for the 3rd time & caught a couple more things:

 

I think Han & Leia both know who Rey is, and they both decided not to tell her.

 

In the film, Rey is 19 years old. The young Rey in the flashback looks to be maybe 8 or 9 (?) years old, so she's been on Jakku - and Luke has been in hiding - about 10 years. I wonder if he hasn't been aware of everything that's been going on, through the Force. But what if he also knows, through the Force, what will happen - not what needs to happen, but what will happen, like prophecy.

 

Looking at Luke's face at the end, I could pretty clearly see tears in his eyes. To me, his expression is someone who is facing a tragedy he always knew would happen but wished with all his heart that it could be avoided - a dread, like "Oh no ... the day has come at last. There is such pain ahead of us." (To any CSL fans, it's like when Ransom is telling the Green Lady on Perelandra about the fall of his human ancestors: "There may be such a thing that you would cut off both your arms and legs to prevent it happening - and yet it it happens...")

 

I also think that Luke can somehow control R2, even from a great distance. Whether he modified him somehow or what-not, I think R2 woke up because Luke told him to, when his Jedi-sense told him Rey had "awakened."

 

When Finn wakes up, he'll face a re-education about everything he was taught - that was foreshadowed when Rey called Han Solo "the war hero" and Finn said he was "the smuggler." I expect he'll gladly learn better ways, but tearing down one's presuppositions is never easy. I hope they show this - it's a great concept to explore. [edit: added this paragraph that I forgot earlier]

 

Finally, to me it seems obvious that they are setting up Rey-Finn-Poe as a love triangle. I suspect they wanted to do that with Leia-Luke-Han in the original trilogy but then needed a different dynamic between Luke and Leia when they chose to have him be Vader's son. Rey and Poe are both pilots and will have a workplace/colleague relationship that Finn will misinterpret ... pretty much standard movie plotline. I know some folks are shipping Finn & Poe - VIII & IX might well have that dynamic, but I don't think it'll be between the principle 3 characters.

I just want Finn and Rey to be friends.

[Delightful]

I don't see Finn as a romantic partner for Rey, just didn't get that sense of chemistry between them. And isn't Poe much too old?

Here's a terrible idea, kylo ren falls in love with Rey and she uses that to convert him back to the light side. *coughMarySuecough*

[Iarwainiel I]

@ Anamaximder #167 -

I too would like to see Finn & Rey's relationship develop as friends - just saying that's not usually the Hollywood way. And several of my non-sff friends' first question about TFA was "Who's the love interest?" Disney knows what sells tickets. But to quote Captain Jack Sparrow, "One can only hope."

@ Delightful #168 -

Ren & Rey as "kissing cousins"? Agree - terrible idea. But to me Poe is portrayed about the same age as Han in the 1977 film, and Rey about the same age as Leia in that same film, so I think that's a possibility. (But really I still see Oscar Isaacs as Joseph every time I see the film: "Wait - he's a carpenter! What's he doing piloting an X-Wing?")

[Curious Anamaximder]

@ Anamaximder #167 -

I too would like to see Finn & Rey's relationship develop as friends - just saying that's not usually the Hollywood way. And several of my non-sff friends' first question about TFA was "Who's the love interest?" Disney knows what sells tickets. But to quote Captain Jack Sparrow, "One can only hope."

@ Delightful #168 -

Ren & Rey as "kissing cousins"? Agree - terrible idea. But to me Poe is portrayed about the same age as Han in the 1977 film, and Rey about the same age as Leia in that same film, so I think that's a possibility. (But really I still see Oscar Isaacs as Joseph every time I see the film: "Wait - he's a carpenter! What's he doing piloting an X-Wing?")

Disney will probably push a love story on us. Actually, I saw something on the Internet, a theory about Finn and Poe being a gay couple. That would be cool.

[The Honor Spren]

Google "Emo Kylo Ren Twitter" and proceed to die laughing.

Oh My gosh.

sometimes i wish i weren't an only child but mom says when you have siblings weird things can happen

 

storm

[Jondesu]

I just saw an interesting theory on Rey and why she was left on Jakku (since I can't imagine Luke abandoning his daughter, if she is that, in that type of environment after growing up that way himself). It theorized that she was born at the Jedi Academy or around that time, so Ben grew up with her, his cousin, and saved her when the Knights of Ren slaughtered the rest of the Jedi (in the vision, it appears you can see a red, possibly unstable looking light saber stabbing through the chest of the Knight of Ren that's preparing to cut down into Rey, though of course that may not have been the way it happened or the clip may have been misinterpreted by the person theorizing this). He knew she had the potential to pose a huge problem for him, though, but since he couldn't bring himself to kill her, not being fully on the Dark Side yet despite the slaughter of the new Jedi, he instead left her with Unkar Plett on Jakku, possibly wiping others memories of her. Those events, especially if Luke believed his daughter was dead at the hands of his nephew, could have definitely driven him into solitude, and would explain the look on his face at seeing Rey. It doesn't explain everything perfectly, so I'm not completely sold, but I suspect some parts at least may be accurate, such as someone other than Luke leaving her on Jakku.

Edit: Another theory. I believe that Kylo Ren's obsession with Vader and his legacy did not initially come from his own knowledge and draw him to the Dark Side, but was instead the tool that Supreme Leader Snoke used to tempt him. I can't see Luke not teaching Ben the correct story, but like the snake in the Garden of Eden (yes, wouldn't be the first Biblical reference in Star Wars), Snoke comes along saying, "That's not really what happened, was it? Vader was on the right track, and evil Luke kept him from getting what he deserved, but you can do better". I would expect in that case, Snoke also gave him the melted helmet, though it's possible Luke still had it and gave it to Ben or Ben stole it from him, or that it showed up somewhere else like Luke/Anakin's old lightsaber.

jW

Edited January 29, 2016 by Jondesu

[Curious Anamaximder]

https://mobile.twitter.com/dadjokehansolo

[WayneSpren]

I love this movie so much. I don't really understand why someone would steal the Millenium Falcon and just leave it in a junkyard, and why Rey is so powerful, but I liked the acting, dialogue, and callbacks to the OT.

[WayneSpren]

First and foremost, WHERE ARE THE TWI'LEKS? Actually I'm kidding, I felt the older movies used Twi'leks too much as a standard alien race, but the movie really didn't include many familiar races. I don't recall seeing a Rodian, I only recall seeing one Sullustan, again no Twi'leks, and the Mon Calamari I assume was Ackbar (who apparently doesn't age), and that was really it. I didn't recognize anything else. That's a very minor complaint though.

Ackbar did age. He has a fish-beard.