Delightful Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 I hear you. there's a line somewhere, I'm not sure where, between being an independent person and not accepting help for the sake of it. And then there's also offering help in a good way, and being condescending which may have a fine line in perceptions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. It makes sense character growth wise, she knew him much better by then and had worked with people over the course of the film. In the beginning she was on her own and used to entirely looking out for herself. So it makes sense to me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 Ahh, but after the "rescue" scene on Star Killer base, when Finn and Rey are running from the base back to the Han and Ben scene, Finn gives Rey his coat. She wears it for a couple minutes, but gives it back pretty quickly. So she is willing to accept chivalry sometimes That made me happy, because I like being the gentleman and "tough" girls drive me nuts when they fuss at me for holding a door or something. To be fair plenty of guys get annoyed at it too, I held the door open for someone exiting behind us from a restaurant once and a very kind gentleman told me I was a horrible person for doing so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iarwainiel I Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) ... Notice that Carrie is very wooden acting Leia. I know she really hasn't acted for many yrs and it shows. Imo Maybe it's because I'm older (I saw the original in 1977 right after getting out of college), but I interpreted Carrie Fisher's acting in a different way, and my purpose here is not to criticize but to express admiration. First, I give Ms. Fisher huge props for being willing to resume the Leia role after almost 40 years. I suspect that some female actors might have turned the part down, wanting fans to remember them only as their younger selves. She looks more like her mother now than I would have thought she would, which is nice because Debbie Reynolds had a face that was both kind and strong (which may or may not relate to her real-life personality - I don't follow that stuff). General Organa has the weight of the Resistance on her shoulders & she's been through several major personal heartbreaks too. She can't go to NightWatcher like Dalinar and have painful memories removed - she's facing it all the time. Plus, since she's at least a little sensitive to the Force, that will color her perceptions as well. [This paragraph redacted after reading Ms. Fisher's tweet that she finds comments on her appearance to be hurtful. I am older than her and understand all too well. Our true selves are in our hearts, more than on our faces.] For me, as a fan of the original film, no one else could have played the Leia Organa role. I am thankful and glad that Carrie Fisher had the guts and graciousness to bring this great character to life again. Edited January 6, 2016 by old aggie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 On a different note, remember that loyal stormtrooper who was about to kick Finn's rear before the Resistance showed up? He's already become a meme. The KnowYourMeme page is a little shabby right now, but you can find a lot of stuff if you search for TR-8R or TR8-TOR. For example. Seriously, look it up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mestiv Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I agree that Carrie Fisher was the only person that could play Leia. Some people are complaining that she doesn't look like older Leia... what the hell? That's like saying that she doesn't look like herself o.O and personally I didn't find anything wrong with her performance in the movie, for me she was convincing and natural, perfectly fitting the General Organa role. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThirdGen Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I agree that Carrie Fisher was the only person that could play Leia. Some people are complaining that she doesn't look like older Leia... what the hell? That's like saying that she doesn't look like herself o.O and personally I didn't find anything wrong with her performance in the movie, for me she was convincing and natural, perfectly fitting the General Organa role. Nowhere near the disconnect of TOS Scotty vs. Movie Scotty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I have now seen it. Hooray! I don't have a whole lot of thoughts that haven't already been expressed by others, but I can add a couple of things. BB-8 when he gives the thumbs up. I actually got the distinct impression that BB-8 was actually flipping him off. I disagree. It was blatantly in-your-face feminism. "STOP holding my hand!" "Yeah, I'm fine [after a battle, when Finn asks]." Her being shown as the clearly more emotionally in-control. It's not so much that these things were shown, as much as it is the way they were shown. I went into the movie expecting that they were going to do a good job with a female character for the first time ever. Instead, I got thinly veiled cultural references involving sexist guys and empowered women kicking their butts. That's really the only issue I have with the movie, besides R2 waking up. If Hollywood could make a good movie with a female lead character that wouldn't spawn 50,000 articles about it...it spoils the magic of the movie to make Star Wars a political statement. Everyone gets the point that females can be empowered, badchull, in-control, charismatic Chosen Ones. Those scenes that I mentioned above, especially "stop holding my hand," seemed ridiculous and out of place. Personally, I think it's a sign that filmmakers have failed when they have to make you notice things about a female character to like her. I honestly don't think it's possible in this day and age for someone to make a good movie with a female lead character that doesn't spawn a horde of articles about it. This doesn't reflect so much on the movies themselves as the sorts of things the media likes to pick up on and make a big deal out of. There was no avoiding it. And just to add my own perspective on the "stop holding my hand" thing - to me, that came across as more of, "I don't know you why do you keep touching me?!" than a male/female thing. But then, that's my own personal issues coming into play. I get seriously weirded out if people I don't know well touch me without permission. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I have now seen it. Hooray! I don't have a whole lot of thoughts that haven't already been expressed by others, but I can add a couple of things. I actually got the distinct impression that BB-8 was actually flipping him off. I honestly don't think it's possible in this day and age for someone to make a good movie with a female lead character that doesn't spawn a horde of articles about it. This doesn't reflect so much on the movies themselves as the sorts of things the media likes to pick up on and make a big deal out of. There was no avoiding it. And just to add my own perspective on the "stop holding my hand" thing - to me, that came across as more of, "I don't know you why do you keep touching me?!" than a male/female thing. But then, that's my own personal issues coming into play. I get seriously weirded out if people I don't know well touch me without permission. I didn't mind the hand thing much, it's the usual kind of stupid movie stuff mixed with the kind of social awkwardness that you'd expect of an orphan surviving alone in a hostile environment. Although didn't she keep saying it while they were getting shot? That annoyed me a bit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I didn't mind the hand thing much, it's the usual kind of stupid movie stuff mixed with the kind of social awkwardness that you'd expect of an orphan surviving alone in a hostile environment. Although didn't she keep saying it while they were getting shot? That annoyed me a bit. Yeah, though she didn't actually realize that she was getting shot at specifically until afterwards. So far as she knew, this guy was getting shot at and kept dragging her along after him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) I honestly think that at the worst, Rey's characterization in the movies poke at and break some tropes. As far as redemption for Star Wars characters, that's kinda a problem for the series as a whole. They kinda hand redemption out like candy. Let's face it: Darth Vader murdered a bunch of children, stood by while a planet blew up, and did who-knows-what to help forward the cause of the Empire. And yet, somehow he's "redeemed" enough at the end to be a Force Ghost. That does not add up, and unfortunately we might see something similar with Kylo Ren. Though I'm hoping he dies throwing one of his hissy fits at Snoke or something like that. That would be a fittingly pathetic end for his character. Edit: I say like candy, in that it's unearned... not that everyone gets it. I think. Edited December 28, 2015 by The Orlion-Thing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iarwainiel I Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 So I'm intentionally not remembering the name of Kylo Ren's uberlord, so as to feel free to call him humorous things - - current pseudonym favorites are "Snookie" and "Skoal" (the latter because doesn't he look like he's been chewing far too much tobacco for far too many years?). I might have been tempted to call him "Snape," but K-Ren looks too much like that character from the HP films and it might get confusing... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briar King Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 He looks like a super aged Gollum to me. They should have just done make up over cgi. I'm surprised he didn't start calling Ben precious 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Yeah, though she didn't actually realize that she was getting shot at specifically until afterwards. So far as she knew, this guy was getting shot at and kept dragging her along after him. Yeah but in that case I think it's kind of underplayed a bit, you'd be more likely to just bash his skull in than in a somewhat annoyed tone tell them to let go. Especially someone who grew up in that environment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 OK, so some things: 1) Is anyone else as disappointed as I am that Leia doesn't appear to have trained as a Jedi? I really really want to see her go to town with a lightsaber. 2) On the Rey speculation - possible scenario. She is not only Luke's kid, but was also part of the group he was training as Jedi. When Kylo went all Grandad Anakin on the crew, he couldn't bring himself to kill his cousin, so he just took her and dumped her on some crappy planet with a mindwipe. This scenario works best if everyone believes that he killed Luke's daughter, as otherwise they'd have been looking for her. Weakness: How do you trick someone as Force-strong as Luke Skywalker into believing that his kid is dead? He ought to be able to sense her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 OK, so some things: 1) Is anyone else as disappointed as I am that Leia doesn't appear to have trained as a Jedi? I really really want to see her go to town with a lightsaber. 2) On the Rey speculation - possible scenario. She is not only Luke's kid, but was also part of the group he was training as Jedi. When Kylo went all Grandad Anakin on the crew, he couldn't bring himself to kill his cousin, so he just took her and dumped her on some crappy planet with a mindwipe. This scenario works best if everyone believes that he killed Luke's daughter, as otherwise they'd have been looking for her. Weakness: How do you trick someone as Force-strong as Luke Skywalker into believing that his kid is dead? He ought to be able to sense her. Maybe blindness to your children still being alive is just a Skywalker thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iarwainiel I Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 OK, so some things: 1) Is anyone else as disappointed as I am that Leia doesn't appear to have trained as a Jedi? I really really want to see her go to town with a lightsaber. I'm hoping for a "Molly Weasley moment" from her in one of the next 2 movies. One of my favorite parts of HP:TDH... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 I honestly think that at the worst, Rey's characterization in the movies poke at and break some tropes. As far as redemption for Star Wars characters, that's kinda a problem for the series as a whole. They kinda hand redemption out like candy. Let's face it: Darth Vader murdered a bunch of children, stood by while a planet blew up, and did who-knows-what to help forward the cause of the Empire. And yet, somehow he's "redeemed" enough at the end to be a Force Ghost. That does not add up, and unfortunately we might see something similar with Kylo Ren. Though I'm hoping he dies throwing one of his hissy fits at Snoke or something like that. That would be a fittingly pathetic end for his character. Edit: I say like candy, in that it's unearned... not that everyone gets it. I think. The redemption thing is interesting cause...you're right. Anakin killed children, then spent twenty years as the enforcer of a brutally oppressive government. For sheer scale, Vader has Ren beat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 Maybe blindness to your children still being alive is just a Skywalker thing. Though to be fair to Anakin/Vader, he never even met his kids before they were smuggled away. Luke presumably had a strong bond with Rey (assuming the theory is correct). I'm hoping for a "Molly Weasley moment" from her in one of the next 2 movies. One of my favorite parts of HP:TDH... I'm imagining it as a moment where Rey is close to being beaten, and Leia jumps in and saves her, proceeding to kick Kylo's chull all across the set. "Your...*lightsaberbash*...name...*fancyForcejump*...is...*saberswirl*...BEN!" 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Slowswift Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) ...and I'm over here still trying to modify my old 11th Sonic Screwdriver to resemble a lightsaber hilt while y'all are discussing fancy theories. Edited December 29, 2015 by Slowswift 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 He looks like a super aged Gollum to me. They should have just done make up over cgi. I'm surprised he didn't start calling Ben preciousAndy Serkis did play both of them...the Motion Capture Prince, he is. If you listen closely enough, you can hear how some of the vocal patterns are quite similar to Gollum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookla the Absent Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Does anyone know where they filmed the island scene with Luke? I'm guessing somewhere off Ireland or Scotland, because of the beehive stone huts. So beautiful! Skellig Michael. It's in Ireland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 OK, so some things: 1) Is anyone else as disappointed as I am that Leia doesn't appear to have trained as a Jedi? I really really want to see her go to town with a lightsaber. 2) On the Rey speculation - possible scenario. She is not only Luke's kid, but was also part of the group he was training as Jedi. When Kylo went all Grandad Anakin on the crew, he couldn't bring himself to kill his cousin, so he just took her and dumped her on some crappy planet with a mindwipe. This scenario works best if everyone believes that he killed Luke's daughter, as otherwise they'd have been looking for her. Weakness: How do you trick someone as Force-strong as Luke Skywalker into believing that his kid is dead? He ought to be able to sense her. As far as Rey, it could also be that Kylo dropped her off on the planet and told Luke, "I better not see you around these parts if you want her to be alive!" This might be a better explanation for Luke disappearing than "Luke got sad". Kinda invalidates the whole MacGuffin search in Force Awakens, though... of course, Snoke would always want to make sure all the Jedi were dead, but blah blah blah. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 As far as Rey, it could also be that Kylo dropped her off on the planet and told Luke, "I better not see you around these parts if you want her to be alive!" This might be a better explanation for Luke disappearing than "Luke got sad". Kinda invalidates the whole MacGuffin search in Force Awakens, though... of course, Snoke would always want to make sure all the Jedi were dead, but blah blah blah. Not entirely invalidates - if he had her hidden from Luke, he couldn't risk leaving the planet to find her in case he wasn't fast enough. But now that she shows up all fine and not-dead right there in front of his face...well, suddenly there's no reason to hide anymore. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briar King Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yea I'd like Leia in Order especially after 30 yrs. it was about that long in old EU. She focused on her political career and raising 3 kids 1st but in that time she was armed with saber and used the Force in fights. She just wasn't officially in Order yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delightful Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Second time round, the "don't hold my hand" scene was much more annoying. Maybe because we discussed it so much?? Also Kylo Ren - TLR dude said he's a member of the Knights of Ren. Honestly reminds me of the Knighrs who say Ni And his relationships with everyone are soo complicated. I've read a few fan theories and I don't quite subscribe to any yet, but. First I thought he was just pathetic. Now.....he's emotionally way out of his depth but there's a possibility he's not all evil. The subtext in Hans death scene? Insaaane. I don't understand much of it but wow there are layers of understanding going on there. And have i mentioned how much I love Rey? I love Rey. I want to be her friend. She's so cool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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