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A Highstorm model


Satsuoni

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Thank you! I should note, however, that in normal conditions the sea behind the Highstorm should start to calm down after a while. Since the simulation is in what is, essentially, a box, the energy doesn't have anywhere to go, though,

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It still serves as a nice visual and conceptual aid. And while I am not confident that I ever really had the impression that Highstorms are just high-powered versions of our Hurricanes, you've pretty much convinced me that that is not the case. Rereading the descriptions from the book, it does sound more like a detonation wave (or something similar).

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So high storms are actually the dispersing of weekly magical explosions on the other side of the planet with enough energy to outdo Hiroshima by several factors of magnitude? Somehow, that's even more awesome than the continent-sweeping hurricanes I assumed they were. Also, if the storm wall is in fact driven by a magical shockwave, then, unless it only propagates in one direction, shouldn't there be another continent with some serious mountains between Panroshea and the Origin, to the west?

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It's mentioned in the book that the Storms are substantially weaker by the time they reach the West end of the Continent. If the planet is big enough, the shock-wave going the other way might have dissipated long before it reaches around the globe.

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Indeed, even with linear dispersion that is a long way. Also, the two opposing waves would meet about midway. They might cancel each other (at least on the physical side, and though the energy would remain, it should be much more dispersed), since they have opposite momenta, though that would imply that Roshar continent doesn't span over half the circumference of a planet... I am not sure if it does or not.

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*Jaw drop*

 

Friend Satsuoni you are anything but "lazy" that are awesome.

 

After read your post of "Moving Spiritual Wall Theory" i kind got a question. If so much water mass are being moved why Tsunamis aren't formed when the stormwall hit Roshar?  If there are a constant linear push, like in your model, the ocean water would be pushed to the coast too don't ?

 

Anyway take this upvotes Smart Sir =)

Edited by Natans
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*Jaw drop*

 

Friend Satsuoni you are anything but "lazy" that are awesome.

 

After read your post and of "Moving Spiritual Wall Theory" i kind got a question. If so much water mass are being moved why Tsunamis aren't formed when the stormwall hit Roshar?  If there are a contant linear push, like in your model, the ocean water would be pushed to the coast too don't ?

 

Anyway take this upvotes Smart Sir =)

 

You are correct in that (and if you look at the video, you'd note that it does push a lot of water on the shore, enough to drown the lower part). There are two things that may explain it, in part:

  1. We don't really know what the Highstorm looks like on the shore that points towards origin (New Natanan?), and most of Roshar seems to be shielded by the mountains on that side.
  2. The model is approximate, since I am not sure in what form the energy bleeds over from Spiritual. The area of transferred momentum is just one of possibilities for simple modeling. If you are interested, here is one of the earlier videos where it is modeled by a semi-transparent moving wall (and the water surface tension is much lower so it tends to evaporate <_< ).
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I like the (paraphrased) idea of a region of the Spiritual Realm moving along with the highstorms, "opening" gems as it touches them, filling them as it passes through, and "closing" them as it leaves them behind.

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This is awesome. I very much agree and wouldn't be surprised that the Highstorms affect more than just the physical and your Idea of them actually originating from the Spiritual realm is really well prestened, and makes alot of sense. 

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I love it!

 

It seems to fit with the Purelake subsiding and the whirlpool where the Wandersail went.  The whirlpool could feed deeper currents that bring the water back towards the Origin.  I'm not saying the physics works, but poetically it sort of makes sense to me. 

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You are correct in that (and if you look at the video, you'd note that it does push a lot of water on the shore, enough to drown the lower part). There are two things that may explain it, in part:

  1. We don't really know what the Highstorm looks like on the shore that points towards origin (New Natanan?), and most of Roshar seems to be shielded by the mountains on that side.
  2. The model is approximate, since I am not sure in what form the energy bleeds over from Spiritual. The area of transferred momentum is just one of possibilities for simple modeling. If you are interested, here is one of the earlier videos where it is modeled by a semi-transparent moving wall (and the water surface tension is much lower so it tends to evaporate <_< ).

 

 

I see the video and understand the limitation of the experiment, but in true I liked your model so much that a i kinding try to find a explanation why we don't have heard about tsunamis when that should be expected because your idea of a "Moving Spiritual Wall" point to existence of it.

 

So it's possible that Roshar coast topology prevente big waves to enter in the continent or we simplely didn't heard about the tsunamis yet.

 

If later we find of existence of any of this scenarios I will be  be really impressed =)

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This is awesome. I very much agree and wouldn't be surprised that the Highstorms affect more than just the physical and your Idea of them actually originating from the Spiritual realm is really well prestened, and makes alot of sense. 

Thank you! I was mostly drawing this idea from the following passage:

 

Kaladin blinked. All was still. The storm was quiet, and everything was purely dark. I’m dead, he thought immediately. But why could he feel the wet stone roof beneath him? He shook his head, dripping rainwater down his face. There was no lightning, no wind, no rain. The silence was unnatural.

That is just before the sphere recharges, and the face appears. It just seemed to me that that place/time was outside normal physical realm - Kaladin didn't even feel his wounds.

 

 

I see the video and understand the limitation of the experiment, but in true I liked your model so much that a i kinding try to find a explanation why we don't have heard about tsunamis when that should be expected because your idea of a "Moving Spiritual Wall" point to existence of it.

 

So it's possible that Roshar coast topology prevente big waves to enter in the continent or we simplely didn't heard about the tsunamis yet.

 

If later we find of existence of any of this scenarios I will be  be really impressed =)

 

Another thing just occurred to me: if a large part of the water is dragged off to be dispersed over mountains/rest of Roshar, it might not be like a tsunami per se, but like an extended stormwall, and flooded rivers.channels the following day. But I just don't have enough information to speculate with much probability (New Natanan is only mentioned only, and apparently doesn't have many known ways leading to it, and that seems to be the only settlement on that side that is marked on the map)

Edit: apparently there is also a Dawn's shadow.

Edited by Satsuoni
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Wow!  Now I want to kidnap my husband and force him to make a 3D model of the maps for the purposes of providing cross-sections...  That may take a while since his teaching semester starts tonight.  

 

I will talk to him about it. (I haven't convinced him to read the books... I did convince him to go to Writing Excuses at GenCon - He went for Howard though, not Brandon.)

 

For modeling purposes, would 3D be useful? or are we really only looking at the 2D cross-sections and .bmp files?  (I'm confident in my abilities to contribute here.)  What is the maximum size (pixels) of the .bmp file?  

 

I'd love to see what would happen if we tried to model a line across the Shattered Plains, through the Pure-Lake toward Shinovar.  

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Thank you! A 3d model would be too complicated, sorry. For one thing, it would be to slow, since primitive models like this (atomic level) need a large resolution to be useful.

The program takes a bmp file as input, for simplicity. It determines resolution and initial distribution of air/ water. Actually, that basin to the left of landmass is my attempt to make pure lake :) A slice/ silouette with aquifer would be very nice :)

Edit : A maximum size is limited by PC memory, so, about 4 millions of pixels/ cells. Less if I ever get to implementing erosion.

Edited by Satsuoni
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  • 2 weeks later...

I know how annoying "I told you so" can be, so I apologize for this, but it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. Sorry.

 

I just wanted to bring up that I had this idea three years ago. No one agreed with me.

 

Of course, I didn't move heaven and earth like Satsuoni to scientifically prove that I was right.

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I know how annoying "I told you so" can be, so I apologize for this, but it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. Sorry.

 

I just wanted to bring up that I had this idea three years ago. No one agreed with me.

 

Of course, I didn't move heaven and earth like Satsuoni to scientifically prove that I was right.

Ah yes. I think that is one of the threads I was referring to when I said "It came to my attention that many people on the forums seem to consider the Highstorms to be a variation of the Earth storms, perhaps grander in scale, but operating under the same principles."

I've thought of it as a detonation wave from the beginning, so I did agree with your post then. But without a proof, I never bothered posting :) Somebody must have posted something about them recently, when I had more free time to devote to the modeling problem.

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Sheez. First thought after I saw this was, "dang. In WoR, they already start on a boat. If Jasnah and Shallan weren't Surgebinders, they would be screwed". It doesn't matter that they don't sail during highstorms. I can't imagine building a port to weather that. Wow, Satsuoni. Amazing.

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Somebody get Satsu a Cray supercomputer. Now. 

We have Tsubame somewhere around here... If I were still a student, I think I could apply for its usage, actually :)

 

 

Sheez. First thought after I saw this was, "dang. In WoR, they already start on a boat. If Jasnah and Shallan weren't Surgebinders, they would be screwed". It doesn't matter that they don't sail during highstorms. I can't imagine building a port to weather that. Wow, Satsuoni. Amazing.

Yes, I think actual Highstorms are somewhat weaker, though the same fundamentally. Otherwise there wouldn't *be* New Natanan :blink:

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