natc Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Realmatically speaking, logic dictates that for hemalurgy to exist, Ruin must exist, and be invested in Scadrial, which also needs to exist first (artificial planet made by Shard and all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lirins hand Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 OT Hemalurgy question - does the spike have to hit the same bind point in both parties? IE could a spike through the donor's leg hit a bindpoint in the recipient's arm and work? or would that result in failure? Or do mis-matching bindpoints in donor and recipient result in different spiritweb changes, meaning you get different powers not only from different metals, location, and intent, but also how the bindpoints align between the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lirins hand Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 natc - Hemalurgy was Ruin's on Scadrial but did it not exist at all in the cosmere before that? Like how Shallan's lightweaving and Hoid's lightweaving are similar but different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) Systems appear to manifest due to interactions between Shard and world, so this exact form of hemalurgy probably didn't exist. Nothing stops there being other ways to transfer spiritual DNA between subjects that existed pre-Shattering, of course, and I would not be surprised if there was (though it will remove much of hemalurgy's uses since it probably isn't as messy), but then it'd be a weird stroke of luck for spikes to be involved no? If a different shard showed up to help make Scadrial instead of Ruin we might get a slightly different manifestation if the shard was similar to Ruin (Cultivation maybe?) or just create a completely different system outright. The spikes are a means of using the magic, tied to the local focus of "metal", the magic itself is a spiritweb transplanting technique. Much like Hoid's lightweaving (but not Shallan's) uses dust. As for bind/theft points, well Inquisitor spikes appear to mostly if not all be taken from the heart (different parts if the heart though. Lots of theft points on there) but their spikes are all over the place. Edited January 29, 2016 by natc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon314 Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 My guess would be a big fat "yes". Guess we'll see. Of course he would. In WoR he says he would let ROSHAR burn to achieve his goals. What's one life to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 Secret History spoilers: I can't believe nobody is mentioning this yet, but we finally know the reason to Vin's uneasiness at meeting Hoid: Kelsier. After Kelsier died, and got put in the Well by Preservation, a wild Hoid appeared and came to use the Well to bring himself into the Physical Realm. He insulted Kell so bad that Kelsier swore he would kill him, and they actually had a fist fight. Hoid remarked that, since Kell was lacking a body, he could hurt him. However, the pain was all in Kelsier's mind, thinking that he should feel pain when he didn't have to. I theorize that Hoid was a created thing, and part of his "instructions" includes not causing direct harm to people. Since Kell was dead, and the pain was in his head, Hoid was happy to "hurt" him, and that was outside of the rules. Hoid did seem rather antagonistic in this scene. Later on, when Kell was looking for ways to help Vin during the Fadrex invasion, he noticed Vin about to talk to Hoid and he shouted at her, and she got an uneasy feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrae Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) Of course he would. In WoR he says he would let ROSHAR burn to achieve his goals. What's one life to him? I think the key word here is "let". He might not directly kill, but if it benefits him for someone to die he won't save them. Edited March 15, 2016 by Arraenae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 I think, in SA anyway, Hoid is worried that Odium will be set free, either himself by winning or by the heroes when they cannot destroy him and drive him away. Hoid will stop that from happening, and may be seen to doom Roshar in doing so and so is a "villain" in a way in the end of the first half of that Series (the letting the world burn that he alluded to, with Odium continuing to ravage Roahar) but a good figure for the Cosmere as a whole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) Secret History spoilers: I can't believe nobody is mentioning this yet, but we finally know the reason to Vin's uneasiness at meeting Hoid: Kelsier. After Kelsier died, and got put in the Well by Preservation, a wild Hoid appeared and came to use the Well to bring himself into the Physical Realm. He insulted Kell so bad that Kelsier swore he would kill him, and they actually had a fist fight. Hoid remarked that, since Kell was lacking a body, he could hurt him. However, the pain was all in Kelsier's mind, thinking that he should feel pain when he didn't have to. I theorize that Hoid was a created thing, and part of his "instructions" includes not causing direct harm to people. Since Kell was dead, and the pain was in his head, Hoid was happy to "hurt" him, and that was outside of the rules. Hoid did seem rather antagonistic in this scene. Later on, when Kell was looking for ways to help Vin during the Fadrex invasion, he noticed Vin about to talk to Hoid and he shouted at her, and she got an uneasy feeling. Like a robot following Asimov's laws?Edit; sorry for the double post Edited March 16, 2016 by IndigoAjah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Like a robot following Asimov's laws? Edit; sorry for the double post Eh, kind of. I think it's probably more complicated than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowfax Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Yeah, I think Hoid's hatred of Hemalurgy and Rayse is more specifically about the murdering, and less about the actual magic or shards. However, it is interesting to me how Hoid hates Hemalurgy, and Brandon has said Hemalurgy is very dangerous to the Cosmere. Just came across this thread and post, and I don't know any WoBs that may answer this but.... Can a Shard's power be taken from them hemalurgically and transferred to some other entity (human, another Shard, etc)? Like, is a Vessel was killed with a spike, would that spike be imbued with the power of the Shard? Sorry if these are stupid questions, they just popped into my mind while reading this and I was curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 I'm here wondering how you would spike someone that no longer has a flesh and blood body necessarily laying around. Without a connection to the power somehow the power won't actually listen to you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowfax Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 I meant spiking the Vessel carrying the Shard, specifically. Could a Vessel be killed in a way that imbued their powers into a hemalurgic spike? Not necessarily the magics from the planets, but the essense of their powers? There's just so much about hemalurgy we don't know. Does it only work to transfer powers from magic systems establish on planets by Shards? Hoid has powers that pre-date the Shattering, are those susceptible? My poor brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) Again, not dodging the problem that you need a physical, tangible body in the first place to be stabbed by pointy metal bits. Hard when your physical form appears to vanish off to somewhere when you Ascend. Hemalurgy doesn't even transfer magic, it transfers spiritweb pieces. Which plenty of magic has no correlation with whatsoever. Edited March 18, 2016 by natc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowfax Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 I don't think I'm explaining myself very well, so I'm pretty much sitting here looking like an idiot. I'll just duck out of the conversation for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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