Betrail Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 So I have a question regarding Mistborn and Stormlight Archives... My question was Vin able to control the kandra because their spirit web is broken or because of the spike? And if it was because it was that they were broken do you all think an allomancer could then sooth a surgebinder? Who has been repeatedly stated that they are broken. Or am I understanding this wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Well, with emotional Allomancy you can control Hemalurgic creations. This includes koloss, kandra and Steel Inquisitors. Inquisitors may be hard, since they remain human, but the mechanism exist. Nobody has ever succeeded in using it, though (Vin tried once on Marsh, but at the time he was directly controlled by Ruin, so go figure)The mechanism of being broken you mentioned applies both to Allomancers and Surgebinders - Allomancers Snap when they have some traumatic experience (ritual beatings of nobles, for Kelsier death of Mare, for Marsh when obligators killed their mother, for Vin probably being born, for mistfallen... well, they got really sick and those who were weak even died) and Surgebinders also have to be broken somehow to establish the Nahel Bond.Hemalurgy is so destructive to the soul and mind of individual spiked that it's possible for them to be controlled by powerful Soothing or Rioting. Edited November 30, 2015 by Oversleep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrail Posted November 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Bah.. okay. Was listening to the books and couldn't find if it was the spike or just being broken... forgot about the whole snapping was Roshar's breaking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Well, with emotional Allomancy you can control Hemalurgic creations. This includes koloss, kandra and Steel Inquisitors. Inquisitors may be hard, since they remain human, but the mechanism exist. Nobody has ever succeeded in using it, though (Vin tried once on Marsh, but at the time he was directly controlled by Ruin, so go figure) The mechanism of being broken you mentioned applies both to Allomancers and Surgebinders - Allomancers Snap when they have some traumatic experience (ritual beatings of nobles, for Kelsier death of Mare, for Marsh when obligators killed their mother, for Vin probably being born, for mistfallen... well, they got really sick and those who were weak even died) and Surgebinders also have to be broken somehow to establish the Nahel Bond. Hemalurgy is so destructive to the soul and mind of individual spiked that it's possible for them to be controlled by powerful Soothing or Rioting. It's also possible that it is just an intentionally programmed defect in those specific hemalurgic creations, and other future types might not be susceptible to direct mind control, though are still especially vulnerable to emotional allomancy.After all kandra appear to be immune to emotional disruption (fault of not entirely human souls, perhaps?) but the mind control works anyway. Edited December 1, 2015 by natc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I thought that control thing worked because a Spike takes up more space than it has Investiture to fill. So there is a small gap in the Spiritweb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 The thing about both snapping and the Nahel bond is that there are cracks in the soul, and something uses those cracks to make modifications or attach something to the soul. (And thereby filling in the cracks, I believe, but I don't have a source on that) Hemalurgy is the opposite, you forcefully staple something onto the soul, which leaves cracks as a side effect. The "total control through emotional allomancy" and Ruin's influence over Hemalurgic constructs use the cracks in a soul as an entry point. IMO it won't work on a surgebinder because their spren already fills up those cracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 The thing about both snapping and the Nahel bond is that there are cracks in the soul, and something uses those cracks to make modifications or attach something to the soul. (And thereby filling in the cracks, I believe, but I don't have a source on that) Hemalurgy is the opposite, you forcefully staple something onto the soul, which leaves cracks as a side effect. The "total control through emotional allomancy" and Ruin's influence over Hemalurgic constructs use the cracks in a soul as an entry point. IMO it won't work on a surgebinder because their spren already fills up those cracks. This is my take on the subject too, perhaps it could be used to control a KR who has lost/killed their spren though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 The Simply crack in the Soul isn't enough for mind control. Ruin has already a "backdoor" to the Scadrial-Human and this is why he may "speak" to the madman. The Hemalurgy add new backdoor to the Spiked-Guy more "powerfull" than the standard backdoor and give Ruin the chance of controlling him. Of course more spike more control. Without the right "powerful backdoor" nobody will be capable of "mind control". We had an example of this right in SA. The Listener had no problem of bein controlled (and they are the most incomplete being saw in the Cosmere I think). Unless they bond with VoidSpren that take with them a "powerfull backdoor" for Odium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 You raise a good point on voidspren. HoA spoilers Ruin-Marsh's personality overwriting case has hints of similarity to Eshonai's stormform. They change, and they notice it, and it's as if they have a second self (their original selves) trapped in there that they push away. Though plain screaming is a bit different from coherent sentences and disgust. Interesting train of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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