AntiqueArabesque Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 Oathbringer Spoilers Spoiler Do we know if Renarin really counts as a Radiant, though? Aren't his abilities considered Voidbinding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordNimiForPresident Posted June 7, 2018 Report Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) Spoiler Szeth+Nightblood+Unlimited stormlight.. OB spoils Edited June 7, 2018 by SwordNimiForPresident Spoilers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5ith Ideal Posted June 12, 2018 Report Share Posted June 12, 2018 I would think it depends a bit on whether the Mistborn has full knowledge of the metals... for example, if the Mistborn was one from Era 1, they would only have knowledge of the first ten metals. If they were from Era 2, they would be able to do much more... for example, bendalloy alone would be very useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) I don't think it's the Windrunner that would be the most effective KR to send up against a full Mistborn, if both parties were educated as to the other's abilities, weaknesses, and prerequisites for use. The Mistborn's main strength would be in using a range attack (shooting metal) from a distance to wear down the Radiant. Picture a shredding shrapnel cloud. If you allowed for "infinite investiture" I think there is no way a Radiant of the Fourth Ideal (with Plate) could ever lose, since they could withstand the shrapnel cloud indefinitely, and just rush the Allomancer, going for the Shardblade Kill Move. Infinite metals to burn would not mean infinite placement of metal anchors, so if the Mistborn had to bring a bag of coins to this fight in order to fly around a large, open field or a stone arena, they would eventually run out and leave the Mistborn landbound. But the real KR to send in with Infinite Investiture would not be a Windrunner, not even one like Kaladin, but an Elsecaller with expert Soulcasting abilities, like Jasnah. We know that aluminum is only found on Roshar via Soulcasting, and that Jasnah can Soulcast things from a distance without physically touching them: she zaps two of the robbers in Kharbranth into smoke with "Stormlight that shot from her hands like bolts of lightning". So I'm guessing she could Soulcast the Mistborn's coins to aluminum right from the get-go, and now the Mistborn can neither fly nor shoot with a ranged attack. Uh-oh. And if the Mistborn had cleverly specified a combat arena filled with large steel columns, anticipating a skyborne battle against a Windrunner, ZAP, now they're aluminum columns. Next step would be Soulcasting the metal flakes in the Mistborn's backup vials into aluminum. There might be infinite vials on hand, but she'd only have to Soulcast the metal in the vial the Mistborn was about to ingest. While that wouldn't trick the Mistborn into burning aluminum (it's not like it could be confused for pewter or steel), it would prevent recharging. And, if you've read Oathbringer, Spoiler we get to see what Jasnah can do with Soulcasting with nigh infinite Stormlight - she can create metal plates and walls out of the thin air. ("Metal" is actually one of the Ten Essences!) So using Zane as the exemplary Mistborn, Jasnah would be able to Soulcast Zane's coin bag into aluminum pieces, then Soulcast six aluminum walls like a cube around him. Aluminum is not a very strong metal, so Zane would be able to pewter flare and punch his way out. But in the time it took for him to do so, Jasnah could Elsecall right up to him (no need to physically travel the closing distance), and stab him with her Shardblade through the hole as soon as he did. And if he chose to just stay inside the aluminum cube, he'd suffocate. Edited June 18, 2018 by robardin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 Posted June 25, 2018 Report Share Posted June 25, 2018 What weapon does a Mistborn have that can penetrate living Shardplate? Their normal arsenal, glass knives and metal coins, wouldn't even scratch regular Shardplate much less the living variety. And all the Atium in the world won't help if nothing you are able to do can harm your opponent. They can't even push/pull the opponent without a significant anchor. Not only is a person in Shardplate going to be much heavier than the Mistborn, they're invested as well. I'm not sure it's even possible to affect them with allomancy period; if so, they won't be moving them far even with duraluminum. For the Radient, which order is fighting? The ones that do their damage at close quarters are probably not catching a Mistborn with all metals unless they are in an enclosed space. Even that is debatable when factoring in Atium. But the Surgebinders who can work at a distance or can alter landscapes have a better chance of the 'checkmate' like we see in Reckoners. Division to set the landscape aflame, Cohesion to make any substance surrounding them act like clay or quicksand, Transformation if you could do it like Jasnah. Illumination can counter emotional allomancy. With Adhesion you could pull a Szeth and spray Stormlight at an area and make that area sticky temporarily. The Mistborn needs to get in close to do anything that could actually hurt a Surgebinder with live Plate (stab in the vision slit ala Kaladin). But one slip up, and the Mistborn gets crushed. I see a draw, slight advantage to the Radient. Now if the Radient fights a Fullborn the Radient dies without contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainKing Posted June 25, 2018 Report Share Posted June 25, 2018 I just want to mention that because the Radiant head is in a helmet of pure investiture or heavy invested material, emotionally allomancy won't affect them. Also where assuming the allomancer is a mistborn, but the average surgebinder can't use all the surges so we should assume that the allomancer is a misting, and really the only mistings that might be able to put up a fight would be pewter, electrum, or cadmium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatikis Posted June 26, 2018 Report Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, MountainKing said: Also where assuming the allomancer is a mistborn, but the average surgebinder can't use all the surges so we should assume that the allomancer is a misting. Surgebinders by their nature have access to two surges. That is why they have a resonance. So at the very least the opposing Scadrian should be a twinborn. The fight will come down to which radiant vs which Twinborn. I think for any combination of Twinborn powers there is a Radiant that could counter. I also think that for any Radiant there is a twinborn combination that could counter them. Edited June 26, 2018 by Fatikis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainKing Posted June 26, 2018 Report Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Fatikis said: Surgebinders by their nature have access to two surges. That is why they have a resonance. So at the very least the opposing Scadrian should be a twinborn. The fight will come down to which radiant vs which Twinborn. I think for any combination of Twinborn powers there is a Radiant that could counter. I also think that for any Radiant there is a twinborn combination that could counter them. But then we would be mixing magic systems, and that's not fair, of course it can be argued that Radiants are using more than one magic systems, the natural symbiosis that happens in Roshar and Honor's investiture increasing the bond's strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatikis Posted June 26, 2018 Report Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, MountainKing said: But then we would be mixing magic systems, and that's not fair, of course it can be argued that Radiants are using more than one magic systems, Radiants are mixing magic systems.That is what is producing the resonance. Radiants aren't only of Honor. Given the system uses Cultivation spren and The Nightwatcher at the very least Cultivation's power is mixing. Quote the natural symbiosis that happens in Roshar and Honor's investiture increasing the bond's strength. By your logic full Allomancers are a natural production of Scadrial and therefor can be used. Using Lerasium is increasing your connection to Preservation. Bonding a spren is essentially increasing your connection to the shards of Roshar. Edited June 26, 2018 by Fatikis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainKing Posted June 26, 2018 Report Share Posted June 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, Fatikis said: Radiants are mixing magic systems.That is what is producing the resonance. Radiants aren't only of Honor. Given the system uses Cultivation spren and The Nightmother at the very least Cultivation's power is mixing. By your logic full Allomancers are a natural production of Scadrial and therefor can be used. The resonance is caused by having multiple powers, if a user has A-tin then gets spiked to have A-Pewter they will have a resonance, its just that because Mistborn have so many powers their resonances cancel each other out. Yes, by my logic, Mistborns are an available choice, but the probability that the allomancer your fighting is a mistborn and not a misting is low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatikis Posted June 26, 2018 Report Share Posted June 26, 2018 Just now, MountainKing said: The resonance is caused by having multiple powers, if a user has A-tin then gets spiked to have A-Pewter they will have a resonance, its just that because Mistborn have so many powers their resonances cancel each other out. Yes, by my logic, Mistborns are an available choice, but the probability that the allomancer your fighting is a mistborn and not a misting is low. The probabilities of the two can't really be held without including the non-invested members of the planet. The probability of a Rosharian being a Radiant is incredibly low. The probability of being a misting is low, but it is much higher than being a Radiant. So bringing in probabilities doesn't really work out. A fair comparison is Twinborn and Radiant as they both have two abilities and are likely around near as common. They both have two abilities. Both of which come from one or two shards. Both have access to a resonance. This not only is a fair comparison it is also the most likely competing group. Otherwise to be fair you need to include multiple mistings against the single Radiant to balance out the low number of Radiants compared to Metalborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 7:37 AM, Bigmikey357 said: What weapon does a Mistborn have that can penetrate living Shardplate? Their normal arsenal, glass knives and metal coins, wouldn't even scratch regular Shardplate much less the living variety. Potentially chrome. That really is the wild card. We have no idea what happens if you leech living shard plate. If the plate locks up, the eye slit becomes really vulnerable. Alternatively we may find out from which height a Mistborn could drop the Radiant after lifting him on steel & duraluminium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle373 Posted October 10, 2018 Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 even if the radiant had shardplate the shardplate has the eyeslit, which the mistborn could duralumin+steel push a coin into and has been mentioned earlier crushing the the radiants head would kill it, and yeah it would be really really hard to make that shot, I think a mistborn with atium would be able to keep dodging and shooting till they hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted October 10, 2018 Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 8:01 PM, Fatikis said: Surgebinders by their nature have access to two surges. That is why they have a resonance. So at the very least the opposing Scadrian should be a twinborn. The fight will come down to which radiant vs which Twinborn. I think for any combination of Twinborn powers there is a Radiant that could counter. I also think that for any Radiant there is a twinborn combination that could counter them. I think, for reasonable debate, you have to limit it to just Allomancy, as a steel compounder is basically unbeatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainKing Posted October 10, 2018 Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 I doing to bring up an point that I raised earlier, it should be misting vs. radiant, not mistborn vs radiant, because mistborn, can'y usually exist. Specifically an Iron MIsting (one of the easiest to discover and obtain the right kind of metal) and Windrunner(Largest Order) And Truthwatchers/Lightweavers might be able to stop Steel Twinborns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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