Voidus Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 I had actually with the point of "assassination=Mistborn win and Duel= Surgebinding win". For example the Surgebinder within a Plate are quite immune to all ambiental condition (and also without the Plate they had no need of breathing). The Enhanched Ultimate-Punch to the Face had to destroy the Plate and overcome all the Stormlight's Healing and the Nicrosil-Surge may be simply stopped by the Surgebinder at will. The Cromium to be honest is a Wild-Card and honestly I don't know if would simply suck all the Stomlight or be partialy-halted by the Plate. Anyway as we said a lot of post ago. We had actually see what a complete RK would become at the end. Before of this, we can't make a rightfull judge. Assuming the KR even had Plate (Which none at the moment do) Plates actually not terribly hard to break, Sharbearers do it all the time with what we can assume is equivalent to regular pewter strength, Duralumin-enhanced Pewter would be able to smash it and a skull pretty easily. They might be able to stop the Surge but that's not likely to be helpful since they'd already be in space by the time they could do much about it, Duralumin provides quite simply insane boosts to peoples abilities, imagine a KR accidentally lashing themselves upwards with a 1000x multiple lashing, if they didn't simply get completely torn apart by the force or burn up from the friction they'd find themselves in space very, very quickly. And if it was any direction other than straight up they'd die even quicker by accidentally smashing themselves into a building/rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulcastJam Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 The question though is whether you actually can smash plate fueled by infinite stormlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathoth Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Seriously, this "Infinite investiture" thing is getting ridiculous. For the sake of the argument lets say that both of them have a very large, but finite store of investiture. As in, neither of them are going to run out (Unless the Mistborn is being silly and duralumin bursts everything they do), but it is not infinite. Anyway on the topic of what the Mistborn could do against a shardplate, well, grab on, duralumin powered leech, stormlight gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTea Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I love this thread especially because it makes me wonder a few things i had never thought of before and I am curious if anyone else knows for instance if the mistborn has unlimited atium do they also have unlimited lerasium and if they do what would that even mean, would it make an incredibly powerful allomancer or is the quantity of lerasium consumed compltely irrelvant and it one only needs a little bit to get the full effects? As for the KR would it be possible for the KR to have an honorblade as well giving him access to even more surges and if so is it possible to have multiple honorblades at once and have access to all ten surges. Also, I am not sure if this has been stated yet but do the combatants know each others abilities because if the KR knows about the possibility of a duraluminum powered leech couldn't the KR just bring infused spheres with him to fill back up after it gets taken because I believe that even with infinite investiture duraluminum would still only allow for a one time use without consuming more metal to refill giving the KR time to attack when the KR knows that the mistborn is out of some metals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 A duralumin pewter enhanced backward headbutt can apparently turn someone's head into a shower of brains, blood and spinal fluid on the carpet. Killing a KR by brute force should definitely be possible, they aren't Hoid. Only Hoid levels of BS casually survives that kind of thing. Enhancement metal kills are fun though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I love this thread especially because it makes me wonder a few things i had never thought of before and I am curious if anyone else knows for instance if the mistborn has unlimited atium do they also have unlimited lerasium and if they do what would that even mean, would it make an incredibly powerful allomancer or is the quantity of lerasium consumed compltely irrelvant and it one only needs a little bit to get the full effects? As for the KR would it be possible for the KR to have an honorblade as well giving him access to even more surges and if so is it possible to have multiple honorblades at once and have access to all ten surges. Also, I am not sure if this has been stated yet but do the combatants know each others abilities because if the KR knows about the possibility of a duraluminum powered leech couldn't the KR just bring infused spheres with him to fill back up after it gets taken because I believe that even with infinite investiture duraluminum would still only allow for a one time use without consuming more metal to refill giving the KR time to attack when the KR knows that the mistborn is out of some metals. Well Duralumin isn't quite instantaneous, it's quick but it seems to last a couple of seconds so unless it magically forces the burn to continue you should be able to just use it in bursts. And if the KR needs to breath in more Stormlight he's in a similar situation to the Mistborn being out of metals, except worse because the Mistborn would only be out of some metals not all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I think Chromium is the way to go here, leech the cra... crem out of the Shardplate and the KR is immobilized by his own armor. Then the Mistborn can just Duralumin-steelpush something into the plate and the whole thing would burst into a thousand pieces, and maybe leave a coin-shaped hole in the Radiant. That is, if the Mistborn can get the drop on the Radiant. If the Radiant knows an enemy is nearby the Mistborn has to dodge the shardblade. Which would still be possible with atium and pewter, actually, so Mistborn FTW. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I think Chromium is the way to go here, leech the cra... crem out of the Shardplate and the KR is immobilized by his own armor. Then the Mistborn can just Duralumin-steelpush something into the plate and the whole thing would burst into a thousand pieces, and maybe leave a coin-shaped hole in the Radiant. That is, if the Mistborn can get the drop on the Radiant. If the Radiant knows an enemy is nearby the Mistborn has to dodge the shardblade. Which would still be possible with atium and pewter, actually, so Mistborn FTW. And Bendalloy, can't forget the Bendalloy. Alternatively the Mistborn can just run away and burn Cadmium for a year or two and just outlive the Radiant. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 And Bendalloy, can't forget the Bendalloy. Alternatively the Mistborn can just run away and burn Cadmium for a year or two and just outlive the Radiant. Do we know if stormlight does anything to ageing? Quite a few cosmere magic systems do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Do we know if stormlight does anything to ageing? Quite a few cosmere magic systems do. Probably, if you hold enough of it. But since it leaks out, you probably can't keep it in long enough to have any noticeable effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Do we know if stormlight does anything to ageing? Quite a few cosmere magic systems do. A few but I doubt it works with Stormlight, the Heralds are the only immortals so at most it could slow it down a bit and none of the KRs we've seen, present or past have shown anything like that. Maybe if they held enough Stormlight 24/7 it would help but they tend to do it in short bursts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Fifth heightening stops aging, no? Though I vaguely recall someone saying that breaths do actually weaken with time . . . Closest thing to stormlight seems to be bloodmaking though, which decidedly does not stop aging at all (though health concerns brought on by old age, on the other hand, are probably healable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unite Them Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I love this thread especially because it makes me wonder a few things i had never thought of before and I am curious if anyone else knows for instance if the mistborn has unlimited atium do they also have unlimited lerasium and if they do what would that even mean, would it make an incredibly powerful allomancer or is the quantity of lerasium consumed compltely irrelvant and it one only needs a little bit to get the full effects? As for the KR would it be possible for the KR to have an honorblade as well giving him access to even more surges and if so is it possible to have multiple honorblades at once and have access to all ten surges. Also, I am not sure if this has been stated yet but do the combatants know each others abilities because if the KR knows about the possibility of a duraluminum powered leech couldn't the KR just bring infused spheres with him to fill back up after it gets taken because I believe that even with infinite investiture duraluminum would still only allow for a one time use without consuming more metal to refill giving the KR time to attack when the KR knows that the mistborn is out of some metals. It's been very interesting to me too! Under the original conditions I stated that both the Windrunner and the Mistborn have infinite supply of stormlight/metal. What I meant by that is that for whatever reason they do not need to resupply. As in the Windrunner never needs to draw in more stormlight and the Mistborn never needs to ingest more metal. I think now this would mean the Mistborn would win the majority of the time. The Mistborn just has way too much raw power at their disposal. Consider this: The Mistborn has infinite atium, pewter, and duralamin. This means they could flair all three metals without stopping. Meaning they have ridiculous amounts of physical strength, hardiness, and of course future-sight. Even with healing, lashings, and shardblades I cannot see a way that the Windrunner can possibly win. My bias is for the Windrunner to win but I don't see how that could be possible. Let's change the rules a little bit. Let's say that both the Windrunner and the Mistborn have full awareness of how the other person's power works. This means that the Mistborn knows the Windrunner can basically fly and heal from wounds quickly. The Windrunner also knows that the Mistborn can pack a serious punch and see the future. Under these conditions does anything change? If I had to guess I would say that a Mistborn's powers would have no effect on shardplate or shardblade. Also I don't think Atium would be able to see the movement/formations/re-formations of shardblades. The Atium would be able to see the changes in the Windrunner's posture however. So even though it is unlikely they could see the weapon in the future itself they could see the Windrunner's telegraphed body movements. I still think the Mistborn would probably win, however its also possible that we do not yet know the full power of a Windrunner. Perhaps a full Windrunner is close to the power of Jezrien himself. Could a full-Mistborn beat Jezrien? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Fifth heightening stops aging, no? Though I vaguely recall someone saying that breaths do actually weaken with time . . . Closest thing to stormlight seems to be bloodmaking though, which decidedly does not stop aging at all (though health concerns brought on by old age, on the other hand, are probably healable). Well it could do both but again I find that unlikely, the Radiants were always mentioned as strong and powerful but not immortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosaab Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 So..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feldi Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) On 11.11.2015 at 11:50 PM, soulcastJam said: The question though is whether you actually can smash plate fueled by infinite stormlight. Stormlight, in the books, is the power that make the Plate give you super strength, and when the Plate breaks it becomes super heavy because you're not super powerful, but the plate is always really heavy and durable Edited January 11, 2018 by feldi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Hastings Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 On 11/7/2015 at 0:00 AM, Unite Them said: Which magic system is more powerful in terms of combat. Specifically, all things being equal who would win in a fight: A mistborn or a windrunner? If we had Zane or Vin fighting against Kaladin who would win? This was inspired by the Lord Ruler vs Vasher question. For the sake of argument let's assume that both contestants are absolute masters of their craft and have all of their necessary fuel available in limitless quantities. The Windrunner has his/her shardblade and infinite stormlight. The Mistborn has an endless supply of all available metals. While my heart wants to say the Windrunner would win I understand that things like atium would definitely give Kaladin a run for his money. What do you guys think? Surgebinding is more powerful in terms of combat because it allows healing and shardblades which cannot be blocked by allomancy. But in terms of practical use allowmany is much more practical. For the second question it depends which ideal the windrunner was on, a first or second ideal the mistborn would win. Anything besides that the windrunner has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obvcop Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 Would the fact that atium isn't produces any more by harmony not hinder allomancers? They seem far less op without atium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHeadHancho Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 I think that the Reverse Lasing black hole idea is fascinating. I could see it being used to trap (at least) a mistborn burning atium if it is created behind them or something. However, I am not sure of the extent of the power of using Atium+Bendalloy+Duralumin (meaning: I don't know if they would be able to sense the lashing behind them or see the Windrunner's power actually move behind them). As for escaping, the Windrunner can lash themselves backwards as much as they need to, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerubard Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) On 1/12/2018 at 10:39 AM, Obvcop said: Would the fact that atium isn't produces any more by harmony not hinder allomancers? They seem far less op without atium They still have Electrum. It isn’t even close to as good, but at bare minimum it would storm with Renarin if he had the stones to actually fight. Edited January 15, 2018 by Crazy1993 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 19 hours ago, Crazy1993 said: They still have Electrum. It isn’t even close to as good, but at bare minimum it would storm with Renarin if he had the stones to actually fight. Oathbringer spoilers: Spoiler Renarin can fight - if pressed - but his future sight doesn't act like atium does. It's much less immediate, and only provides still images of one possible future, rather than atium's combat-ready clairvoyance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 On 1/15/2018 at 0:09 PM, TheHeadHancho said: I think that the Reverse Lasing black hole idea is fascinating. I could see it being used to trap (at least) a mistborn burning atium if it is created behind them or something. Gotta keep a hold of the object you are using a reverse lashing on (as Szeth demonstrates in WoK Prologue), so I'm not sure you could do it behind them. That said, I'm not 100% sure if Atium lets one fight with their eyes closed(ie: can react to stuff behind them), so you may still be onto something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelouch Vi Britannia Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Replying to an old point; you technically could allomantically affect a shardblade, because they're god metals. However, they're very heavily invested, so duralumin would likely be required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerubard Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) On 1/16/2018 at 10:43 AM, Landis963 said: Oathbringer spoilers: Hide contents Renarin can fight - if pressed - but his future sight doesn't act like atium does. It's much less immediate, and only provides still images of one possible future, rather than atium's combat-ready clairvoyance. I’m aware he can fight if pushed, and electrum and atium also both provide singular visions. I would think that, both being forms of foresight, they’d still interfere with each other enough to screw with Renarin; who I think can’t be argued to be better off in a fight compared to a mistborn who has any idea what they’re doing. Edited January 17, 2018 by Crazy1993 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 12 hours ago, Crazy1993 said: I’m aware he can fight if pushed, and electrum and atium also both provide singular visions. I would think that, both being forms of foresight, they’d still interfere with each other enough to screw with Renarin; who I think can’t be argued to be better off in a fight compared to a mistborn who has any idea what they’re doing. Oathbringer spoilers: Spoiler Renarin's future sight simply isn't built for combat, is my point. Electrum doesn't need to screw with it when it's already a liability in the heat of battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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