CthulhuSpren

Waterstones signing - Nottingham

27 posts in this topic

The actual signing was weeks ago, and I was wondering why no one had created this forum (although, 2 other authors were there, so maybe that influenced that decision.

 

Anyway, the only reason I made this is because of the questions I had asked him then; if you have any more material regarding this signing, I think someone would appreciate it being added, but I digress.

 

I asked 2 questions which got answers

 

1) Q: Could wax, vin, or TLR burn nightblood?

     A: (paraphrased) Firstly, you're assuming Nightblood is not allomantically inert (he didnt say if it was or not),             but if it was, it would be like trying to burn someone else's metalmind.

 

2) Q: Could you tell me anything about the other (Dysian) Aimians?

     A: (paraphrased) You'll be surprised when you see them, they're barely humanoid.

 

hope you find this useful, and if you dont think these are credible, you're welcome to ask him these questions next time you see him, and if you get a different answer, I will accept being wrong.

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Oooh, this bit about the Dysian Aimians is sweet! Combined with the color of their blood (purple, I believe?), it sounds like they are, at least in physical appearance, crustacean-like. Or at least animal-like.

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Well, there goes my theory on Dysian Aimians being able to change their minds like Siah Aimians change their bodies.

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Well, there goes my theory on Dysian Aimians being able to change their minds like Siah Aimians change their bodies.

So you're saying that you changed your mind about that? *badum-tss*

On a more serious note, aren't Dysian Aimians the ones who could rearrange their body parts? Hoid seems to think so.

I wonder if you could do that to a man. Pull him apart, emotion by emotion, bit by bit, bloody chunk by bloody chunk. Then combine them back together into something else, like a Dysian Aimian.

I wonder how similar Dysian Aimians are to kandra. Imagine a kandra who only ever uses his own bones (like the First Generation) and who prefers unconventional body arrangements. Edited by skaa
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On a more serious note, aren't Dysian Amians the ones who could rearrange their body parts? Hoid seems to think so.

 

Axies is a Siah Aimian, so I don't think so.

 

Hoid's quote there is talking about rearranging a man into a Dysian Aimian by pulling him apart and putting him back together, not that the man is rearranging the man into something that is not a Dysian Aimian through the method Aimians use.

 

Er. Not sure if I explained that properly. But in my interpretation, you could replace "Dysian Aimian" in Hoid's sentence there with anything in my mind - Dysian Aimian was just an example he used.

 

It's possible both types of Aimians are capable of shifting their body, though.

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I always took that line to mean the Dysian Aimians could shift their bodies around.

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I thought Hoid was talking about Adonalsium...? Was it confirmed somewhere that he wasn't?

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I always took that line to mean the Dysian Aimians could shift their bodies around.

That's what I thought as well.

@Moogle: My understanding is that both Dysian and Siah Aimians can modify their bodies, but to a different extent.

Siah like Axies can control their bodies in subtle ways, e.g. manipulate their senses, change skin pigmentation, etc. They probably have some healing powers as well, given that they're practically immortal.

As for Dysian Aimians, they're probably what Kylrm is more familiar with, the type of Aimian who can tear off parts of their bodies and reattach them however they want.

Another possibility: Siahs are to Dysians as Kandra are to Mistwraiths in that they are the sentient versions of the other, making them aware of their appearance and therefore more likely to sustain a more human-like form.

Edit: Fixed spelling of Aimian.

Edited by skaa
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This is an awesome little tidbit, thanks!

 

It's my understanding that Axies was a Siah Aimian. Hoid's "Giblitish" speech implies that Dysian Aimians are the ones that can rearrange themselves "bloody chunk by bloody chunk." 

 

I'm not sure which ones have which blood, though. Axies is described as being very pale, to the point that his skin seems bluish to Rysn. Since we know one sort of Aimians have orange blood and the others have violet, I thought Axies looked like he would have violet blood.

 

Additionally, we see chasm fiends bleed violet and Listeners bleed orange. Could it be that most native Rosharan animal life bleeds violet blood, while Braizians bleed orange? 

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It seems like an awfully large assumptions to assume Hoid was talking about the Aimians there... It sounds way past the realm of headcanon to me.

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According to this, he was just testing a (wrong) theory he had about Dalinar. He was probably checking for any sign of familiarity regarding Adonalsium and the Shards. But whatever it is he was talking about, he was still using Dysian Amians in his simile, so it seems clear to me that recombining body parts is something Dysian Aimians are known to do. Otherwise, the simile would make no sense.

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I was about to weigh in with the same thing skaa said, but upon rereading that section I am inclined to change my mind and see it the way Argent represented. Here is the quote again:

“I wonder if you could do that to a man . Pull him apart, emotion by emotion, bit by bit, bloody chunk by bloody chunk. Then combine them back together into something else, like a Dysian Aimian.

In the past I've read that to mean "reassemble body parts like a Dysian Aimian does," but in light of the "barely humanoid" quote from CthuluSpren it makes more sense to say "reassemble body parts into something as different as, say, a Dysian Aimian."

From threads I've seen, a good portion of Sharders share my former interpretation, so if reading that line as a simile is a mistake then it is a pretty common one, and a whole bunch of us are "way past the realm of headcanon" together.

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@ccstat: Moogle already proposed the "Dysian Aimian is just an example of something different than a man" interpretation above, but I don't buy it. I think the simile interpretation makes more sense, because if Brandon wanted to use an example of something different than a man while writing that dialogue, he had plenty of other choices of creatures that the reader was already aware of at that point. Heck, he could have used non-living things as an example. Under that interpretation, using Dysian Aimians doesn't make sense from a literary point of view because the reader hasn't seen them yet and therefore cannot appreciate how unlike humans they are.

On the other hand, using them as a simile for rearranging body parts *would* make sense if they could, in fact, rearrange their body parts. That would be a neat revelation for the reader. And if they prefer having unorthodox body arrangements, then that *would* fit the "barely humanoid" description.

Now watch me get proven wrong when Oathbringer comes out. :P

Edit: I accidentally downvoted Corax while trying to edit my previous post (stupid phone screen...). Please upvote him for me. Thanks!

Edited by skaa
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Hmm, it looks like I had somehow completely forgotten the last bit of that quote - which is why I was so confused why everyone was going on about the Dysians. I apologize for that.

 

In this light, yeah, it's a reasonable theory. I don't know where I stand on it, but it's reasonable.

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@ccstat: Moogle already proposed the "Dysian Aimian is just an example of something different than a man" interpretation above, but I don't buy it. I think the simile interpretation makes more sense, because if Brandon wanted to use an example of something different than a man while writing that dialogue, he had plenty of other choices of creatures that the reader was already aware of at that point. Heck, he could have used non-living things as an example. Under that interpretation, using Dysian Aimians doesn't make sense from a literary point of view because the reader hasn't seen them yet and therefore cannot appreciate how unlike humans they are.

[...]

Edit: I accidentally downvoted Corax while trying to edit my previous post (stupid phone screen...). Please upvote him for me. Thanks!

Fixed.

Until reading Moogle's post it hadn't occurred to me that there was a valid non-simile way to interpret the line, though that discussion has clearly happened before. (The first link contains supporting quotes from the Rysn interlude in WoR, where Aimians are reputed to have limb-rearranging powers). To be honest I had trouble parsing Moogle's post, so I was trying to clarify the two readings, especially since Argent seemed so sure of his interpretation.

I am not completely convinced yet, but I am starting to lean away from the simile version at the moment.

As for the motivation of using the line, I disagree. If Hoid is just giving an example of something not human, the mention of a Dysian Aimian (rather than, say, an axehound) makes sense for two reasons. First, I think it is intended as a worldbuilding hook, a reminder that there is something else weird out there that the reader hasn't met yet. Second, Hoid's previous line about Balderdash: "Isn't it odd that gibberish words are often the sounds of other words, cut up and dismemebered, then stitched into something like them--yet wholly unlike them at the same time?" comments on the superficial resemblance but fundamental difference of two things. If the Dysians have a vaguely humanoid structure while being obviously different from people, they fit that analogy better than a whitespine, rockbud, or parshman would.

Since prior to this thread I had assumed the simile interpretation was correct, I definitely see the merits of that version. I find, though, that the alternate reading appears to be at least as well-supported (until we get more info).

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First, I think it is intended as a worldbuilding hook, a reminder that there is something else weird out there that the reader hasn't met yet.

A worldbuilding hook is more effective if it presents something tantalizing. In this case, implying a weird ability is tantalizing, but just implying a vague difference is not, given all the exotic fauna crawling around in the book.

If the Example Interpretation is correct, then inserting that worldbuilding hook in this way that leaves many of the readers with a totally wrong interpretation (bolstered by the fact that it is Hoid speaking, and that Siah Aimians like Axies can change their bodies in certain ways) is just problematic, because there's no literary value that I could think of in making those readers assume that Dysian Aimians have an ability that they do not have. It would just be a bad use of the red herring, and this is something any decent editor would catch.

Second, Hoid's previous line about Balderdash: "Isn't it odd that gibberish words are often the sounds of other words, cut up and dismemebered, then stitched into something like them--yet wholly unlike them at the same time?" comments on the superficial resemblance but fundamental difference of two things. If the Dysians have a vaguely humanoid structure while being obviously different from people, they fit that analogy better than a whitespine, rockbud, or parshman would.

The difference Hoid mentioned is a specific kind of difference: not just a generic difference in appearance, but specifically a difference of arrangement, as in the case of gibberish anagrams of real words, and that morbid imagery he used about cutting a person up and sewing him back together in a different way. Given that he mentions the Dysian Aimians in this passage, this again supports the interpretation that Dysian Aimians have a body rearrangement ability. Edited by skaa
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I doubt that Brandon's editors are privy to his worldbuilding secrets in any way that would allow them to catch something like that.

 

But yeah, I agree that Dysian Aimians being able to rearrange their body parts seems to be the most logical way to interpret that quote.

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I doubt that Brandon's editors are privy to his worldbuilding secrets in any way that would allow them to catch something like that.

You're right. I don't know what I was thinking.

Edited by skaa
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I still think he's talking about Adonalsium. <_<

It’s Hoid. He *was* talking about Adonalsium. And about Dalinar and about Aimians and possibly about himself as well. He's a layered man, our Hoid. ;)

Edited by Corax
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I kind of naively hope that he means for Dalinar to be Adonalsium 2.0. But I know most people don't think he will survive the series...

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He's a layered man, our Hoid. ;)

 

Like an onion. Less stinky, more likely to make people cry, and also becomes brown when left out in the sun.

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