Parshendi + Gemheart? (WoR-Spoiler)

[Shaukan-son-Hasweth]

Hi,

this is my first post on here and i don´t know if someone has talked about this topic before.
 

I am really fascinated by the Parshendi.

In WoR we see Eshonai changing her form during a highstorm. In this scene the spren bounds with her by disappearing in her chest.
 

This left me wondering.
 

Do the Parshendi have a gemheart?

Everything that bounds with spren in the same way has a gemstone involved: fabrials and greatshells.
 

Let me know what you think of this theory.

[DreamEternal]

Funny thing is, there is a theory Knights Radiant also develop gemhearts, that grow as they speak oaths and can hold stormlight better. I actualy think it is likely that gemstones are essencial for long term spren bonding in Roshar, since they hold Rosharan investiture.

[thegatorgirl00]

If the Parshendi have gemhearts, how come the Alethi didn't notice after killing them for six years? Gemhearts seem to be the only thing most of the Highprinces want. How come Bridge 4 didn't notice any when they were in the chasms cutting of the armor of the dead Parshendi?

[Shaukan-son-Hasweth]

If the Parshendi have gemhearts, how come the Alethi didn't notice after killing them for six years? Gemhearts seem to be the only thing most of the Highprinces want. How come Bridge 4 didn't notice any when they were in the chasms cutting of the armor of the dead Parshendi?

 

That's a really good point.

But dalinar mentions that the alethy never examined the dead parshendi, when he wonders about the beardless ones being female.

Also those gemstones could be much smaller than those that are found in the greatshells.

 

[CHOUTAGOD]

If the parshendi have gemhearts that means they can hold stormlight right? Then why were they so surprised when they saw Kaladin streaming stormlight? I would think they would streamstormlight too especially since the Voidbringers were known too hold Stormlight perfectly. That being said couldnt parshmen hold Stormlight too maybe, THAT would have definitely drawn notice. Just an observation not criticism.

[DreamEternal]

If the parshendi have gemhearts that means they can hold stormlight right? Then why were they so surprised when they saw Kaladin streaming stormlight? I would think they would streamstormlight too especially since the Voidbringers were known too hold Stormlight perfectly. That being said couldnt parshmen hold Stormlight too maybe, THAT would have definitely drawn notice. Just an observation not criticism.

Well, chasmfiends also don't glow despite having gemhearts. I think the "glowing" is something especific to surgebinders.

Edited October 30, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[CHOUTAGOD]

Good point.

[Cemci]

The gemhearts in greatshells are enormous by the way, and the Parshendi are only a little taller than humans. They probably don't have all the anatomy of humans, but it's fair to assume that they don't have gemhearts the size of human heads inside them. If Parshendi develop gemhearts, they're nowhere near as big as the greatshells'. Also, Knights Radiant in general do have human anatomy, so I would say no to KR developing gemhearts, at least not without developing some serious medical issues (the human body doesn't exactly have a great amount of space left inside it to develop a gemheart).

 

I don't think that Parshendi can hold Stormlight, otherwise I reckon we might have seen it in Eshonai's viewpoint right? And holding Stormlight and wearing Shartplate tend to go against one another because the Plate drains the Stormlight from the user (what happened to Kaladin in the arena with the helmet). Parshendi can bond spren, this is what they do during the storms, but by no means is that the same as a Nahel bond. 

 

Finally, Bridge 4 cut off the armour of the Parshendi, but that doesn't mean they hacked the bodies to pieces. Depending on how thick the armour plates are it's entirely possible that Bridge 4 removed the armour and didn't get a great look at Parshendi anatomy. 

[Tarion]

The gemhearts in greatshells are enormous by the way, and the Parshendi are only a little taller than humans. They probably don't have all the anatomy of humans, but it's fair to assume that they don't have gemhearts the size of human heads inside them. If Parshendi develop gemhearts, they're nowhere near as big as the greatshells'. Also, Knights Radiant in general do have human anatomy, so I would say no to KR developing gemhearts, at least not without developing some serious medical issues (the human body doesn't exactly have a great amount of space left inside it to develop a gemheart).

It's worth considering that any harm that the development of a gemheart could cause might be somewhat ameliorated by the use of Stormlight - It does heal, after all.  We've also seen a transformative effect from using it, in the case of the Ardent Soulcasters.  It's entirely possible that handling enough Stormlight for a long enough time could leave you with a dependency on it - We see it to some degree with Savants in Mistborn.  

 

I'm not sure it's likely, mind, but maybe the Heralds channel Stormlight less efficiently than the Knights Radiant for a reason.  And if you did develop a gemheart as a human, the Weeping could be a problem.  

[Yata]

To be honest I don't think that the Listener of the KR have a gemheart.

Anyway to be capable of "contain Stormlight" didn't mean be capable to "absorb Stormlight".

It may be possible to a Listener to be a Stormlight-container without the ability to drawn Stormlight within it's body. The Surgebinding-power give this ability and may change the owner body to create a "Stormlight-container" (the GemHeart)

[GoddessIMHO]

The humans of the Cosmere are not earthlings. I don't think KR have gem hearts but we don't really know their internal structure is completely like ours.

[Ari]

Why would Parshendi carry gems in their beards etc... if they had an actual gemheart to absorb Stormlight with?

[Secret Ardent Man]

Funny thing is, there is a theory Knights Radiant also develop gemhearts, that grow as they speak oaths and can hold stormlight better. I actualy think it is likely that gemstones are essencial for long term spren bonding in Roshar, since they hold Rosharan investiture.

 

My thoughts are this: 

 

We know that Gemstones hold stormlight (they glow when they contain it)

 

We know that the KR can hold stormlight (they glow when containing it)

 

We DON'T know whether the Parshendi can hold stormlight (they have never glowed "on screen")

 

We know that gemstones can hold spren (like the stormspren)

 

We also know that the Parshendi hold spren (the spren wriggles into them during a highstorm to effectuate "the change")

 

 

 

 

 

I believe that, while the KR likely do not develop gemhearts within their body, the Nahel Bond functions as a surrogate gemheart-like relationship, giving the KR the ability to hold stormlight without the gemstone/gemheart middle-man. The Radiants ARE the gemhearts in this analogy. 

 

Similarly, the Parshendi may or may not contain gemhearts (although there is a slightly better argument that they may when compared to humans, as we know that spren can be contained both within a gemstone and within a Parshendi), but I believe that, unless these postulated gemhearts within the Parshendi function as some sort of necessary organ**, the Parshendi also have an ability to function as a gemstone without being or containing a gemheart. Of course, their resemblance with gemstones differs from the Radiants', as the Knights assuredly hold stormlight, while the Parshendi as of yet do not. This means that the Parshendi share the spren-containing function with gemstones, while the Knights share the stormlight-containing function with gemstones--two different functions.

 

I am particularly interested, then, in how the Parshendi are able to attract the spren into their bodies. Eshonai's transformation chapter didn't reveal much--the spren just ran into her. For that matter, we don't know how Rosharans trap spren in gemstones in the first place. If we did, maybe we could draw additional connections. But for now, I don't think we can say much more.

 

 

 

**So, if the Parshendi had a gemheart, wouldn't a spren being contained within it isolate the spren from the organs of the Parshendi? Wouldn't such isolation pose problems in the transformation? Unless the gemheart functions like an actual heart, pumping...stormlight...or...spren juice?...throughout a Parshendi's body, I don't see how a Parshendi containing a gemheart utilizes that "organ" in their transformation. I think it much more likely that the Parshendi simply share an ability of gemstones, much like the Knights Radiant. 

[Cemci]

Might be worth noting that after the Knights Radiant fell, the normal people needed a gemstone to bind the dead spren-Blades. I agree entirely with Secret Ardent Man, the Nahel Bond replaces the gemstone and allows spren to bond directly to a human. Since the bond wasn't there after the Recreance, people could only bond with the dead Shardblades when they added a gemstone in the pommel. 

[DSC01]

Why would Parshendi carry gems in their beards etc... if they had an actual gemheart to absorb Stormlight with?

You know, for decoration. Heck, those could actually be the gemhearts of fallen Parshendi that they're wearing to honor the dead.

[Eagle of the Forest Path]

I strictly speaking have no opinion about Parshendi gemhearts, but there is something I've noticed concerning the KR.

 

If you check which Herald is patron of a KR order and then look up where the Herald is in the table of the Ten Essences, the eye color of the order is the same (or at least similar) as the gem linked to that essence.

 

We've only seen 2 of the orders' (eye-)colors mentioned so far: the Windrunners(blue) and the Stonewards(amber)

but if you check...

 

Windrunners -> Jezrien -> Zephyr -> Sapphire

Stonewards -> Talenel -> Talus -> Topaz (gem with a lot of possible colors, but amber/orange is a common variant)

 

The colors also correspond to the orders' icons on the color version of the KR chart, so there's something there at least, if only predictions to what eye colors the other Radiants' will have.

 

However, to get back on topic, I think it's possible that the Nahel bond, besides changing eye color, also turns the Radiant's eyes into something similar to a gem, making them more capable of holding Stormlight.

 

Possible connection with Skaa's Shardworld/Essence theory too.

 

 

Edit:

You know, for decoration. Heck, those could actually be the gemhearts of fallen Parshendi that they're wearing to honor the dead.

Not very likely, considering Parshedi go psychotic if you so much as move one of their bodies.

Edited November 3, 2015 by EagleOfTheForestPath

[DSC01]

I don't think it's terribly likely, but it isn't hard to imagine that they're freaking out because the dead aren't supposed to be touched until they go through a funeral ceremony involving removing the gemhearts. I dunno. I don't really care, honestly. Doesn't seem like a terribly important detail.

[Shaukan-son-Hasweth]

So, in this theory   if a KR broke his bond where would the gem inside him go?

[thegatorgirl00]

I strictly speaking have no opinion about Parshendi gemhearts, but there is something I've noticed concerning the KR.

 

If you check which Herald is patron of a KR order and then look up where the Herald is in the table of the Ten Essences, the eye color of the order is the same (or at least similar) as the gem linked to that essence.

 

We've only seen 2 of the orders' (eye-)colors mentioned so far: the Windrunners(blue) and the Stonewards(amber)

but if you check...

 

Windrunners -> Jezrien -> Zephyr -> Sapphire

Stonewards -> Talenel -> Talus -> Topaz (gem with a lot of possible colors, but amber/orange is a common variant)

 

The colors also correspond to the orders' icons on the color version of the KR chart, so there's something there at least, if only predictions to what eye colors the other Radiants' will have.

 

However, to get back on topic, I think it's possible that the Nahel bond, besides changing eye color, also turns the Radiant's eyes into something similar to a gem, making them more capable of holding Stormlight.

 

Possible connection with Skaa's Shardworld/Essence theory too

Shallan's eyes are blue, and the Lightweaver's stone is a garnet. Although I suppose maybe since she was already a Lighteyes, her eye color didn't change to that of her order.

[DreamEternal]

So, in this theory if a KR broke his bond where would the gem inside him go?

Good question. I currently believe the gems inside Radiants are microscopic and spread across their tissues, since the human body isn't made to have a gemheart and they aren't very good at holding stormlight. If the oaths are broken, I'd imagine the crystals are slowly absorved and eliminated by the body.

[Stormgate]

We should remember that Sanderson isn't above severely changing human biology to fit the magic system. (Case in point: Inquisitors). I see no reason why KR couldn't have gemhearts. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a plot point.

Maybe the get them after a number of Ideals? We need to get a WoB on this.

[Corax]

I think you might be onto something with the point about eyes, but I'm not sure exactly what. I just keep thinking about how the the Ardents who regularly handle Soulcasters are gradually changed. I think there's something there.

 

Meanwhile, it's not a huge change in human anatomy to seed in an itty bitty gemheart somewhere into the physical body, enough for a spren to get a hold of. Particularly if the gemheart's presence is seeded on purpose, by a Shard or at least a significant splinter. (I suspect that a physical vector for this may be crem).

 

Additionally, the theoretical Listener gemhearts would be similarly small. They don't use Stormlight, because they're bonding non-sapient spren. (Though "Forms of Power," like Smokeform and/or Stormform might be different). This would be similar, but probably not the same as the way that greatshells and sky-eels have symbiotic spren. I wonder if copying that process is how Rosharans developed Rhyshadiums.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Corax

[An evil 545lighteyes]

I think that the spren bonds directly to the listener, but they might have a gemheart to provide the energy for the transformation. After all gemstones get charged during highstorms, and it is possible that the great shell gemhearts provide energy or strength.

[Yata]

To me the Gemheart develops inside of a Human/listener/Grandshell body. After the Spren's Bonding.

 

We know that in the Roshar's fauna many species had a Symbiontic bond with Spren. It the reason of the Existence of Huge Animals like some Greatshell. If the gemheart was inside of a Chull at the beginning there is more easy to made breed a chull and then kill the offspring to gather the gem. Unless you had to wait maybe years to the develop of a Sizeble Gemheart to harvest, but it's an inefficient way.

[LordOfMortals]

Shallan's eyes are blue, and the Lightweaver's stone is a garnet. Although I suppose maybe since she was already a Lighteyes, her eye color didn't change to that of her order.