Argent

Dalinar's Flashback Chapter from Oathbringer

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Do you recall where that bit about Genghis Khan was in the Chicago transcript? I would safe it's safe to transcribe it now. 

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Was this the entire excerpt that he has been reading? I am so sad I haven't been able to get to an event for this tour and I missed it.

 

Can we discuss it now?

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Was this the entire excerpt that he has been reading? I am so sad I haven't been able to get to an event for this tour and I missed it.

 

Can we discuss it now?

 

This is the entire chapter, yes. And yes, it's open for discussion. 

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Holy storms! Dalinar definitely deserves his reputation. One thing I was a bit disappointed about was that we didn't actually see the phrase "black thorn" in the chapter, but I get where it comes from. Maybe the next in the flashbacks will use the actual term. 

 

I also think Dalinar's got this addiction to the Thrill. Different from just normal adrenaline junkies, he seems to be actually addicted to feeling the Thrill. 

 

Does anyone remember a particularly good archer from the first two books? I'm wondering if we've seen this assassin already.

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Oh WOW. This was even better then I assumed it would be. Young Dalinar is deliciously... despicable. He is awful, just plain awful. A brute without a heart who slays a dying kid as he runs past to kill another one.

 

How old was he? Around Adolin's age? I can't believe how different they are.... 

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That was awesome. Dalinar ha always been a top tier character and now he has confirmed his place as my favourite Stormlght character.

 

Charging through a fire to get to a fight... Now that is brutal.

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At first I was thinking the archer was Sadeas, because of the Shardbow, but then I realized he'd have to be a brightlord, and this doesn't seem to be the case.

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It could be the very trusted servant that Dalinar has bring 'Taln' to the shattered plains. If not him I don't think we've seen him unless he became one of his generals or captains that were mentioned.

 

 

Edit: After reviewing the information I have decided that the archer was most likely Captain Teleb.

Edited by TwelfthOfSnackTime
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Oh WOW. This was even better then I assumed it would be. Young Dalinar is deliciously... despicable. He is awful, just plain awful. A brute without a heart who slays a dying kid as he runs past to kill another one.

How old was he? Around Adolin's age? I can't believe how different they are....

Yes, it is just so... I can't see how Sadeas and Dalinar saw Adolin as a younger Blackthorn. I knew he wasn't as similar to his father as Dalinar thought, but young Dalinar seems like Sadeas... and in WoK he said Sadeas was better in the past...

Well, on the plus side, I am loving to hate young Dalinar just as much as I loved to hate Sadeas.

EDIT: The archer: I think he is that oldblood bodyguard of Dalinar, going by the blue tatoo.

Edited by CognitivePulsePattern
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I had to look up oldblood on the coppermind. I have no memory of reading about them before.

 

I was going crazy for a bit thinking he was an obligator.

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I had to look up oldblood on the coppermind. I have no memory of reading about them before.

I was going crazy for a bit thinking he was an obligator.

Ha! We found WalDo, the kandra worldhopper?

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Yes, it is just so... I can't see how Sadeas and Dalinar saw Adolin as a younger Blackthorn. I knew he wasn't as similar to his father as Dalinar thought, but young Dalinar seems like Sadeas... and in WoK he said Sadeas was better in the past...

While Adolin has a different personality than young Dalinar, he has probably killed many more humonoids who were equally unable to defend themselves.  Battle with a shardblade is just faster at dealing death.  And they both feel the Thrill...  Sadeas is pretty justified in his statement.

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This is the entire chapter, yes. And yes, it's open for discussion. 

This is the whole excerpt he has been reading, but it does not go up to the end of the chapter. He hasn't read the rest of the chapter publicly.

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Yes, it is just so... I can't see how Sadeas and Dalinar saw Adolin as a younger Blackthorn. I knew he wasn't as similar to his father as Dalinar thought, but young Dalinar seems like Sadeas... and in WoK he said Sadeas was better in the past...

Well, on the plus side, I am loving to hate young Dalinar just as much as I loved to hate Sadeas.

EDIT: The archer: I think he is that oldblood bodyguard of Dalinar, going by the blue tatoo.

 

Most of my theories go with the presumption Adolin does NOT resemble Dalinar. He resembles his mother, but his hero-worshiping of his father makes him act similar.

 

I so love to hate young Dalinar  :wub:  :wub:  :wub:  He was awful  :ph34r:

 

 

While Adolin has a different personality than young Dalinar, he has probably killed many more humonoids who were equally unable to defend themselves.  Battle with a shardblade is just faster at dealing death.  And they both feel the Thrill...  Sadeas is pretty justified in his statement.

 

Not exactly... Adolin does not like the killing. He does not actively seek it, he does not reveal in it, he does not lust for it. He does it because it is part of the rule, but the second the Thrill leaves him, he can't fight anymore.

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This follows with my we don't know a whole lot about Dalinar pre-Gavilar's death point. This Blackthorn is VERY different from the Dalinar we know, is definitely a brutal warlord, and I can totally see being best friends with Sadeas. Considering Sadeas being better in the past: I wonder if he actually was, but Dalinar's effectiveness skewed his wordlview?

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Wow this excerpt is finally up! It's refreshing to read such a brutal Dalinar. His flashbacks must be so much fun, which makes me get more hyped about book three :D As for the archer, judging from his appearance, I tend to believe he is an oldblood, maybe Teleb?

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Wow this excerpt is finally up! It's refreshing to read such a brutal Dalinar. His flashbacks must be so much fun, which makes me get more hyped about book three :D As for the archer, judging from his appearance, I tend to believe he is an oldblood, maybe Teleb?

 

That was my guess as well.

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How old was he? Around Adolin's age? I can't believe how different they are....

Dalinar said that the boy he killed seemed seventeen, only a bit younger than himself. My guess is that Dalinar is closer to Kaladin's age, around nineteen, than he is to Adolin's, around 23.

I could definitely see some similarities between Adolin's and young Dalinar. For example, they both seem to prefer a challenging duel over just slaughtering people on the battlefield. I think that Sadeas said they were similar because they act in a similar way. The differences are in their motivations and emotions behind those actions.

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Oh. My. Goodness.

Blackthorn. 

 

You. Are. Awesome. And "kinda" terrifying. More like extremely.

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How do you mark spoilers? There's spoilers all over the place in the following paragraphs. 

 

Also, both Dalinar and Adolin show a certain disregard for eye-colour. Counter to what we know of Alethi society and their segregation in this way, Dalinar hand-picked his elite, including dark-eyes. That shows to me that he pays attention to the less highly-ranked soldiers; he promoted his soldiers based on merit, and he doesn't think a position in his elite is guaranteed through being a light-eyes.

 

Also, we can guess that Dalinar probably won both his Shardblade and Shardplate. He doesn't have them yet in the flashback. He also doesn't have Gallant yet (I don't think a man like flash-back Dalinar would name his Ryshadium 'Gallant'). Adolin inherited a set of Plate when he was 16 or so from his mother's side, Dalinar is older than that at this point. Also, considering that he is such a prolific warrior at that age, I would expect that, if his family had sets of plate to give on to their sons, Dalinar would have one by the point of the flashback. Either Dalinar also got Shards  through his marriage (in which case his wife's family has a surprising amount of shards to hand out to the Kholins), or Dalinar got them through conquest. 

 

I think the most interesting observation about this chapter could be Dalinar's character and the difference to what Adolin perceives of his father. Obviously Adolin only knows the honourable Dalinar, but when Dalinar's sanity was in question in WoK, Adolin wanted to get the Blackthorn back, the see his father in his 'glory days', so to speak. Seeing how Dalinar conducts himself towards opponents on the battlefield, I don't think Adolin really knew what he was thinking when he wished for the Blackthorn to return, because Adolin himself shows more honour on the battlefield than the Blackthorn did. On a side note, Dalinar's arrogance and the arrogance Kaladin perceives of Adolin are differences like day and night. 

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Dalinar said that the boy he killed seemed seventeen, only a bit younger than himself. My guess is that Dalinar is closer to Kaladin's age, around nineteen, than he is to Adolin's, around 23.

I could definitely see some similarities between Adolin's and young Dalinar. For example, they both seem to prefer a challenging duel over just slaughtering people on the battlefield. I think that Sadeas said they were similar because they act in a similar way. The differences are in their motivations and emotions behind those actions.

 

Bah there isn't much of an age difference between Kaladin and Adolin. Someone said, in another thread, the chapter happened 30 years ago, which puts Dalinar somewhere in his early twenties, so rather close to Adolin's current age. I also take note of how he is leading his own army, a feet Adolin was not allowed to do until the end of WoK.

 

Hammer and anvil. His favorite kind of tactic: the type that didn’t allow his enemies to get away from him.

 

Adolin's favorite tactic is jumping across the chasm in order to carve a safe path for his men to join in the melee... This passage highlights how much young Dalinar liked to crush his enemy. So I am completely disagreeing with you here: Dalinar was all for the slaughter.

 

“Raid those buildings,” Dalinar said, pointing at a line of homes. “Let’s see how well they fight while they see us rounding up their families.”

 

He was willing to use innocent life to continue force his enemy to disengage, if enemy they can be. He does not even know why he is killing them, he is simply content to be allowed to kill, like a mad starving beast being fed live stock.

 

Challenge. He needed a challenge, storm it!

 

We have never seen Adolin demand a challenge, not in this arrogant full of spite way... especially not on the battlefield where all he ever sought to do was his job as best as he could. He was never bloodthirsty. The only time he was openly glad to have someone challenge him was when Eshonai rammed into him, but it was different. He could keep on fighting, but an honest duel was still within his means. She gave him a way to keep himself into the battle, without a fair fight, he was out. 

 

He engaged the first member of the guard, attacking with a swift brutality. Fighting on the battlefield wasn’t like in the dueling arena; Dalinar didn’t dance around the fellow, testing his abilities. Out here, that sort of thing got you stabbed in the back by someone else. Instead, Dalinar slammed his sword down against the enemy, who raised his shield to block. Dalinar hit in a series of quick, powerful strokes, like a drummer pounding out a furious beat. Bam, bam, bam, bam!

 

And we thought the duel with Salinor was bad???? This makes Adolin little dueling feel like children playing with sticks. The brutally displayed here does not even begin to compare to anything we have seen from the son. Even at his worst, he has never this bad... Salinor he beat in 10 second, he did not drummed on him like some mad beast out of hell.

 

Dalinar shook his head, picking up a fallen spear and striding past the youth, slamming it down into the boy’s heart as he passed. 

 

What to say of this one???? This chapter is a golden mine.

 

But I maintain my word, young Dalinar was AWFUL and bears little resemblance to his son. 

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On Dalinar's age here, he does mention that he bonded Oathbringer when he was "twenty Weepings old".  So since he is using a mundane blade here he must be younger than that.

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