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When two Elantrians have children...


kroen

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Are they born humans or Elantrians? I suspect the former, but if that's the case I can't imagine many Elantrians wanting to have kids; after all, if the kids aren't chosen by the Shaod (which, statistically speaking, they likey won't) then they would be mortal- which means their parents would have to bury them in one point or another in the future.

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Are Elantrians actually immortal? The one reference we get to this is rather apocryphal. Do any credible sources assure us that they do not age? I mean, Elantrians would almost certainly outlive their human children, but not necessarily by much. If you wait to have a child until you're 50 or so you might reach old age at the same time. I mean, we know they succumb to heart conditions. They can live longer with their heightened regenerative capabilities, but how many decades does it extend your life by? If they never died, wouldn't Elantris suffer horrible overpopulation?

 

For that matter, with a pair of Elantrian parents, I suspect any kid would get pretty much all the healing he requires to live nearly as long as his parents. Oh, you've developed a heart condition? Not anymore! Bad cholesterol? Gone! Fell and broke your leg? Fixed!

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I doubt anyone would worship Elantrians if their life span was only double that of normal people...

 

You mean, like, worshipping a pantheon of gods who will die in one week unless you let them feed on your soul?  Sanderson has shown in other books how a people could come to worship a people who live, at most, 10-15 years.  You don't worship the individual so much as the manifestation.

 

Warbreaker spoilers/cosmere at large:

I have a feeling that Elantrians can't have kids without knowing "the trick" much like the Returned.

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The Elantrian have longer life than the standard human but I don't think that they are live more than 200 years (not proof).

 

Now I don't remember if the Father of our favorite Dula, became an Elantrian after his born or not.

 

But Sereene didn't worry about the "having children" therefore I think that a Elantrian's children is just Humans.

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The Elantrian have longer life than the standard human but I don't think that they are live more than 200 years (not proof).

What is this based on? The only piece of information we have on Elantrian lifespan suggests that "Legends claim that they were immortal, or at least nearly so." (from the prologue) and yeah, it's "legends", but it's actually in the book and thus holds more weight than theories and guessworks that are based on nothing. Unless there's a WoB I'm unware of?

Edited by kroen
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What is this based on? The only piece of information we have on Elantrian lifespan suggests that "Legends claim that they were immortal, or at least nearly so." (from the prologue) and yeah, it's "legends", but it's actually in the book and thus holds more weight than theories and guessworks that are based on nothing. Unless there's a WoB I'm unware of?

They lived separated from the normal people and they was workship like gods. The people don't know many Elantrian as individual, nless you know one Elantrian to you everybody is the same.

Something like "Elantrian's death" was something hidden or of couse there isn't the "Immortality legend".

Therefore unless you know an Elantrian and He dies, you can't know about his death.

This is true if the Elantrians could live 200 or 2000 years.

End I rememers that my previous post was about what i think about, I haven't any proof and of course I may be wrong.

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Since we know Elantrians can just plain die of heartbreak (Galladon's father) I personally suspect that Elantrians aren't necessarily immortal but they're much longer-lived. As long as they have sufficiently long lifespans to outlive anyone who might remember their ascension plus a few generations, it's unlikely that anyone outside would be able to realize that they're not literally immortals. One point that could go either way, Cosmere spoiler

Though assuming no time travel or other tricks to skip years, Galladon is presumably somewhere around 400 years old minimum when he shows up in Way of Kings and that's assuming Elantris and the original Mistborn books happen in relatively close proximity; he could be considerably older.

 

Do I have proof? No, but it kind of feels right that they could be long-lived but not live forever. All the other forms of immortality in the Cosmere that we know about are either not true immortality or seem to come with considerable strings attached. But if anyone has a WoB on the topic, feel free to correct me.

 

And on the original topic, Raoden and Sarene clearly aren't worried about any possible complications, though the fact that he's going to outlive her and their child(ren) unless they win the Shaod lottery could be a source of dramatic tension in the sequel.

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All the other forms of immortality in the Cosmere that we know about are either not true immortality or seem to come with considerable strings attached.

Except for, you know, just being a non-returned with the Fifth Heightening.

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I know the legend at the start is one point of data, and if I had nothing else from the text I would believe it, even though it's been written by people who, we learn, have no idea how Elantrians even work and don't interact with them in a meaningful capacity.

 

However, there are clues in the text, though not as flagrant as in that prelude. There's the fact that if the Elantrian population is growing but they don't die, the city should have been packed to the gills, which doesn't seem to be the case. Gallodan's dad did not die of heartbreak; he died of a heart condition. He could have gotten it healed, but it didn't heal on its own. Elantrians heal quickly and suffer the ravages of time better... but not perfectly, clearly.

 

Given the concrete facts provided in other parts of the book, and the apocryphal nature of the prelude, I'm tempted to believe the hard data.

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Except for, you know, just being a non-returned with the Fifth Heightening.

 

I'd consider the effort required to get ~2000 Breaths (and possibly any moral qualms you might have about that process) to be an attached string, though I'll grant that it's not as severe as the others we've seen. It's clearly not easy to do since we don't know of anyone at that level by the time Warbreaker takes place (not to say there aren't any of course) aside from certain Returned who don't get the exact same benefits even if they have that many Breaths.

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Before Raoden restored Elantris, it was known that they could be killed by fire. Perhaps the term 'nearly immortal' refers to their ability to die from injuries they don't have time to heal, like decapitation. Perhaps they would keep the population down like the Returned, choosing to commit suicide by jumping in that pool, which may be a Shardpool. I have literally no clue.

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Are Elantrians actually immortal?

 

We just got a WoB on this!

 

Q: Something about whether Elantrians are immortal or long-lived (difficult to make out)

A: [verbatim] Elantrians have no physical limitations on their lifespan. The power will sustain them, but it's emotionally and mentally exhausting to be an elantrian, so as far as immortality goes it's actually harder to be an elantrian than other forms of immortality that exist in the cosmere"

(source)

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I mean, I can think of how ANY immortality could get exhausting... I've read enough fantasy to be familiar with the lament of the immortal. I wonder why Elantrians are worse than usual... Kids might be part of it, but, Warbreaker spoiler:

 

...so can a fifth-heightening human. And in that case, you could easily give your immortality to your child, or possibly just afford a second immortality.

 

Kay now I wanna write that story, of a filthy rich couple who are both at the fifth heightening, who have a new child every hundred years or so when they've saved up enough to afford another immortality for them...

 

EDIT: Turns out spoiler tags work better when you actually put them in...

Edited by Oudeis
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I mean, I can think of how ANY immortality could get exhausting... I've read enough fantasy to be familiar with the lament of the immortal. I wonder why Elantrians are worse than usual... Kids might be part of it, but, Warbreaker spoiler:

Maybe It's not just the infinite lifespan to be exhausting, maybe be a Dor-conduit 24/7 take some kind of stress.

 

Another idea that just come to my mind:

You have a very long long life in front of you, but you can't leave the zone where you live in. Maybe it's just as be in a golden cage.

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Another idea that just come to my mind:

You have a very long long life in front of you, but you can't leave the zone where you live in. Maybe it's just as be in a golden cage.

Well it's not like in Warbraeker where the Returned can't leave at all. Elantrians can go where they want. Sure, their power decreases the further they get from Elantris, but still.

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Well it's not like in Warbraeker where the Returned can't leave at all. Elantrians can go where they want. Sure, their power decreases the further they get from Elantris, but still.

I know, but think about: You could go everywhere in a second but you know that you will lost everything about your former status. In other nations maybe the peoples are afraid of you and could try to kill you.

I suppose that are not easy to be a "god without protection in a hostile world", any Shu-Dereth priest and believer want you dead. Every Misteries's Adept see you probably as a "best sacrifice ever" XD

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Well, you can always make yourself look like a normal human via an illusion

But wouldn't the power of that Aon fade the father you got from the city?

Actually, that's an interesting idea. If you get far enough away, say another Shardworld, would you appear as a normal human or would you still look like an Elantrian?

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But wouldn't the power of that Aon fade the father you got from the city?

Actually, that's an interesting idea. If you get far enough away, say another Shardworld, would you appear as a normal human or would you still look like an Elantrian?

 

Normal human, or if you used an illusory disguise, it wouldn't fade.  

Stormlight spoilers:

Galladon didn't look like burnished iron when he was conferring with Demoux and "Blunt" on Roshar.

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There's been a lot of speculation on this topic. First, you can clearly go as far as Teod, and still look just as Elantrian, even though your power is GREATLY diminished. Still, illusions are apparently remarkably low-power, since they worked totally fine before Raoden made AonDor function properly again.

 

So, first of all, your "golden cage" is... like a continent. At least a very large country. While still technically restrictive, I take issue with the notion that it's enough to make calamity of too-long life.

 

Second, what does happen if you leave? Do you turn Hoed without the Dor? Do you simply turn normal? Which of your changes are static, and which require power? Would you still glow if you were too far to access the Dor? Would your hair still be silver? Would you age while away? Would your age reverse when you got back, or would you still be that old?

 

If Shaor had been taken when the Shaod was normal, would she have aged to maturity, or been a child forever? Do mature Elantrians still grow and change with age, even though they don't enter senescence?

 

Also, if you're going to mention Warbreaker things, please put them behind a spoiler cut. Like this!

 

Warbreaker

Keep in mind child Returned do age to maturity then stop, so until we have reason to believe Elantrians are fundamentally different, it's not a bad model to consider. We see this in the God-Kings, and in ... I forget his name, the kid Returned.

 

Also, the Returned are not the right analogy here. They look more like Elantrians but they have lifespans shorter than most humans. Humans at the Fifth Heightening have negligible senescence, and are not bound to any one area.

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The distance thing might have a workaround (Cosmere spoilers)

Since we know from Way of Kings that Galladon is still alive however much later in the timelines that book happens and he's on a whole other planet. So either you can get enough power from the Dor to sustain yourself at interstellar distances, you can hack the magic systems in some way to temporarily use Stormlight as a replacement (hi 'Zahel') or you can be temporarily cut off entirely and still keep living. We don't know how he manages it yet.

 

As for Elantrian immortality being taxing, I wonder if there's something Spiritual or Cognitive about it, or if it's just that being a constant pipeline for godly power takes it out on you after a while. We don't get enough of a chance to see things from a fully transformed Elantrian's perspective to get an idea what it might be. Though now we might have a better understanding of why they would use the pool and why it was important enough to make a mural of.

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