Thoughts on Sixth of the Dusk

[Zenith]

Having seen very little disccussion on this, I thought that I might as well make a thread (and also delurk myself. Again.)! I think that we can assume it's in-cosmere, but either way I enjoyed it the most of the steelhunt material. Thoughts on it?

[Windrunner]

Generally not a good idea to assume that something is cosmere before it's confirmed to be, but in this case you are correct.

[Gloom]

I'm glad I don't live there. I liked the story, and look forward to the novella, but it seems like a rather hostile place.

[bookspren]

I had heard it was cosmere before I read it. Since there are magic birds, I assume there is at least one Shard on the planet. I wonder what its intent is? Foresight, maybe? Seeing possible futures is certainly helpful on such a harsh world.

Also the creatures that hide deep in the oceans and come up to kill the poachers just horrify me. I literally bit my lip hard enough to make it bleed. So, yeah, if I lived there, I would want a few dozen birds and never leave land if I could help it.

I also found it interesting that the world seemed partly modern--partly old-fashioned and ritualistic. Looks like an interesting story. Of course, I'm to the point where I'll read anything with his name on it. I've yet to be disappointed. 

[Windrunner]

I doubt it has a Shard, the planet is supposed to be unimportant. Maybe just a Splinter or something. This planet seems to have some sort of space travel, according to Brandon.

[Satsuoni]

Sixth has a very nice worldbuilding, as usual The sentient or semi-sentient beings, including Aviar, are interesting. One thing I would like to see, but probably would not : Sixth keeping to his original idea and letting the girl hang in the vines. The stories with such twists are rather rare in the literature I read, and would fit the setting rather nicely, but alas, I fear it is not to be. Still, looking forward to the whole story When is it due, again?

[bartbug]

On the splinter note...

Maybe it is related to Shadows of Silence in the Forests of Hell in that they each have splinters of the same Shard. I mean, there are only so many Shards, and we already know about half of them.

[skaa]

I'm glad I don't live there. I liked the story, and look forward to the novella, but it seems like a rather hostile place.

 

I certainly wouldn't go near those islands, but it seems that most non-trappers (e.g. those people from the Northern Interests Trading Company) are not used to that level of danger, so I assume that the "homeland" where the company is based must be a relatively safe place to live.

Edited November 27, 2013 by skaa

[Oudeis]

 I mean, there are only so many Shards, and we already know about half of them.

 

16 shards seems fairly confirmed, and I think I heard that there are 10 worlds.

 

Worlds we've seen officially in released books:

 

1. Sel

2. Scadrial

3. Nalthis

4. Roshar

 

Shards we know as parts of those worlds:

 

1. Devotion

2. Dominion

3. Ruin

4. Preservation

5. Endowment

6. Honor

7. Cultivation

 

((I'll get back to Odium in a moment))

 

There are a few worlds we know of from WoB or his two upcoming stories.

 

5. Yolen (Dragonsteel)

6. Shadows of Silence world.

7. Sixth of Dusk world

8. Ashyn (Silence Divine)

9. Braize (See below)

10. Taldain (White Sand)

 

If Sixth and Shadows are "official" Shardworlds, then that's all ten.

 

Other Shards we know a little of but have never seen...

 

8. Odium, from what I understand, was originally based on Braize.

9. A fellow named Bavadin holds a Shard on Taldain.

10. There is WoB that some Shard somewhere just wants to hide and survive.

 

So with Odium attached to Braize and Bavadin's Shard on Taldain, that leaves four "empty" Shardworlds, and seven Shards without a home. Even if Sixth of Dusk and Shadows of Silence are worlds outside of the important 10, they could still have their own Shards out of the 16. That would mean that of the 10 basic Shardworlds, there are 4 with two shards, and 6 with 1 shard apiece.

 

I certainly wouldn't go near those islands, but it seems that most non-trappers (e.g. those people from the Northern Interests Trading Company) are not used to that level of danger, so I assume that the "homeland" where the company is based must be a relatively safe place to live.

 

For my part I'd rather be a trapper. I guess it's easy for me, on Earth, to think that Investiture is exotic. On Dusk it'd prolly be boring and commonplace, and if I grew up there I'm sure I'd prefer to be safe on the homeland, but from my current perspective I would want to study (and maybe master?) the metaphysics.

 

Sidenote... at first glance, it seems the Investiture of this world is in the animals, and people simply tame them. One of the obstacles in making Super Cosmere Man has been that a body can only hold so much Investiture; like trying to listen to every radio station at once, they would all just interfere within your body. Since the Investiture on Dusk appears to be external to your own body, I wonder if a Mistborn or a Shardbearer could tame an Aviar, or any of the other animals on Dusk, and gain access to two systems of Investiture...

 

One thing I would like to see, but probably would not : Sixth keeping to his original idea and letting the girl hang in the vines. The stories with such twists are rather rare in the literature I read, and would fit the setting rather nicely, but alas, I fear it is not to be.

 

I feel like Sixth's impulse at this point is to find out how this girl knew where to find his camp, how she got past most of his traps, who else knows his secrets, and so on. Also for my part, I'm still suspicious. She gets past a dozen deadly traps, and then just HAPPENS to get caught in the only one we hear mentioned that sounds non-lethal, right before he shows up anyway? Setup.

[Satsuoni]

 

I feel like Sixth's impulse at this point is to find out how this girl knew where to find his camp, how she got past most of his traps, who else knows his secrets, and so on. Also for my part, I'm still suspicious. She gets past a dozen deadly traps, and then just HAPPENS to get caught in the only one we hear mentioned that sounds non-lethal, right before he shows up anyway? Setup.

Well, he could do that without letting her down, and then letting her hang there, right? I am, however, almost willing to bet that she'll be released - if not at first, then later And you are right about the setup.

[Windrunner]

But Sixth of the Dusk and Shadows for Silence are confirmed to be unimportant side-worlds, so they definitely won't count in the main ten. As for more than sixteen Shards, that seems like a rather large step to me.

[Satsuoni]

Hmm. Well, Odium is currently on Braize, but he has influenced magic system on Roshar, and presumably still has connections to his power there. Maybe these worlds exist in the same star systems as other Shardworlds, close enough for primary shards to influence them, but not their "main residences", as it were?

[Windrunner]

Possibly? I think a Shard has to actively invest itself in a planet to have influence there. Personally, I'm still sticking to the possibility that Brandon mentioned when he told us about the ten main worlds. Some planets just have a Splinter of a Shard on them, nothing more. This could power what seems like a planet that has a lot of passive powers and not so many active and flashy abilities. A bit off topic, but I'm not even convinced in the case of "The Evil" from Shadows for Silence that it comes from Adonalsium in any way.

[The Rooster]

I got a very Cloud Atlas feel from this story.  It reminds me heavily of the last segment of the book that takes place in post apocalyptic Hawaii.  Even the death vision remind of the influence of "Ol' Georgie".

[Shardbearer]

My understanding is that there are 10 shardworlds, period. If Brandon calls a shardworld "minor" it's because it doesn't have a huge role in the greater story being told. There are also other worlds that are shardless but have sentient life, which we may get to vist.

[Gloom]

Sidenote... at first glance, it seems the Investiture of this world is in the animals, and people simply tame them. One of the obstacles in making Super Cosmere Man has been that a body can only hold so much Investiture; like trying to listen to every radio station at once, they would all just interfere within your body. Since the Investiture on Dusk appears to be external to your own body, I wonder if a Mistborn or a Shardbearer could tame an Aviar, or any of the other animals on Dusk, and gain access to two systems of Investiture...

 

Actually, if the premise remains the same from the writing excuses think tank they used to develop this world, the investiture is in an aquatic parasite that the birds eat. The parasite is localized around the island chain which is why the birds have to be captured on the island and tamed. Those birds born away from the island chain lack the parasite, and as a result, the investiture found in those captured from the wild. It will be interesting to see how these parasites affect humans.

 

My understanding is that there are 10 shardworlds, period. If Brandon calls a shardworld "minor" it's because it doesn't have a huge role in the greater story being told. There are also other worlds that are shardless but have sentient life, which we may get to vist.

 

I'm not going to argue with Chuck Norris. Fear of spiders is arachnophobia, fear of tight places is claustrophobia, fear of Chuck Norris is called Logic.

[Oudeis]

But Sixth of the Dusk and Shadows for Silence are confirmed to be unimportant side-worlds, so they definitely won't count in the main ten. As for more than sixteen Shards, that seems like a rather large step to me.

 

Unimportant, sure, but they still exist. Do we know that there are 10 worlds, period, or do we know that there are 10 worlds that matter? If it's just ten shardworlds, then Dusk and Forests of Hell are worlds, and unless they are Yolen, Braize, Ashyn, or Taldain, this means we now have some information on literally every shardworld.

 

My understanding is that there are 10 shardworlds, period. If Brandon calls a shardworld "minor" it's because it doesn't have a huge role in the greater story being told. There are also other worlds that are shardless but have sentient life, which we may get to vist.

 

I'm with Ookla on this.

 

Actually, if the premise remains the same from the writing excuses think tank they used to develop this world, the investiture is in an aquatic parasite that the birds eat. The parasite is localized around the island chain which is why the birds have to be captured on the island and tamed. Those birds born away from the island chain lack the parasite, and as a result, the investiture found in those captured from the wild. It will be interesting to see how these parasites affect humans.

 

 

I'm not going to argue with Chuck Norris. Fear of spiders is arachnophobia, fear of tight places is claustrophobia, fear of Chuck Norris is called Logic.

 

Interesting; are the parasites the only form of Investiture? Presumably the water-shadows then also have parasites, as do the tiny mouse-things from the island. I'd be amused that the shadows are what happens when a single parasite manages to grow to gargantuan size.

 

Hee, for your second line. Incredibly off topic, I don't know if anyone here has read the Sword of Truth series. The wikipedia article for the main female protagonist states, "She has an irrational fear of snakes. By contrast, her fear of Shota the Witch-Woman is entirely rational and quite well-founded."

[Windrunner]

As I've said twice now, ten worlds that matter. Sixth of the Dusk and Shadows for Silence are not counted among these.

[Oudeis]

I've only ever seen the coppermind reference that there are 10 Shardworlds. Do you know where I can find the original quote?

 

EDIT: Found it. I'm not so positive that we already know that Sixth and Forests of Hell aren't "important" enough to be core, but you're right that we haven't heard anything yet that would confirm that they are core.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Ookla the Confuzified

[Gloom]

Sixth wasn't part of the planned series. Brandon brainstormed the book less than a year ago, and it will only be a novella. I believe that Brandon has, at the least, a rough outline of when and where for the relevant events of the series. I don't know how you could plan a thirty plus book series without one. We may get some cosmere info from the book, but most of that will likely be incidental. I'm still looking forward to reading it and arguing the merits of ingesting sea going parasites for the sake of a power-up.

[Satsuoni]

I would argue that something that gives you powers is closer to symbiont than parasite... Unless the side effects vastly outweigh benefits.

[Oudeis]

Do we think there will be different parasites explaining why some animals have some powers and some have others? Or all parasites are the same and they grant a specific power to each species they infect? How did land mammals get them? Do they infect plants? If they can infect tiny mouse-like land mammals, enormous aquatic predators and avians, can they/do they infect humans? How could they not?

 

Does anyone else see them as a regionally-based bonding organism, kind of a mix between Sel and Roshar, like if Spren could only grant powers on one island chain? If a mother bird is infect how come her children aren't just because they were born off-island? Perhaps the parasite is localized to non-reproductive areas of the body? What other effects do these parasites have on their hosts? If you fed a fully-grown, non-Invested Aviar from the Northern Lands a fish caught in these waters, would it catch the parasites and gain powers? If your Aviar got sick and you gave it some medicine, what are the odds it would kill the parasites inside and lose its powers? How would something non-sentient like an Aviar react to the loss of something like Investiture? Do you think Sixth's bird sees her own death while he sees his?

[Windrunner]

EDIT: Found it. I'm not so positive that we already know that Sixth and Forests of Hell aren't "important" enough to be core, but you're right that we haven't heard anything yet that would confirm that they are core.

I don't just make stuff up. If I'm theorizing, I make it clear that I am theorizing.

 

LANCE ALVEIN

Is Shadows of Silence a cosmere story?

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

It is cosmere, but takes place on an unimportant side planet that doesn't have anything interesting going on there. Hoid is not in the story.

 

Sixth of the Dusk was brainstormed, setting and all, on an episode of Writing Excuses, well after Brandon gave the ten Shardworlds quota. Thinking logically, this planet could not have been counted in that number as it had not even been thought up yet. I apologize if this seems short, but I don't just make claims based on no evidence without even saying that I'm taking a shot in the dark.

[Oudeis]

Wonderful, and since I can now see your evidence I fully agree. I never meant to question your honor, I just would much rather see the quotes myself.

[Scott]

...question your honor...

 

He's a Windrunner!  It would have been hard to attract that Honorspren without being honorable