A Joe in the Bush Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) At the Portland signing for Shadows of Self, I asked Brandon if all the shards had a opposite paired, and he replied to the effect that "Philosophically speaking, you could argue they did, but not all had polarized opposites like Preservation and Ruin." That got me thinking about what the other opposites would be for our known shards. Odium (Hatred) Would likely be opposite to Devotion (Love). The new found Autonomy (Free will) would likely be opposite to Dominion (Control). That in turn made me realize that the shards were paired with something like them. Odium and Devotion are both Higher emotions. Autonomy and Dominion are both Ideologies. Preservation and Ruin are both Natural Forces. So i started pulling apart the remaining shards and trying to guess what their paired shard would be. Though only one I'm even slightly confident in is Honour's Pair. Abuse. Honour is to bring people together, to protect those weaker than yourself, to defend and protect. Abuse is to break bonds, hurt those who can't defend themselves, to attack and destroy. What Magic system do we know of that might fit Abuse? Ashyn, the world of Silence Divine has a system where people purposely infect themselves with diseases to grant them selves supernatural abilities. They hurt their own bodies for personal gain, and spread the infection to others, hurting them as well. It fits. Less so than other intents might, but it fits well enough. So, in conclusion, or TL;DR: Abuse might be a shard and Honour's opposite. It's probably on Ashyn. Please, throw as many WoB's at me as you can, proving or disproving all or parts of this theory. EDIT: Nevermind. Found a Wob saying there is no Shard on Ashyn at the moment. Edited October 13, 2015 by The Only Joe 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Endowment could be the opposite to Honor.Give away and spread power, instead of make bond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Joe in the Bush Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I don't see how those are opposites at all. Honour is to bond people together, to defend, Endowment is to give to another. (My current Theory is that The shard that just wants to survive is Endowment's Opposite.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Simply because Honor (in the way that we saw in SA) is about "put together", Endewment instead is about give away. I don't say that the Honor-Endowment are surely opposite shards, but with the Shard that we know (at the moment) is just the one who fits better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 It is possible. One of my questions i want to ask are whether the Shards can be placed into groupings, similarly to Allomancy with metals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aon Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Just a random fact: one of the atonyms of Odium is Honor... Though personally I really do see Devotion as being Odium's most likely opposite.I thought a possible opposite of Honor would be something like Deceit/Deception or something to do with lies/stealing (dishonorable things)? ParadoxSpren that would be very interesting, though at present with so many Intents missing I feel it would be pretty difficult to make a model :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witborn Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I don't see the opposite of Devotion as Odium. To me, the opposite of devotion is apathy. I guess given the shards we know, Odium could fit but if there are other options, I'd turn to those first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirTraconus Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 What combination of shards would be Harmony's opposite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Wouldnt the opposite of endowment be cultivation? Endowment is giving something and not expecting anything in return, while cultivation is giving something in order to wreep the benefits later. Endowment is bestowing a true gift, while cultivation is take-baksies. Cultivation treats people as a means, while endowment treats people as an end in it self.The returned dont need to give up their breathe. They can endow someone else, but they dont need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobar14 Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Possible pairing with Autonomy: Autonomy: Self-Government, independent, not subject to control from outside. This makes a lot of sense if you have read that really long word doc. Dependence: Relying on someone or something else for aid, conditioned or determined by something else. Random theory that just popped up in my head. Dependence sounds a lot like what is happening on First of the Sun. We know there isn't a shard there now, but what if there was one at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobar14 Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 One more thought. In Biology, autonomy means growing naturally...without cultivation. hmmmmmmmm 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Dependence: Relying on someone or something else for aid, conditioned or determined by something else. It's quite what Honor do. Make bond and rely on someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobar14 Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 It's quite what Honor do. Make bond and rely on someone else. I agree that the Knights Radiant/surgebinders are dependent upon the Nahel bond to use their magic, but they are still the ones using it. Whereas on First of the Sun, the people depend entirely on the Aviar for magic, the people do not use the magic themselves. Its just a random and most likely wrong theory haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Sure but on First of the Sun and the minor Shardworld at all, the amount of Investiture is too low for a Magic System like Allomancy,Feruchemy, Hemalurgy, Surgebinder, ecc...The minor Shardworld magic isn't something that you can use it, it's more "interact with something with magic ability". There is a WoB about the minor Shardworld magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulcastJam Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 This is a tough assignment because most of these titles have several meanings an it's not clear which one Brandon is honing in on. For example, Dominion as referring to a conqueror or Dominion as referring to a domain would have different opposites. All that means is that everyone's guess is as good as anyone else's, and counterarguments don't really work. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Joe in the Bush Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I think dominion means both. Control and area. Control of an area. Odium has three different definitions as well, and all of them apply. The names of the Shatds are chosen very carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'd love to ask about Dominion's meaning but I'm pretty much certain that since he's planning to write another Elantris book it would just get RAFO'd. Personally I'm fond of the idea that Dominion is more in the 'territory' sense given Sel's regional Identity-based magic systems and how we have a WoB that all Selish magic is drawing on the same source. We'll probably have to wait for that sequel to get confirmation either way. Anyhow, thematically with known Shards I'd definitely pair off Autonomy and Dominion (under either meaning) but I could see Cultivation working in the second position as well. It's kind of hard to nail anything down though, given how little we know about any of those. With that I'd also say Honor/Endowment because the former is full of imagery concerning binding things (whether it's oaths, the Nahel Bond or Surgebinding) while the latter is one party giving to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PallonianFire Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 But couldn't Honor and Odium be paired? Honor is all about bonds, Odium is all about breaking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Joe in the Bush Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Hatred can bond men together though. Mutual hatred of some thing can forge a bond stronger than mutual love. Honour is about creating bo ds to defend and protect. Odium is about making people hate and be hated. They could be paired, but I wouldn't count on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Yes but honour theoretically creates lasting bonds while hatred forges bonds but they usually fall apart when the war or what not is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald101 Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Yes but honour theoretically creates lasting bonds while hatred forges bonds but they usually fall apart when the war or what not is over. That seems like the kind of partial-opposition cultivation and preservation would have together. Intents that do the same thing or work together sometimes, but not other times. Definitely not complete polar-opposition like ruin and preservation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spire Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 What about Endowment as the opposite of Cultivation? Growth from without as opposed to within? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Possible pairing with Autonomy: Autonomy: Self-Government, independent, not subject to control from outside. This makes a lot of sense if you have read that really long word doc. Dependence: Relying on someone or something else for aid, conditioned or determined by something else. Random theory that just popped up in my head. Dependence sounds a lot like what is happening on First of the Sun. We know there isn't a shard there now, but what if there was one at some point. If you're arguing for roughly opposing pairs, Autonomy pairs well with Dominion, no matter how you interpret Dominion. I'd love to ask about Dominion's meaning but I'm pretty much certain that since he's planning to write another Elantris book it would just get RAFO'd. Personally I'm fond of the idea that Dominion is more in the 'territory' sense given Sel's regional Identity-based magic systems and how we have a WoB that all Selish magic is drawing on the same source. We'll probably have to wait for that sequel to get confirmation either way. Anyhow, thematically with known Shards I'd definitely pair off Autonomy and Dominion (under either meaning) but I could see Cultivation working in the second position as well. It's kind of hard to nail anything down though, given how little we know about any of those. With that I'd also say Honor/Endowment because the former is full of imagery concerning binding things (whether it's oaths, the Nahel Bond or Surgebinding) while the latter is one party giving to another. We have WoB that the regionalised magic is not due to the nature of Dominion's power. That's at the least an implicit suggestion that Dominion should be interpretted more in the lines of "power in a strict heirarchy" than the "kingdom" meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 It makes sense to me that Odium's opposite was Devotion. It would make sense for him to shatter Devotion since he/she was likely (to Odium anyway) the most dangerous simply because he/she was his opposite. And then Odium shattered Dominion as well since he was in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) We have WoB that the regionalised magic is not due to the nature of Dominion's power. That's at the least an implicit suggestion that Dominion should be interpretted more in the lines of "power in a strict heirarchy" than the "kingdom" meaning. Oh, didn't know that. I'm having a bit of trouble finding it, do you happen to know where he said it? Edited October 14, 2015 by Weltall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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