Disappointed with TGS's ending (spoilers)

[kroen]

The scene where Rand was pondering on the mountain about the recurring cycle of Dark One/Dragon who locks him up and thinking what was the point of it all was amazing. I read in terror how Rand was contemplating to unravel the Pattern, and while a small part of me wanted him to actually do it, I knew it couldn't happen, at least not when there are 2 more books. But the way this was resolved was a resounding disappointed for me. Love? really? that's the reason Rank didn't unravel the Pattern? LOVE?! I took Brandon Sanderson for a writer who comes up with a bit more creative solutions to situations like this. Unless, of course, this entire scene was already written/drafted by Robert Jordan, in which case my sincerest apology to Brandon.

[name_here]

Although that is the proximal reason, I think you're misinterperating it a bit. Ultimately, the reason Rand was contemplating unraveling the Pattern was that every terrible thing would happen again and again, and then Lewis Therin pointed out that every good thing would also happen again and again. Also, events don't repeat precisely one-for-one, so it was possible things could go better.

 

It struck me as a rather logical and touching counter-point to the argument that suffering would exist as long as the Pattern remained.

[Gamma Fiend]

Yeah, it was a bit of a letdown that it took Rand one chapter to get over 12 books worth of horrible things happening to him, and being pushed to the brink of madness. But I guess Lews Therin was just like, "Dude snap out of it. Gotta get going to the Last Battle,yo"
There was just too much other stuff that needed to happen, there wasn't any room left to write about Rand wallowing in his despair.

[Argent]

I was happy with it. Didn't think too much about it. I guess after seeing how low he has gone, even a trivial reason such as "because of love" seemed good enough. Plus, Lews Therin's love for Illyena has been kind of a big deal throughout the series.

[kroen]

I also despised the scene where Rand flees through a gateway when he realizes all the food he brought for the city (forgot the name) was spoiled. Richard Rahl would never have done something like that.

Edited November 18, 2013 by kroen

[Topomouse]

I don't know who Richard Rahl is, but I think that was an obviously bad decision. Yeah there was little he could do at the moment but you can't just abandon a country like that. The point is that Rand was already close to the breaking point, he was making bad decisions.

 

And for the fact that love being what rescue Rand from the abyss is not very original: yeah it isn't, that doesn't make it less true.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Topomouse

[kroen]

Also, why destroy the Access Key? It could have been very helpful in The Final Battle (Note: I haven't yet read TOM and AMOL).

[name_here]

He'd been going mad with power thanks to having the capacity to shatter the world at his fingertips, and destroyed it to remove the temptation. Granted, it doesn't appear to directly tamper with the mind, so from a strictly logical perspective it could be used responsibly, but Rand had been starting down the path of solving problems by obliterating everyone who dared defy him. It was probably for the best.

[Gamma Fiend]

The access key would have been useless in the Last Battle. I believe he was supposed to destroy it. The only people that could've handled the Male Access Key beside Rand would have been the Male Forsaken. I just don't think any of the Asha'man could have been able to control that much power. And Rand was too busy fighting the DO the whole time, which he needed Callandor for. So he got rid of the temptation to use the Choedan Kal to destroy the Pattern, got rid of it so he wouldn't use it at the Final Battle, and destroyed it so it couldn't be used against him.

It was just too powerful.

Ediited: Put in spoiler tags, just in case. Don't wanna ruin any WoT goodness for anyone.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Gamma Fiend

[kroen]

The access key would have been useless in the Last Battle. I believe he was supposed to destroy it. The only people that could've handled the Male Access Key beside Rand would have been the Male Forsaken. I just don't think any of the Asha'man could have been able to control that much power. And Rand was too busy fighting the DO the whole time, which he needed Callandor for. So he got rid of the temptation to use the Choedan Kal to destroy the Pattern, got rid of it so he wouldn't use it at the Final Battle, and destroyed it so it couldn't be used against him.

It was just too powerful.

I really hope there weren't any spoilers to TOM and AMOL here 

[Gamma Fiend]

Oooh. My bad.
Although, thinking about it, I don't really think there's too much 'spoiler' info in my post, anyway. I mean, its basically been built-up the whole series that Rand and the DO have to have their showdown, that's been known forever. And since you know the Access Key is destroyed, what does it leave Rand with to fight him with? The prophecy-ridden, magical Sword Rand has been leaving laying around might work.

Sorry if I did potentially ruin anything though. Here's hoping to not though.

[kroen]

The only thing you said that might potentially have ruined a bit for me is that the Access Key would have been useless in the Final Battle. This got me thinking why, exactly, it would be useless while Callandor -a  much weaker angreal- would not be. Needless to say, don't answer these questions.

[king of nowhere]

I also despised the scene where Rand flees through a gateway when he realizes all the food he brought for the city (forgot the name) was spoiled. Richard Rahl would never have done something like that.

 

You mean the same richard rahl that forced a whole continent to submit to him through intimidation, declared  himself emperor and commander in chief of the army, and then when the nations finally accepted his rule he retired into the mountains to tend his sick wife and refused to give any order?

Or the one who abanddoned a people to slaughter because they voted against him at an election? ignoring the circumstance that the king, which is also their religious autority, told them to vote against him, and that 90% of that population (the haken part) is brainwashed since early age to accept anything they are told to?

the sword of truth has too much protagonist-centered morality, and while richard is a good man, he did plenty of bad things with little justification, and the story just forgave him because he's the protagonist.

 

back on rand, love would appear a clichè to us, because it's been overused. but rand don't have all our knowledge of stories. he's not genre-savy as we are. he would not recognize love as a clichè. anyway, he was in love at the time, and when you are in love all that stuff about loving makes much more sense.

 

Also, while fighting for love is clichè, and I personally think love is overrated, but it's still a nice thing. among all the things one can have to live for, it's one of the best. certainly better than if he had said "for consumerism!" or "for online videogaming!"

 

[Morsk]

You mean the same richard rahl that forced a whole continent to submit to him through intimidation, declared  himself emperor and commander in chief of the army, and then when the nations finally accepted his rule he retired into the mountains to tend his sick wife and refused to give any order?

I almost posted the same thing! But I didn't want to admit to having read 6+ books of Sword of Truth. Thank you for making this sacrifice so others didn't have to.

Also, while fighting for love is clichè, and I personally think love is overrated, but it's still a nice thing. among all the things one can have to live for, it's one of the best. certainly better than if he had said "for consumerism!" or "for online videogaming!"

Why could he not have remembered punk rock? I'd have saved the world for punk rock. But not online gaming. Love the games, hate the communities... If I remembered too much of it, I might've let Shai'tan win.

[king of nowhere]

I almost posted the same thing! But I didn't want to admit to having read 6+ books of Sword of Truth. Thank you for making this sacrifice so others didn't have to.

Well, I liked the first book, it delivered a complete story and didn't have the failings common in the rest of the series. I also liked the sixth book, the one where he's prisoner of nicci, because it shows some great character moments and is not solved by some magical chull-pull that conveniently will do everything the plot requires but will be forgotten the next time he needs it. Also, the villains are better fleshed out and don't just look like stereotyped communists (one of my many complaints with the sword of truth is that it feels too much like political propaganda).

Unfortunately, book one introduced rachel, who immediately took the top place in my "literary character that make me want to hug them", pulverizing the previous title holder (which was Vin in mistborn one. in the second book she develops an emo streak that changes my feeling from "wanting to hug her" to "wanting to hit her with a baseball bat"). I also really liked the Chase-Rachel relationship; basically everything they did together in the first two books was a crowning moment of heartwarming to me. So I'm finishing the sword of truth just because I've seen they will reappear in book 9 and want to see more of them.

 

 

Why could he not have remembered punk rock? I'd have saved the world for punk rock. But not online gaming. Love the games, hate the communities... If I remembered too much of it, I might've let Shai'tan win.

online gaming communities aren't bad. trolls, flamers and haters are only the minority. unfortunately, since they flame so much, they tend to be the most noticeable members. but the majority is ok.

[Morsk]

king of nowhere, on 23 Nov 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

So I'm finishing the sword of truth just because I've seen they will reappear in book 9 and want to see more of them.

If you're still enjoying them that's great. I'll warn you of two things that ruined them for me.

One was Goodkind interviews where he talked about his writing. I used to excuse a lot of the flaws as "quaint and amateurish, but he's really trying and putting his heart into this". The interviews made him a lot harder to sympathize with as a person. The other is the Ayn Rand cut-and-paste which starts in book 6. I'd already read Ayn Rand, so I get this huge "uncanny valley" reaction to seeing almost-Ayn Rand pasted into Goodkind novels. It totally creeps me out.

Quote

online gaming communities aren't bad. trolls, flamers and haters are only the minority. unfortunately, since they flame so much, they tend to be the most noticeable members. but the majority is ok.

I find the amount of racial slurs used extremely disturbing. The majority of people's willingness to "adapt" to it and ignore it as normal is even more disturbing. It's the last part I think we're very lucky Rand didn't remember on Dragonmount.

[Voidus]

The access key would have been useless in the Last Battle. I believe he was supposed to destroy it. The only people that could've handled the Male Access Key beside Rand would have been the Male Forsaken. I just don't think any of the Asha'man could have been able to control that much power. And Rand was too busy fighting the DO the whole time, which he needed Callandor for. So he got rid of the temptation to use the Choedan Kal to destroy the Pattern, got rid of it so he wouldn't use it at the Final Battle, and destroyed it so it couldn't be used against him.

It was just too powerful.

Ediited: Put in spoiler tags, just in case. Don't wanna ruin any WoT goodness for anyone.

Well he could have just obliterated every Trolloc, Dreadlord and Forsaken on his way to Shayol Ghul, then all the others would have had to fight was the Sharans and Demandred. Would have saved a lot of lives that way.

[Yata]

 

 

At first, I was same with you, kroen. I was like "Come on Sanderson! Love?!". But then, yesterday, I saw some interpretation. It was something about  the magic system in the series, One Power. You know, saidin and saidar are very different. You have to chase and conflict with saidin to control it, and you have to give yourself to sadiar, to control it. So here is the interesting thing. Saidin is acting like a woman to men and saidar is acting like a man to women.

With this post you made me fall from the chair and I'm still laughting

 

Anyway Rand knows (from the Prophecy) that Callandor has to be used in the Last Battle, and there isn't any "clue" about the Choken'dal therefore he knows that for some mysterius fact that the "Most Powerfull Tool in the Universe" was useless.

But more than all when he decided to " Don'tdestroy the whole multiverse" he was already drawn a colossal amount of One Power and he had to release somewhere (probably more than during the Cleansing). He may discharge the power Anywhere and destroy probably the whole planet or through the Sa'Angrel that had a specific protection aganist a overcharge. The Protection isn't enough but at least only the Sa'Angreal was destroyed not the Whole planet.

 

And probably Rand had figurates that the "MPTinU" had already played his Role (in the Cleanisng) and therefore so much power had to be more dangerous than other.

[Rayse]

Warning I cannot remember if this happens in TSG or later.....

 

Regarding Rand destroying the access key: I thought that was pretty stupid at the time. Who throws away a powerful weapon in battle? When Nynaeve heals one of the Asha'man by delving his mind and removing the thorns so she can then remove the layers of compulsion left by the taint it leads to her looking at Rand. Rand's network of compulsion is too vast for her to heal however there's a glowing light layer protecting him from the darkness. I think Rand realized the access key in cleansing the taint had itself become corrupted. When he pushes all the power through it the temptation to use it again is removed and an added benefit is the shield protecting his mind from the residue of the taint.