[Shadows of Self Spoilers] The Ars Arcanum

[Zalocx]

As I was sifting through the Shadows of Self Ars Arcanum looking for any juicy Cosmere tidbits Brandon may have put in there I was struck by the description the AAA gave about how combining powers is "like chemistry" and you get more out then what you put in. This relates to Twinborn having not just two powers that may be usable in tandem or compounded (depending on what metals you get) but also a third "effect" for each combo. This is super interesting in and of itself and I foresee it becoming the topic of much discussion on the Misborn part of the forum, but this post is about a possible implication this has for surgebinding.
 
The AAA mentions Roshar when talking about combining powers
 

On Scadrial, someone with one Allomantic and one Feruchemical power is called "Twinborn." The effects here are more subtle than they are when mixing Surges on Roshar, but I am convinced that each unique combination creates something distinctive. Not just two powers, you could say, but two powers. . . and an effect.

Most theories about Surgebinding have postulated that its a mixture of Honor and Cultivation, but almost relegated *between* orders. Edgedancers with their vine like bondspren may be of cultivation while Windrunners with the Honorspren were of Honor. But this seems to imply that the mixture happens *within* each and every Order. Comparing mixing the surges to mixing allomancy and feruchemy seems to imply that all surgebinders have one surge from Honor and one from Cultivation equaling the two surges per order.

 

The talk of the mixing producing "an effect" is interesting because we see that on Roshar too. Kaladin's natural skill with the spear, Shallan's memory, and Jasnah's uncanny sense of direction.

 

If this is true, however, it begs the question which 5 surges come from which Shard and why. For example if this is right then for Windrunners Adhesion needs to be from one Shard and Gravitation from another. Going through the Orders and using the concept of mutual exclusivity (Lets say Gravitation belongs to Shard A and Adhesion to Shard B, then Division must belong to Shard B and Abrasion to Shard A and so on) gives us this list:

 

Shard A:

Gravitation

Abrasion

Tension

Transportation

Illumination

 

Shard B:

Adhesion

Division

Cohesion

Transformation

Progression

 

Does this whole thing make any sense or am I just mentally chasing shadows? And if it does make sense to you, which shard do you think has which surges?

[Moogle]

There are other magic systems on Roshar which seem to derive from the Ten Surges, but will not be composed of just Honor/Cultivation. As a result of this, I think it unlikely that the Surges can be said to derive from one Shard or the other - much the same as I would not say any of the sixteen metals on Scadrial derive from Ruin or Preservation.

 

Also, I edited your post title to be a touch less spoilery. It wasn't too bad mind you, but better safe than sorry.

[Argent]

I think this is going to explain Wax's uncanny ability with Steelpushes - the bullet deflection bubble he creates strikes me as something only he, and maybe a select few others, will have the skill to create. I could maybe handwave something about how him being a Twinborn with control over two powers that both deal with position and momentum in 3D-space, as well as centers of gravity, is what gives him the skill necessary for a bubble like this... But I also want to attribute Wayne's understanding of people to something similar, and I am not sure there is a good intersection between healing and accelerating local time. 

[FirstSelector]

 

I could maybe handwave something about how him being a Twinborn with control over two powers that both deal with position and momentum in 3D-space...

 

I like this idea a lot, though I have to wonder if instead he's actually just a Steel savant.  His deflection bubble is almost subconscious, similar (I think) to the perks of being in a Radiant Order, which is why I think you have hit the nail on the head.

 

As for Wayne, it seems to me that his imitation abilities are very closely related to that of the kandra (c.f. Shadows of Self).  In fact, the latter seem to accomplish feats of healing and reconstruction in mind-bogglingly quick time, so I have to wonder if some of their ability to imitate humans stems from a similar overlap in Investiture.

[natc]

I don't recall ever seeing a kandra actually heal. They do, in fact, lose body mass from damage, like being bathed in acid, and only consumption seems to fix that (which would work for all life just as well anyway). The main reason they shrug off wounds is because they're just a blob of muscles anyway, so after being cut open they will just pull themselves back together. A gold ferring, on the other hand, can with sufficient health storage recover from being blown apart by dynamite or regrow limbs, effectively creating matter from "nothing".

[FirstSelector]

That's true, but the same basic idea is the same - they reconsitute bodily functions magically.  I would bet that, at a low level, the magical mechanism is similar.  I would guess that gold allomancy and Radiant healing is magically very similar, in that the Investiture itself rebuilds the missing matter.  For kandra, they aren't drawing on Investiture directly, or at least not the same level; however, their healing uses the same 'mechanical' roots as gold allomancy.

[Argent]

I remember wondering if kandra can interbreed with humans. I could root for a theory about Wayne having kandra blood.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

I think this is going to explain Wax's uncanny ability with Steelpushes - the bullet deflection bubble he creates strikes me as something only he, and maybe a select few others, will have the skill to create. I could maybe handwave something about how him being a Twinborn with control over two powers that both deal with position and momentum in 3D-space, as well as centers of gravity, is what gives him the skill necessary for a bubble like this... But I also want to attribute Wayne's understanding of people to something similar, and I am not sure there is a good intersection between healing and accelerating local time. 

 

My first thought was actually Wax's uncanny shooting talent. I feel like any Steelpusher could deflect bullets, but his unerring accuracy, remarked upon multiple times in the series to me smacked of the same type of "effect" as Kaladin's uncanny spear mastery. 

 

As to Wayne and his understanding of people it takes some stretching, but healers require empathy which allows them to "walk in someone else's shoe" and the depth of that undestanding is only increased with time, so if you tie accelerated time with empathy you get Wayne's mental walks through the neighborhood as he picks up an accent and some clothes and suddenly is one of the crowd.

[Moogle]

Miles mentions his attempts to make an "alloy" of himself when burning gold shadows - could his Feruchemical gold ability perhaps he be responsible for him allowing to do that? The healing is based on how you view yourself, and Allomantic gold might change how he does that... perhaps he could actually take the traits of his gold shadows and "heal" himself to have them?

[Argent]

Hmm. It's an interesting idea, especially considering that

1. Magical healing works with how one sees oneself
2. Miles describes Allomantic gold not as him seeing alternative versions of himself, but him being both versions at the same time

The latter ought to change how he sees himself, consciously or sub-. 

[The Sovereign]

Hmm. It's an interesting idea, especially considering that

1. Magical healing works with how one sees oneself
2. Miles describes Allomantic gold not as him seeing alternative versions of himself, but him being both versions at the same time

The latter ought to change how he sees himself, consciously or sub-. 

I remember noting this observation by Miles myself on my first rethrough of AoL.

[Zathoth]

I remember wondering if kandra can interbreed with humans. I could root for a theory about Wayne having kandra blood.

"You are wasted as a human." I took that line as foreshadowing XD Harmony will turn Wayne into a kandra.

 

Anyway Wax getting more skilled with his pushes from being a crasher makes sense, so does Wayne understanding people better (though to be honest he is terrible with women) and I love the theory about Miles. 

[aon]

Unfortunately I don't believe your theory about the Surges being half Honor and half Cultivation is correct:

The Surges are natural forces to Roshar (and would have been even if the Shards were not present), as the Metals are natural to Scadrial. Honor just provided the people of Scadrial 'access' to the surges, as Preservation provided 'access' to the Metals in the form of Lerisium.

 

I believe it more likely that there is a compounding effect of any two powers with similar design. If someone had access to only two Allomantic Powers, I would presume they would also gain this compounding - however having access to two, means you have access to the others... Which begs the question - Did a Mistborn recieve this compounding? (It would explain their finesse and natural spark)

[natc]

I'd like to correct there that lerasium is largely unnecessary for introducing allomancy into the population. The mists would've done the job during the routine snapping anyway, as the genes already existed; the connection to Preservation was just too weak. And allomancy is, indeed, powered by Preservation directly as far as we know, outside of burning god metal at least.

[WeiryWriter]

My understanding is that the Author of the Ars Arcanum was not referring to Honor/Cultivation when she refers to the combining of two powers, but rather exclusively to the fact that each Radiant Order has access to two Surges and a "Perk".  I.e. Windrunners have Adhesion, Gravitation, and "Strength of Squires"; Lightweavers have Illumination, Transformation, and enhanced mnemonic abilities.  Basically it's the two abilities combining, not the ultimate source of those abilities.

 

But yeah at this point I'm reasonably sure that Wax's steel bubble is the Crasher Twinborn Perk.

[Witborn]

My understanding is that the Author of the Ars Arcanum was not referring to Honor/Cultivation when she refers to the combining of two powers, but rather exclusively to the fact that each Radiant Order has access to two Surges and a "Perk". I.e. Windrunners have Adhesion, Gravitation, and "Strength of Squires"; Lightweavers have Illumination, Transformation, and enhanced mnemonic abilities. Basically it's the two abilities combining, not the ultimate source of those abilities.

But yeah at this point I'm reasonably sure that Wax's steel bubble is the Crasher Twinborn Perk.

Is it confirmed that lightweavers have enhanced mnemonic abilities as their combined power? I thought Shallan's ability to inspire people beyond what they are (like with Gaz or the bandits) was her combined power.

[Argent]

The section of the in-world Words of Radiance reports tales, possibly exaggerated, about the Lightweavers' "strange and varied mnemonic abilities." Given that - if these tales are true (and we have no reason to doubt them) - all Lightweavers shared these abilities, and their surges, the way we understand them, can't account for them, then it must be their perk. 

[Jondesu]

The section of the in-world Words of Radiance reports tales, possibly exaggerated, about the Lightweavers' "strange and varied mnemonic abilities." Given that - if these tales are true (and we have no reason to doubt them) - all Lightweavers shared these abilities, and their surges, the way we understand them, can't account for them, then it must be their perk. 

We have every reason to doubt those tales, because they're "possibly exaggerated".  In addition, do we know that each Order gets two surges and one perk, or is it possible that both of those abilities and more could be side-effects or perks that the Radiants may get?

 

jW

[DreamEternal]

We have every reason to doubt those tales, because they're "possibly exaggerated".

Because someone three hundred years after the fall of Radiants though they were exagerated. When we have a Lightweaver with powerful mnemonic abilities. Yeah.

[Moogle]

We do have a WoB regarding Shallan's thing being the Lightweaver perk, I believe. I'll get searching.
 
Edit:
 

Wetlander
In addition to the two abilities given by each surge, does a Knight Radiant order have a third blended ability, the interaction of its two given surges?

Brandon Sanderson
Not specifically as phrased there, but each order has quirks that are unique to it. They are magical quirks, but it's not necessarily a blend of the powers.

Wetlander
So Shallan's Memories is kind of a...

Brandon Sanderson
Is associated with her Order, yes.

Wetlander
It's not just because she had that wonderful ability, and Pattern came along and went, "Oh, I like this one!"

Brandon
No that is not necessarily what attracted Pattern.
(source)

Edited October 10, 2015 by Moogle

[Jondesu]

Yep, but note he says "quirks".  Not "a quirk".  That's all I'm suggesting, that this idea of "each Order has two Surges and one Perk" is misguided.  There are almost certainly multiple perks/quirks per Order, and not necessarily just ones we think about so far.  Kaladin's ability to make people believe in themselves and become soldiers so quickly (quickly enough to be miraculous) is one example, potentially.

 

jW

[Argent]

I wouldn't hang too tightly on that belief. Some "quirks" could simply be different manifestations of the same perk (e.g. for Kaladin "more squires" and "stronger squires" could be considered two quirks or one "Super squires" perk). Saying that someone has "a quirk" just doesn't sound right for what the comment is establishing. 

[Jondesu]

Is it confirmed that lightweavers have enhanced mnemonic abilities as their combined power? I thought Shallan's ability to inspire people beyond what they are (like with Gaz or the bandits) was her combined power.

 

 

I wouldn't hang too tightly on that belief. Some "quirks" could simply be different manifestations of the same perk (e.g. for Kaladin "more squires" and "stronger squires" could be considered two quirks or one "Super squires" perk). Saying that someone has "a quirk" just doesn't sound right for what the comment is establishing. 

 

This is where this conversation began.  I think it's safe to say that Shallan's ability to inspire people as well as her mnemonic abilities are both perks of her Order, or at least of her being a Radiant.  I don't think there's anything in-world or via WoB or any other sources that validates the idea that each order gets one distinct "perk".

 

jW

[Rockbud]

I found the part that suggested eating a bit of a lerasium alloy might grant a completely different set of 16 powers was more striking. Did love the interlacing of roshar and sel magic as comparisons too though.

[Confused]

I think there’s an important distinction between Rosharian Knight Radiant Surge combinations and Scadrial “twinborn” combinations. The Roshar combinations derive from the “mandate meshing” of two different Shard investitures (to use a more alliterative phrase for a concept Moogle first described as “intent meshing”). Scadrial “twinborn” combinations arise instead as different manifestations of the SAME mandated investiture – Preservation’s.

 

This distinction may explain why the individual Surges used by each KR order seem to operate differently from order to order – the “something new” mentioned in the SoS A². For example, Shallan and Jasnah are both Soulcasters, but apparently only Jasnah can physically teleport herself to Shadesmar. I think the Roshar “effects” discussed in other posts, like Lightweavers’ mnemonic ability, must be related to this “new” power but are not the “new” power itself.

 

Apart from text, I base my analysis on the following premises: (1) The Surges encompass the entire range of Spiritual Realm “connections” that bind all Cosmere objects. I can’t think of a universal force or concept that is not represented on the list of Surges. (2) Each Shard’s power is identical in its ability to affect each of the universal forces in some way. The differences among the Shards derive from each Shard’s mandate (intent), how each Shard expresses its power.

 

Investiture is investiture is investiture, and only the Shard’s mandate (intent) changes how the investiture manifests and is used. Rosharian “mandate-meshing” must necessarily create a new form of mandated investiture.

 

The SoS A² highlights the more “subtle” nature of Scadrial twinborn combinations. It states that such combinations produce a new “effect,” rather than a new power like on Roshar. Since both allomancy and feruchemy rely on Preservation’s investiture, it would be surprising if the combination could create a new “power.”

 

Other observations:

 

1. If Wayne does become a kandra, he will be a very rich one. He’s about to venture fund the Thomas Edison of her day, whose last name of Tarcsel includes the letters “Tesla.” (Hmm, and also includes “sel”…Do we smell a Worldhopper?)
2. The SoS A² states that the “God Metals” can be alloyed to create “an entirely different set of sixteen [base allomantic metals] each.” That suggests that the choice of the original set of sixteen was purely arbitrary. It does confirm the importance of the number 16, though, at least on Scadrial.
3. Note the SoS A² statement that feruchemy has “some feelers in the Physical, some in the Cognitive, and even some in the Spiritual.” I interpret this statement to mean that feruchemy can store attributes located in each of the realms. The idea of storing Spiritual attributes – as Soulbearers apparently can – is fascinating. I can understand why the Terris prefer their experimentation to go unnoticed.
4. Soulbearers! People who can store their own souls in their metalminds! The implications boggle!
5. The SoS A² confirms that “none of the Investitures are actually evil.” While that’s simply the A³’s opinion, just as Hoid’s comments about Rayse in the Letter reflect his opinion, this statement at least supplies strong evidence that Odium is not evil. The A³seems more objective on the subject than Hoid.
6. But then we have the comments on hemalurgy, an art “of the greatest interest” to the A³ because it is “primarily concerned with things of the Spiritual Realm.” Either the A³ is creepy – a Dr. Frankenstein of the Soul - or it may be possible to perform hemalurgy without killing the power’s donor. The Recreance itself provided the first half of a hemalurgical operation – the ripping out of the power source from the donor (the Knights Radiant). Perhaps if the Radiant spren had donees immediately ready to receive the transplant to their own Spirit Web, the spren wouldn’t have “died.”

 

Just some thoughts…

Edited October 11, 2015 by Confused