Seonid

Bavadin's Intent

122 posts in this topic

A question:

Has he mentioned Ruin and Preservation as this two Shards or only two Shards on Scandrial?

Interesting point. 

Wouldn't Harmony be considered ONE Shard since he is the COMBINATION of Preservation and Ruin? 

 

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He explicitly confirmed that he is referring to Ruin and Preservation. So we don't "freak out," as he put it. Because I was freaking out.

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well, that kills my theory before I even codified it.

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So, I just got out of the midnight release event, and I asked Brandon what the intent of Bavadin's shard is. After conversing with Isaac, he was willing to release it.

Bavadin's Intent is Autonomy

Boom.   One more piece of the puzzle...something new to theorize about...and ultimately drive me just a little closer to cosmere based insanity...by the way have an upvote, you totally deserve it.

Edited by hoidhunter
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Hm

With this we have...

...two powers - Ruin and Preservation

...two Shards

...only one known Holder - Sazed

Is it possible Ruin had himself invested in someone else - someone called Trell?

It looks like Mr Sanderson is trying to bring us back from a wrong way of thinking with Bavadin.

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I think Trell was responsible for the original Trelagism that is mentioned in The Final Empire. Miles' Trellism seems to have nothing but the name of the god in common with it. Trell, the person, is probably from Bavadin's planet.

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Hm

With this we have...

...two powers - Ruin and Preservation

...two Shards

...only one known Holder - Sazed

Is it possible Ruin had himself invested in someone else - someone called Trell?

It looks like Mr Sanderson is trying to bring us back from a wrong way of thinking with Bavadin.

 

It's also entirely possible that whatever Shard was responsible for the events in SoS was acting through agents and is not present on Scadrial.

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It's also entirely possible that whatever Shard was responsible for the events in SoS was acting through agents and is not present on Scadrial.

 

I am about 90% certain that this is what was going on. Sazed would have known if another Shardholder was in the vicinity of his planet, and with two Shards, he probably would have been able to shut them down pretty fast.

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My problem isn't this possibility, it's the definition of "Shard" as a being connected with a power.

With an agent there would be a third power, not a second Shard.

Another thing - how could someone use Hemalurgy, the practise linked with Ruin/Ati?

Don't know, but there's the feeling this is connected with the southern people.

Ati was free after WoA and like Sazed said - "he is technically everywhere".

Rashek had known about this people, they were his reserve for humanity - wouldn't Ruin then do something against this group?

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Power is power. Another Shard could find a way to hack hemalurgy for their purposes. The Returned are associated with Endowment, but Vasher is still able to use Stormlight (probably associated with Honor, but maybe Cultivation, as well), rather than Breath, to keep himself alive.

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I'd read Autonomy more as independence, doing things for yourself and eschewing the will of others (so, an opposite to Dominion). Perhaps you could take it a step further and say Autonomy is somewhat related somewhat to anarchy.

This was the point I was going to raise.  Autonomy en masse is a rather chaotic thing to encourage, to use the D&D definition for chaotic.  Everyone is potentially getting in everyone's way... not exactly the trend of pacifism and hands-off. :)  I'm definitely in agreement about why Autonomy is alone (rimshot?) on that particular world.

 

@DSC01 & Hypatia: We also don't know how many of the original 16 were in communication with each other before going their separate ways and ending up on their respective worlds, not counting Odium since he's actively seeking out the others to Splinter them.  My point being, who knows what information they shared with each other about their new powers and Investments before finally "settling down"?  I'm kind of fumbling along the lines of other Shards likely knowing how to fashion and use Hemalurgy (Invested metal in general?) against Shards in ways that wouldn't necessarily be known to newer holders such as Harmony despite Harmony's Ruin Shard being the source of that manifestation of Investiture.

 

To use a more real world example: one navigator might not know how to use the sextant the other has, but that doesn't mean they can't navigate using the same general reference points (sun, stars, etc.).  The method would differ, but they're still using the same general principle to get to the same place.  One just would be better at it, because that one has the tool and knowledge (the Shard), while the other just has the general theory (the above-mentioned collaboration and info sharing*).  Does that make sense?

 

 

* I'm also wondering lately just how much being aware of the Spiritual Realm is involved, even though Shards technically transcend all of the realms (presumably since they're primal forces of creation).  Truth, even abstract, is a powerful thing to have.

Edited by dvoraen
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Power is power. Another Shard could find a way to hack hemalurgy for their purposes. The Returned are associated with Endowment, but Vasher is still able to use Stormlight (probably associated with Honor, but maybe Cultivation, as well), rather than Breath, to keep himself alive.

I think this is probably a pretty good analogy, actually.  regardless of who the other shard is, if they can create a solid/metal version of their essence, analogous to atium or lerasium, then it stands to reason that it could probably be used for hemalurgy.

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It's interesting that this came out in October 2015 but Brandon RAFO'ed this exact question in January 2015:


Interview: Jan 17th, 2015 | Firefight Tour - El Cerrito, CA (Paraphrased)

Question: Will you tell us the Intent of Bavadin’s Shard?

Brandon Sanderson: The Intent of Bavadin’s Shard? No. But good question. Have a RAFO card.

Edited by KidWayne
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a bit strange, but given that he has so much stuff going on in the cosmere, it isn't exactly surprising that he would get mixed up or even change his mind on what needs to be RAFOed

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Brandon being Brandon has probably wrote a Diagram for himself to know when and which hints he can drop.

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Brandon has long been known to RAFO questions many times and then answer them at some later point. Sometimes, that's far less than 9 months later. For example, The Letter. I know people were trying to get him to confirm that Hoid wrote it, but he kept RAFOing it. I finally asked him at the Rithmatist signing in June 2013 about Hoid having things he shouldn't since he had the Element and the bead of Lerasium. And that's when Brandon said the two were the same, tacitly confirming (finally) that Hoid wrote the Letter. After that, he started answering direct questions about Hoid and The Letter.

I think the reason he answered this one about Bavadin is partially because of Shadows and partially because Seonid is a Sharder and Brandon knew it. That's just a guess though.

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But why RAFO it after he had already answered it months previously? I can't believe he would forget something like that.

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But why RAFO it after he had already answered it months previously? I can't believe he would forget something like that.

Check again. The RAFO is from January 2015, while the answer is from October 2015.
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The RAFO is from January 2015, while the answer is from October 2015. 

 

Smh, totally misread that as January 2016. I can number good and stuff.

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I dont know hiw the spoiler thing works so don't read unless you have read secret history and bands of mourning.

Ok so 2 things about Autonomy, firstly doesn't wax mention about how he feels the purpose of law is to keep people from interfering with other people's freedom? So possibly from sanderson point of view a perfectly autonomic society has a 'perfect' law system and democracy to give everyone the maximum amount of possible freedom? Then bavadins intent could be to input this law system everywhere in the cosmere. Finally is it just me that thinks Kelsier, Trell and Autonomy are very well linked? Bearing in mind kelsier has strong commitment both to survival and freedom and we know from secret history he's experienced shard power but that wasn't meant for him and has set himself up as a god already?

Edited by MathiasT
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Put your spoiler content inside tags like this: [ spoiler ] content [/ spoiler ] (remove the spaces before and after the brackets).  Definitely required outside of those spoiler boards, for that type of information.

 

jW

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