Seonid

Bavadin's Intent

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So, I just got out of the midnight release event, and I asked Brandon what the intent of Bavadin's shard is. After converting with Isaac, he was willing to release it.

Bavadin's Intent is Autonomy

wow! just wow!!

I feel i should be able to Upvote you more than once??

 

Some amazing theories here on this thread, you will know which ones i mean when you see them posted in the Forum and claim they're my own  :ph34r: LOL

 

I think the grudge Hoid holds against Bavadin and Rayse predates them claiming their Shards.

Brandon once said that Bavadin was one of his favorite Shard Holders and said Hoid and Rayse were once friends..So going off that i assume it was something they did that ticked him off not that they are Shardholders.

 

It also sort of makes sense Adolansium in it's complete form would balance itself out, 8 facets with two extremes balancing itself out.

 

SOS Spoilers:

I think Odium has his hands full on Roshar to be in SOS i also happened to think it was Bavadin interfering but since we know his Shard Autonomy (Freedom/Independence/self governing) it only strengthens my belief.

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So I think this kind of applies in this thread, since it's the Shard Autonomy that it's all about, but...

 

Either Trell isn't Autonomy, or Bavadin died somewhere along the way and Trell picked it up. I had someone ask Brandon the other day, and he said Trell is NOT from Yolen. So, I take that as he was not one of the original Shards.

 

Thoughts?

 

*I'd also like to be added to the White Sand PM, since there is more I'd like to say on this topic there.

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I had someone ask Brandon the other day, and he said Trell is NOT from Yolen.

 

Woah.  If Trell isn't from Yolen, then either: A. Like you said, some shard has died somewhere along the way, or B. He's not a Shardholder.

 

Either way, crazy stuff.  Do you have reference/link to the WoB that says that?

Edited by dklee10
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It was a guy in the "The Wheel of Time." facebook group. Not entirely sure how to link his post here, but he asked people to give him questions to ask Brandon. After the event, he posted the following:

"Shout out to B, thanks for the signing, keep doing what you do best, storm light 3 coming next year November, trell isn't native to yolen, egwene had to die, not sure about war breaker, I dunno about me but he was def surrounded by 'badass mother*r' spren"

 

Emphasis mine.

Edited by PallonianFire
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Not being native to Yolen is not necessarily the same thing as not being an original Shardholder. We do not yet know whether world-hopping predates the Shattering.

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Not being native to Yolen is not necessarily the same thing as not being an original Shardholder. We do not yet know whether world-hopping predates the Shattering.

 

Technically true, I suppose, but isn't there a WoB somewhere saying that all humans originated from Yolen?  (Or at least were modeled after those on Yolen)  I guess that doesn't prove anything; colonists could have left, settled somewhere else, then after a couple generations, Trell could have come back for the shattering, but I think that might be stretching it a bit.  I suppose this brings the question, are all shardholders human?

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Technically true, I suppose, but isn't there a WoB somewhere saying that all humans originated from Yolen?  (Or at least were modeled after those on Yolen)  I guess that doesn't prove anything; colonists could have left, settled somewhere else, then after a couple generations, Trell could have come back for the shattering, but I think that might be stretching it a bit.  I suppose this brings the question, are all shardholders human?

 

We also do not know that all original shardholders are human. ;)

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WoB that all 16 original shardholders were from Yolen: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1052#106

 

"Nutiketaiel: Were all the original sixteen Shardholder from Yolen?  Brandon Sanderson: Yes."

 

*Note that I don't know if there's any etiquette for quoting Brandon; I just cited the first source I could find from a google search.

Edited by dklee10
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Sweet, NOW that tells us something.

 

edit: You did just fine. Links to theoryland with the anchor for the individual quote are great. I usually also copy-paste the text into a quote box for convenience, so people can read it here or verify it via the link. :)

 

extra edit: Although it possibly still doesn't tell us as much as we think it does, depending on whether Brandon is interpretting Trell to mean the Shard whose metal was used or not. It could be that Trell and that Shard are actually different beings.

Edited by Ari
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Now might be a good time to ask if the being currently worshipped under the name Trell is the same as the Trell that was worshipped pre-Final Empire.

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But then Trell - whatever he/she/it is - can't be Rayse or Bavadin.

Possibilities:

He is another Shard.

He is a new holder of one Shard - but with the Odium/Authonomy - Theories, this would mean the original Holder (Rayse or Bavadin) is dead.

He is something like Sazed, a united Shard - but then both - Rayse and Bavadin would be dead.

From the color of the metal - IF this is connected - I tend to a united Shard, but neither Odium nor Authonomy. Both Rayse and Bavadin seem to be around at time.

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It might be an idea to ask if Trell actually is a Shard (at least, I don't recall if it actually has been confirmed, only insinuated)

Edited by ParadoxSpren
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It might be an idea to ask if Trell actually is a Shard (at least, I don't recall if it actually has been confirmed, only insinuated)

True, he could be a splinter or an immortal worldhopping agent of a shard.

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It might be an idea to ask if Trell actually is a Shard (at least, I don't recall if it actually has been confirmed, only insinuated)

 

As of Shadows of Self there are only two Shards on Scadrial. Ruin and Preservation. This was confirmed by Brandon during the Chicago signing, people curious enough will be able to find it in the transcript whenever it goes up.

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As of Shadows of Self there are only two Shards on Scadrial. Ruin and Preservation. This was confirmed by Brandon during the Chicago signing, people curious enough will be able to find it in the transcript whenever it goes up.

 

Man I am slow this week.  Missed this, then with the other topic. 

 

Now that I've given it a lot more thought, I've got a few better ideas kicking around but there's a question or two I'm thinking of asking brandon first e.g.. have we ever seen the 'Trell' from Era 2 physically on-screen in-book?

Edited by ParadoxSpren
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Man I am slow this week.  Missed this, then with the other topic. 

 

Now that I've given it a lot more thought, I've got a few better ideas kicking around but there's a question or two I'm thinking of asking brandon first e.g.. have we ever seen the 'Trell' from Era 2 physically on-screen in-book?

 

Heh, with new knowledge coming out literally every day, it's hard to stay on top of it all.

 

As for your question - which sounds awfully like "RAFO me, please?" - I would start by finding out whether the Trell Sazed told us about in Era 1 is the same Trell Marasi believes to have discovered in Era 2. It sounds, to me, more likely to get you a response. 

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Heh, with new knowledge coming out literally every day, it's hard to stay on top of it all.

 

As for your question - which sounds awfully like "RAFO me, please?" - I would start by finding out whether the Trell Sazed told us about in Era 1 is the same Trell Marasi believes to have discovered in Era 2. It sounds, to me, more likely to get you a response. 

 

I know, which I'm afraid whatever questions i ask will be >.> I was comparing the two Trell's and from what I can tell, I don't believe they are. Pre-FE, Trelagism was all about mapping the stars, learning and mathematics and the Nelazan weren't an advanced people. So perhaps either someone purposely altered them (Saze/the Set) or something very fishy is going on here. It sounds quite similar to the way Rashek acted or perhaps the Citizen guy in Era 1, as someone mentioned in another topic a while ago.

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I asked Brandon if we'd seen Trell in a published book and he gave me an immediate RAFO. 

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So, I just got out of the midnight release event, and I asked Brandon what the intent of Bavadin's shard is. After converting with Isaac, he was willing to release it.

Bavadin's Intent is Autonomy

Two things. That should be conversing with Issac, and this post now has 90 upvotes. Congrats Seonid. You nearly have the highest upvoted post on the site.

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Two things. That should be conversing with Issac, and this post now has 90 upvotes. Congrats Seonid. You nearly have the highest upvoted post on the site.

 

Two more things. It now reads conversing with Isaac, and thank you very much for the upvotes, folks. (Thanks for pointing my spelling error out, Joe!)

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Getting a new Shard's (or Shardholder's) name is a distinct achievement here. After all, there are only so many of them left, and I am sure some of them we'll see in books for the first time.

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As of Shadows of Self there are only two Shards on Scadrial. Ruin and Preservation. This was confirmed by Brandon during the Chicago signing, people curious enough will be able to find it in the transcript whenever it goes up.

Well to be fair Odium isn't on Roshar either . . .

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Getting a new Shard's (or Shardholder's) name is a distinct achievement here. After all, there are only so many of them left, and I am sure some of them we'll see in books for the first time.

 

I was thinking about trying to ask for the hide and survive Shard's name but I might settle for a Shardholder's name we don't know (or the Shard that isn't invested in a planet, unless I'm misremembering that one)

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As of Shadows of Self there are only two Shards on Scadrial. Ruin and Preservation. This was confirmed by Brandon during the Chicago signing, people curious enough will be able to find it in the transcript whenever it goes up.

 

We all know the Shard interfering with Scadrial isn't on Scadrial yet. That doesn't mean that "Trell" isn't a signifier for whatever Shard is invested in those spikes, especially if that shard has been sending agents to Scadrial for some time.

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A question:

Has he mentioned Ruin and Preservation as this two Shards or only two Shards on Scandrial?

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