The Diaemus Project

[Kobold King]

Aww, man. I'm late to the party. Do you guys mind if I still join up??

 

INTRUDER ALERT. INTRUDER ALERT. RELEASE THE CERBERI!

 

By which I mean, no, not at all.

 

 

 

On other news, as much as I like the idea of magical minerals working their way up an ecosystem, I think I also prefer the visual of glowing enchanted krill colonies.

[Esaias]

On other news, as much as I like the idea of magical minerals working their way up an ecosystem, I think I also prefer the visual of glowing enchanted krill colonies.

Why not both?

[Lindel]

Why not both?

It would be redundant. Using the microorganism model, they can be found in or on plants, inside animals, in the water, in the soil, in the air, etc.

While the mineral idea is intriguing, the the microorganisms fill the same function and, in my opinion, have a bigger "cool" factor.

[Sir Jerric]

I really should be in bed already, but I'll get this out for people to play with. For scale (assuming Earth size), each grid square is about 260 miles (416 km) on a side. so the small east continent is about 2600 miles (4166 km) east-west and 1300 miles north-south.
 

 
This should represent a fairly accurate representation of how the biomes would work out. Please note again the Köppen climate classification for more surveying details than I have time to provide.

 

Flora in each zone tend to be exclusive to that zone.

The H regions are mountain ranges where altitude is sufficient to change the biome.

The northern dark green area (Af) and the blue green areas (Am) are the rainforests and jungles respectively.

The brighter green (Aw) is often Tropical forest.

Light brown (BW) is the desert, and dark brown (BS) the neighboring steppe. The desert between the mountains will not be travel-friendly (an 800+ mile crossing in hostile terrain).

Red (Cs), yellow (Cf), and orange (Cw) are temperate, bread-basket regions.

Blue (D) are humid, but seasonally extreme regions.

Purple (ET) is tundra.

Pink (EF) is year-round ice cap (over land, oceans are not colored yet).

 

I am uncertain about the orange in the middle being quite right, so that may be modified later, pending research and feedback (I like feedback).

 

Next step is detailing coastlines and adding inland seas and islands. If you want to play on islands, feel free to pick a location. I plan on a set of polar islands and a semi-isolated tropical archipelago in the northwest.

[Mailliw73]

My first choice of land is the southeast chunk of the northern jungle, with slight overlap into the western mountains and southern tropical forest, if that makes sense and is alright with everyone. This is for the people who herd large otters.

[Mckeedee123]

Well, since you asked (and I hate to ruin your beautiful map with my pathetic scribbles,) here are some suggestions for islands on the west coast. The size is probably way off here, so I probably wouldn't worry to much about the specific islands I've suggested, just the general trends, maybe?

 

 

-The ones with an arrow labeled "SB" pointing in their general direction are a range of subductive islands straddling the west coast of the continent. In the center-ish area of this chain is a large, compact group of these islands, which could potentially support an independent civilization.

-SC denotes a partially submerged continent. I suggested two of these: One is pretty close to the large subductive archipelago and the other is near the equator. These continents could be bastions for unique species that have long-since become extinct on the mainland.

-VC denotes an area with a particularly thin shelf seperating it from the mantle, making it prone to volcanic activity and, thus, a bunch of tiny islands. These would be mostly disparate with a handful of small chains which could be home to some proto-empires.

 

So yeah, I could see the western ocean as being Diaemus' equivalent of the Pacific. How about you guys?

 

EDIT: Oh! And by the way, we need a word for the little balls of light... Diaedites? Diaemites? Lumules? Verdates? These are bad names... actually, I sort of like Lumules for some reason. More zippers, Lumule!

Edited September 18, 2015 by Mckeedee123

[Young Bard]

I'll create a map for who is getting what chunks of the world (though I won't spend too much time or effort on it for now - there might be some version errors between our cartographer and me if he decides to make changes).

 

So far, only Mailliw has claimed a chunk (I'm not counting people who mentioned regions before the map was made. I would prefer something more specific). Just to clarify, Mailliw, was this the bit you were thinking of? It was the only place where jungle, mountain and forest collided that I could see. If you'd like to adjust, just say.

 

 

P.S. My underground caverns could fit anywhere, preferably in a D section, but I'll add it in last.

Edited September 18, 2015 by TheYoungBard

[Curious Anamaximder]

I'll create a map for who is getting what chunks of the world (though I won't spend too much time or effort on it for now - there might be some version errors between our cartographer and me if he decides to make changes).

 

So far, only Mailliw has claimed a chunk (I'm not counting people who mentioned regions before the map was made. I would prefer something more specific). Just to clarify, Mailliw, was this the bit you were thinking of? It was the only place where jungle, mountain and forest collided that I could see. If you'd like to adjust, just say.

 

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P.S. My underground caverns could fit anywhere, preferably in a D section, but I'll add it in last.

I would prefer the yellow section by the coast, unless anyone has claimed that already.

[Adamir]

Am I a bit late to break in and inflict my bad ideas on this world? I've got a few ideas for a magic system split into two methods, one using krill and the second tapping into the power of spirits who have ascended to a different state of existence through the amount of krill they were exposed to. Before I throw my bad ideas at you, could I ask whether krill/minerals are the only source of magic, and whether creatures exposed to enough krill could start generating magic of their own?

[Edgedancer]

As far as magic goes, I'm still in favor of the microorganisms that filter magical energy. I like the variability and uniqueness of it. The idea of a cloud of bioluminescent organisms swarming around magical hotspots, creating a general glow in the air, is pretty awesome. I also like the idea of magical tech being based on containing and cultivating these organisms.

I don't have a problem with the mineral idea, I just find the microorganisms more interesting.

In defense of the mineral idea, it would force higher adaptation and diversity according to the surronding, while glowing clouds of microorganism would be pretty much the same anywhere, so we'd actually have a reason for there being multiple sentient races instead of one. It would also force us to be a bit more original with races than just "various earth animals turned into sentient races" in a way that grows naturally from the setting. There's also the argument of it being more stream lined, cutting out the extra step between the magic source and the races that actually use the magic. (As for the glowing looking more awesome, if microorganisms can randomly glow because of magic, then why shouldn't mineral outgrows be able to do so as well?)

[Mckeedee123]

Am I a bit late to break in and inflict my bad ideas on this world? I've got a few ideas for a magic system split into two methods, one using krill and the second tapping into the power of spirits who have ascended to a different state of existence through the amount of krill they were exposed to. Before I throw my bad ideas at you, could I ask whether krill/minerals are the only source of magic, and whether creatures exposed to enough krill could start generating magic of their own?

 

Nope. You're not too late. Also, in the theoretical Lumule Model (shameless plug,) we haven't really figured out where the magic would come from yet, or what it actually is. I suppose there's still room for the unbearably soft "Spirit Model" to be what orders and defines how organisms use the Lumules' magic. Any comments on this? (I'm trying to get peoples' legitimate opinions on what's going on. The upvotes on these various posts can only tell us so much about where the majority is leaning.)

 

In defense of the mineral idea, it would force higher adaptation and diversity according to the surronding, while glowing clouds of microorganism would be pretty much the same anywhere, so we'd actually have a reason for there being multiple sentient races instead of one. It would also force us to be a bit more original with races than just "various earth animals turned into sentient races" in a way that grows naturally from the setting. There's also the argument of it being more stream lined, cutting out the extra step between the magic source and the races that actually use the magic. (As for the glowing looking more awesome, if microorganisms can randomly glow because of magic, then why shouldn't mineral outgrows be able to do so as well?)

 

Well, from the way I imagine it, the end result of the "Mineral Model" and the "Lumule Model" would be basically the same; Animals periodically eat something to supply them with a reserve of magic, a mechanism which allows us to do some fun worldbuilding with magibiology. Now, I must not be imagining it right, based on your assertion that it would affect the range of things we could do, but, well, Lumules are a cool image, one that hearkens back to some pretty good magic systems, and so I like them a lot as magical fuel. (What does everybody else think, by the way?)

 

How could we compromise on this? What do you think about different species of Lumules? Perhaps green and white ones could give Ground Sloths mindreading abilities, while red ones gave them laser vision. Perhaps the purples give humans illusatory powers, and the greens give them an extra reserve of strength and speed. How about the sapient species are born with the ability to use only one (or none) species of Lumule?

 

Would you prefer the sapient species to be a bit more... humanoid? I'd be lying if I said I didn't, I guess, since I have a hard time imagining people interacting intelligibly with raptors and spiders unless they had... faces. I think a lot of it depends on what the ultimate source of the magic is.

[Kobold King]

Would you prefer the sapient species to be a bit more... humanoid? I'd be lying if I said I didn't, I guess, since I have a hard time imagining people interacting intelligibly with raptors and spiders unless they had... faces. I think a lot of it depends on what the ultimate source of the magic is.

 

I'd be opposed to that. I think the coolest aspect of a multi-species world would be how humans interact with sapients that are wildly different from them. If we make everything strictly humanoid, we might as well just stick to the stock elves and dwarves in my opinion. Or not have other sapients at all.

[Edgedancer]

Nope. You're not too late. Also, in the theoretical Lumule Model (shameless plug,) we haven't really figured out where the magic would come from yet, or what it actually is. I suppose there's still room for the unbearably soft "Spirit Model" to be what orders and defines how organisms use the Lumules' magic. Any comments on this? (I'm trying to get peoples' legitimate opinions on what's going on. The upvotes on these various posts can only tell us so much about where the majority is leaning.)

 

 

Well, from the way I imagine it, the end result of the "Mineral Model" and the "Lumule Model" would be basically the same; Animals periodically eat something to supply them with a reserve of magic, a mechanism which allows us to do some fun worldbuilding with magibiology. Now, I must not be imagining it right, based on your assertion that it would affect the range of things we could do, but, well, Lumules are a cool image, one that hearkens back to some pretty good magic systems, and so I like them a lot as magical fuel. (What does everybody else think, by the way?)

 

How could we compromise on this? What do you think about different species of Lumules? Perhaps green and white ones could give Ground Sloths mindreading abilities, while red ones gave them laser vision. Perhaps the purples give humans illusatory powers, and the greens give them an extra reserve of strength and speed. How about the sapient species are born with the ability to use only one (or none) species of Lumule?

 

Would you prefer the sapient species to be a bit more... humanoid? I'd be lying if I said I didn't, I guess, since I have a hard time imagining people interacting intelligibly with raptors and spiders unless they had... faces. I think a lot of it depends on what the ultimate source of the magic is.

Oh, all of this definetly is still up to discussion.

 

What I mean by range isn't power but more something like this: How do you eat Lumules in a forest? You swallow the clouds. How do you do it in a mountain range? You swallow the clouds ect. There isn't really any reason for the species that live in those regions to be any more different than in our world.

Compare to: How do you get the magic mineral in a forest? There'd be multiple options (traces from plants, filtering through the ground or getting sediments from the water) but none of them is really mineral heavy, so a race from the forest would have to adapt to gathering from many options (or maybe the plants themselves have grown sentient). How do you do it in a mountain range? You'd have to dig mineral veins out of the stone itelf, so such a race would need great physical strenght, maybe ripping out entire parts of the mountain with their jaws ect. Bottom line, they'd have to be inherently different to gain the magic one adaptable the other physical dominating, yet not able to sustain themselves fully in another area as their method to gather all the maigc they need won't work there as well.

Sure reasons could be found as for why the races are different or we could do it just because but from my experience it makes for the stronger setting to interconect everything as much as possibe.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Edgedancer

[Mckeedee123]

I'd be opposed to that. I think the coolest aspect of a multi-species world would be how humans interact with sapients that are wildly different from them. If we make everything strictly humanoid, we might as well just stick to the stock elves and dwarves in my opinion. Or not have other sapients at all.

 

Well, not strictly humanoid. The two races I was thinking of way back, earlier in the thread (just to get it out here) were Autenots and Hekkites. Autenots are tall and lightly built, with protruding Tubercles and a colored streak running across their face. The magic would allow them to fly somehow, probably by sprouting spiritual "wings" from their shoulders for periods of time. Hekkites are albino, slightly larger than the average human, and are densely built. They have spiky, chitinous growths coming out of their forearm that allow them to slowly punch their way through solid rock. Both are more comfortable at lower temperatures, and as a general rule Autenots would stick to mountains and islands and Hekkites would be the "underground" race, but there'd be plenty of overlap and there would be certain places where people wouldn't really define themselves by race at all.

 

So those are the two races I was thinking about earlier. Idunno what everybody thinks about the whole thing, though.

[Kobold King]

Well, not strictly humanoid. The two races I was thinking of way back, earlier in the thread (just to get it out here) were Autenots and Hekkites. Autenots are tall and lightly built, with protruding Tubercles and a colored streak running across their face. The magic would allow them to fly somehow, probably by sprouting spiritual "wings" from their shoulders for periods of time. Hekkites are albino, slightly larger than the average human, and are densely built. They have spiky, chitinous growths coming out of their forearm that allow them to slowly punch their way through solid rock. Both are more comfortable at lower temperatures, and as a general rule Autenots would stick to mountains and islands and Hekkites would be the "underground" race, but there'd be plenty of overlap and there would be certain places where people wouldn't really define themselves by race at all.

 

So those are the two races I was thinking about earlier. Idunno what everybody thinks about the whole thing, though.

 

I like those, and I'd like to see them in action somewhere, but I like the idea of moving away from the standard human template for the major races.

[Edgedancer]

I like those, and I'd like to see them in action somewhere, but I like the idea of moving away from the standard human template for the major races.

I would tend to agree with this. So how about living stone monsters (that may or may not resemble dinosaurs) and plant people?

[Mckeedee123]

I like those, and I'd like to see them in action somewhere, but I like the idea of moving away from the standard human template for the major races.

 

I don't know... I think we can be original without having to be sort of, well, weird (but it's probably just me.) We need more people to express their opinions in this, though. The more democratic this thread is, the better this world is probably going to be.

 

On the subject of opinions, Kobold. Do you want to weigh in on the magic system discussion? Here's my thoughts:

 

The reason I like the "Spirit Model" is that it creates a fantastic template for stories, culture, and lore. Considering that most ancient cultures had unique beliefs and practices stemming from Animism or Classical Polytheism (not to mention that they paid a lot of attention to lineage and ancestry,) making those beliefs real (in a sort of vague way) would open up the door to some great material. For example, the spirit representing passion and fertility manifests itself primarily in the bloodline of the "Smith Family." The Smiths, as a result, are supernaturally beautiful and charismatic, regardless of the members' actual looks. Some Smiths even manifest minor shapeshifting powers, possessing the ability to alter their appearance slightly. Now, how the Smiths' matriarchal bloodline is treated depends on their location. On the Hushu Islands, the Smiths are considered higher beings, and non-Smiths are excluded from being tribal chiefs. In the huge metropolis of, um... Wilbin City(?) their abilities are a slight advantage, but they don't get special treatment. In the theocratic Terbud Empire, the Smiths are priests, receiving gifts and offering prayers in hope of pleasing their "god" along with other bloodlines, like the Millers, who represent fire and industry and manifest pyromancy sometimes. There are some locations in the world that are sacred to this spirit of passion and fertility, like the Ellex Grove on Hushu, where pink lights dance in the sky on certain nights. It's rumored that the white deer of the Ulay coast are blessed by the spirit (or spirits, or god, depending on which culture you're talking about,) and their horns, when crushed into a powder, are a powerful aphrodisiac. Storytellers often speak of Ellu Smith, the Smith who used his wits and strength to gather the most powerful married women of each bloodline and found the Terbud Empire, whose proper sacrifices and prayers supposedly keep the gods from destroying the world.

 

*Ahem* well, enough of that.

 

The "Lumule Model" (still can't tell whether people hate my made-up name or not) in its pure form is probably going to end up being "soft" as a tool in magibiology but "hard" for the worlds' inhabitants; we can basically do whatever we want as worldbuilders with it but organisms are going to be limited (which, unless I'm wrong, is good because it seems that most people in the room want a hard magic system.)

 

The "Mineral Model" is similar to the Lumule Model, functionally, but it sets limits on us as worldbuilders which forces us to think outside the box in order to create magibiology, which theoretically makes the world more unique.

 

Okay, wrapping up, I realized that I just tried to compare the three proposed magic systems but ended up writing a massive paragraph for mine and made the others footnotes.   Not my intention. Well, I'm pretty sure we all understand the last two pretty well anyway.

 

There's nothing wrong with combining them, either. It'd probably be good to take what's best from these three systems, which, as far as I can tell, are a capacity for complex lore and a being ingrained into the cultural development of human society, a cool image and "hardness," and forcing us to think about unique ways to do magibiology, respectively.

 

So all in all, we could get the benefits of each system (and here's what I want everyone to argue about) by taking the Lumule Model and adding different species of Lumule to it. Some colors live high in the air. Some live down in the ground. Some are attracted to specific sounds and patterns of light. For animal groups to access the Lumule species that let them do their type of magic, they'd need special adaptations. Also, who's to say that the power behind the Lumules isn't the spirits? What if the Smiths needed to periodically ingest Pink Lumules in order to use their abilities, and the Ellex grove isn't filled with these little balls of light?

 

So there. Please discuss. Again, the more people talk about this, the better.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Mckeedee123

[Edgedancer]

 

Also, who's to say that the power behind the Lumules isn't the spirits?

I'd actually say that working it the other way around would be preferabe. With "spirits," "gods" or whatever being creatures that somehow absorbed a unusually large amount/a special and now used up/extinct kind of mineral/Lemure. Open to vote wheter or not those creatures are still around, only some of them or only their potential desendants.

[Mckeedee123]

I'd actually say that working it the other way around would be preferabe. With "spirits," "gods" or whatever being creatures that somehow absorbed a unusually large amount/a special and now used up/extinct kind of mineral/Lemure. Open to vote wheter or not those creatures are still around, only some of them or only their potential desendants.

 

I really like that. It keeps the magic system consistent.

[Edgedancer]

I really like that. It keeps the magic system consistent.

Why thank you. I also had another idea that instead of all of the godsource being used up already it may be something that replenishes over time (and may or may not have a guardian) so every [insert span of time here] there is a certain amount of "divine" energy to go around which can either create one higher deity or be split up to create multiple lesser ones.

[Curious Anamaximder]

I'd actually say that working it the other way around would be preferabe. With "spirits," "gods" or whatever being creatures that somehow absorbed a unusually large amount/a special and now used up/extinct kind of mineral/Lemure. Open to vote wheter or not those creatures are still around, only some of them or only their potential desendants.

I'd actually say that working it the other way around would be preferabe. With "spirits," "gods" or whatever being creatures that somehow absorbed a unusually large amount/a special and now used up/extinct kind of mineral/Lemure. Open to vote wheter or not those creatures are still around, only some of them or only their potential desendants.

Great idea! I love it!

[Seonid]

I'd actually say that working it the other way around would be preferabe. With "spirits," "gods" or whatever being creatures that somehow absorbed a unusually large amount/a special and now used up/extinct kind of mineral/Lemure. Open to vote wheter or not those creatures are still around, only some of them or only their potential desendants.

 

Why thank you. I also had another idea that instead of all of the godsource being used up already it may be something that replenishes over time (and may or may not have a guardian) so every [insert span of time here] there is a certain amount of "divine" energy to go around which can either create one higher deity or be split up to create multiple lesser ones.

 

 

I was actually thinking of something like this in response to Adamir's suggestion about ascended spirits having been infused with enough of this magic source (wherever we decide it comes from). That gives a lot of room for Mek's animistic magic system, at least among some societies. I can imagine some races pushing for something like this to happen with their leaders, and other races avoiding super-concentrations of magic like the plague, based on differing ideologies.

 

Also, to respond to the comment about lack of variety in the "magikrill/Lumules/whatever we call them," the most recent posted version is a lot more expansive than "just breath in the cloud." There are airborne, waterborne, and even soil-borne organisms that provide a wide variety of mechanisms and pathways to send the power through the lifeweb.

 

If you're really interested in minerals, of course, there is always the question of how the organisms generate their power. In fact, this might be an interesting possibility - having the airborne organisms metabolize trace gasses to generate their "magic," and the waterborne and underground ones metabolize various important minerals. I could just see the cave-dwellers harvesting the organisms that feast on "magic rocks," and revering the rock formations instead of the organisms. In fact, it could be an area of magical research, to try and figure out how to generate the magical energy directly from the source instead of needing the intermediary. And it could even be culturally contentious, with one side trying to preserve the ancient balance between sapient and symbiote, and the other trying to make technological magic out of the primal source.

 

Personally, I like the idea of symbiotic magic with microorganisms, and hope that it survives the whittling down process of this democratic effort. When I have time, I'll post a quick vignette that shows part of my vision, using the proposed raptor race as an example.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Seonid

[Mckeedee123]

Also, to respond to the comment about lack of variety in the "magikrill/Lumules/whatever we call them," the most recent posted version is a lot more expansive than "just breath in the cloud." There are airborne, waterborne, and even soil-borne organisms that provide a wide variety of mechanisms and pathways to send the power through the lifeweb.

 

Huh. When someone else types it, it makes the word look weird to me again... Lumuels? Lumites? Lumions? Lumatites? Lumadiaems? Lumenites? Lucidites?

 

EDIT: ...Lumuoles?

Edited September 18, 2015 by Mckeedee123

[Seonid]

I like Lumatites or Lumanites. Even more, though, I like them having different names in different cultures and languages. We have 3 major races (humans, raptors, and arachnids - although it's not fully settled yet). Each of these is going to have multiple culture groups, with empires, kingdoms, tries, and so on. Each is going to have multiple, maybe many languages. Each is going to approach their magic in a different way. That's my take, at least.

[Sera]

I really should be in bed already, but I'll get this out for people to play with. For scale (assuming Earth size), each grid square is about 260 miles (416 km) on a side. so the small east continent is about 2600 miles (4166 km) east-west and 1300 miles north-south.

 

 

This should represent a fairly accurate representation of how the biomes would work out. Please note again the Köppen climate classification for more surveying details than I have time to provide.

 

Flora in each zone tend to be exclusive to that zone.

The H regions are mountain ranges where altitude is sufficient to change the biome.

The northern dark green area (Af) and the blue green areas (Am) are the rainforests and jungles respectively.

The brighter green (Aw) is often Tropical forest.

Light brown (BW) is the desert, and dark brown (BS) the neighboring steppe. The desert between the mountains will not be travel-friendly (an 800+ mile crossing in hostile terrain).

Red (Cs), yellow (Cf), and orange (Cw) are temperate, bread-basket regions.

Blue (D) are humid, but seasonally extreme regions.

Purple (ET) is tundra.

Pink (EF) is year-round ice cap (over land, oceans are not colored yet).

 

I am uncertain about the orange in the middle being quite right, so that may be modified later, pending research and feedback (I like feedback).

 

Next step is detailing coastlines and adding inland seas and islands. If you want to play on islands, feel free to pick a location. I plan on a set of polar islands and a semi-isolated tropical archipelago in the northwest.

 

My random input on those biomes: Those temperate forests don't seem right unless your planet axis tilt is upside down.

 

We owe our seasons to Earth's axial tilt. It determines not only seasons, but biomes distribution by interfering with the temperatures, which are linked to the sunlight falloff on the planet's surface. It's true it's hot at the Equator, but the temperature at 20º to the north of the Equator isn't the same of the temperature 20º to south.

 

If I remember it right, tilted planets kinda "wobble" like top toys. Earth receives a more constant sunlight at South than North. The Tropic of Capricorn is over a region of constant temperature, while Cancer sees an extreme variation. It's possible to find tropical biomes at South where you'd find temperate ones if you moved the same distance north.

 

 

You planet would have tropical forests where your temperate forests are, or, to keep the mostly the same biomes, it'd either have higher altitudes where those forests are or be tilted the other way around, if it's not the rest of your universe upside down.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Sera