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Adolin WoB from signed book


WeiryWriter

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damnation. Didn't Navani said that Dalinar and his wife were a perfect match for each other (or was it the other way around)? If so, and given the Blackthorn's reputation, I could see his wife being some kind of equivalent of a rebellious warrior princess, teaching her eldest to kick butt and take names left and right.

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Oooh, more information on Shshsh!! Is that why he carries her necklace? If she were more moral than the Blackthorne (assuming the Blackthorne only ever cared about killing in those days) would she have been a calming influence on him? Is that why he was such a heavy drinker before Gavilar's death? I NEED MORE ABOUT SHSHSH!!

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Man this makes me so excited to learn about her. It's crazy we will get to know the full picture in the next book. I mean, I was always interested to know what made Dalinar do this and what she was like, but it wasn't on the forefront of my mind. Now it is.

I imagine that with Brandon and Peter's hints about Dalinar's earlier personality... Dalinar used to not be a good person at all. It seems like she was the better person, at least up to Gavilar's death.

Very interesting. SA3 plz now.

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Oh this is AMAZING. Thanks Weiry for putting this up! You made my day :D So some people do get a decent answer out of this question... I've got to work on mine  :)

 

I love it and it brilliantly fits within most of my theory making stipulating Adolin was the one who was close to his mother.. So sweet. Everyone always assumed Shshshsh's death was hard on Renarin because he is the broken (and the youngest) one, but my inner vibe tells me it was the contrary. Each time Adolin thinks about his mother, there is always this melancholy we simply do not get when Renarin does the same. 

 

And it does tell us Adolin morality sense does not come from Dalinar, in fact I suspect it has been tainted by Dalinar obsession about honor. It also gears in favor of Adolin resembling his mother and not his father as it is currently assumed. I suspect the reason he tends to act so much as a younger Dalinar is by mimicking a man he admires, but it alternatively steers him away from his true self. 

 

Now, what more can we make of it? A few thoughts...

 

What is Adolin's sense of morality? Adolin does what is morally right as opposed to what is legally right or even honorable. Molesting a prostitute was wrong on a human side, which is exactly why I suspect he saved her: not because Dalinar taught him to behave well, but because his inner sense of morality told him it was wrong. Sending Kaladin in prison was morally wrong even if legally right, so Adolin felt he needed to act.

 

In other words, Adolin was raised to care for others, to look out for them, to take care of them and, more importantly, to not stay idle in the face of moral injustice. 

 

As for the necklace, one of my suspicions is it was given to him by his mother, on her death bed, so he could always have a piece of her with him and to help him to never forget.

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Oooooh! Many thanks to isolde-and-monsters. This makes it more interesting, considering his mother would have been married to the Blackthorn, and yet they apparently both came to love each other. (I see now others have had similar thoughts above.) I'd love to learn more.

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CURSE YOU, BRANDON!!!! WHY YOU LEAVE US HANGING ON SUCH LITTLE INFORMATION?!?!

 

...Ahem.

 

 

Oh this is AMAZING. Thanks Weiry for putting this up! You made my day :D So some people do get a decent answer out of this question... I've got to work on mine  :)

 

I love it and it brilliantly fits within most of my theory making stipulating Adolin was the one who was close to his mother.. So sweet. Everyone always assumed Shshshsh's death was hard on Renarin because he is the broken (and the youngest) one, but my inner vibe tells me it was the contrary. Each time Adolin thinks about his mother, there is always this melancholy we simply do not get when Renarin does the same. 

 

And it does tell us Adolin morality sense does not come from Dalinar, in fact I suspect it has been tainted by Dalinar obsession about honor. It also gears in favor of Adolin resembling his mother and not his father as it is currently assumed. I suspect the reason he tends to act so much as a younger Dalinar is by mimicking a man he admires, but it alternatively steers him away from his true self. 

 

Now, what more can we make of it? A few thoughts...

 

What is Adolin's sense of morality? Adolin does what is morally right as opposed to what is legally right or even honorable. Molesting a prostitute was wrong on a human side, which is exactly why I suspect he saved her: not because Dalinar taught him to behave well, but because his inner sense of morality told him it was wrong. Sending Kaladin in prison was morally wrong even if legally right, so Adolin felt he needed to act.

 

In other words, Adolin was raised to care for others, to look out for them, to take care of them and, more importantly, to not stay idle in the face of moral injustice. 

 

As for the necklace, one of my suspicions is it was given to him by his mother, on her death bed, so he could always have a piece of her with him and to help him to never forget.

Hmmm. That would feel kinda cliche, but meh. Ya' gotta have some cliche's in books.

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CURSE YOU, BRANDON!!!! WHY YOU LEAVE US HANGING ON SUCH LITTLE INFORMATION?!?!

 

...Ahem.

 

 

Hmmm. That would feel kinda cliche, but meh. Ya' gotta have some cliche's in books.

 

Really? I don't recall anything similar in recent years... Mothers tend to be nonexistent in most fantasy books. I don't feel we often read about young men who are openly found of their mother.

 

It is very endearing Adolin's mother is seen to have had such a positive influence on him and it makes her death all the more sad. I do not think this is cliche.... quite the opposite. I think Adolin's entire story arc, so far, has been very refreshing and not cliche at all.

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This is no information at all. Almost everyone's mother instills in them an early sense of morality, along with everything else. (What that morality is might change from mother to mother...Any "Sons of Anarchy" fans out there?)

I like Argent's reference to a "rebellious warrior princess." Vivenna anyone?

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This is no information at all. Almost everyone's mother instills in them an early sense of morality, along with everything else. (What that morality is might change from mother to mother...Any "Sons of Anarchy" fans out there?)

I like Argent's reference to a "rebellious warrior princess." Vivenna anyone?

 

It may not be "plot related" or "Cosmere related" information, but it is "character related" one, the kind we so rarely get. I would personally take one of these WoB over 95% of the ones we typically get. I guess it depends where your interests lay.

 

As for this specific WoB, those of us who had spent time to analyze Adolin in depth have theorized his sense of morality widely differs than Dalinar. However, since he hero worships his father so much, he had tried for years to mimic his father up to the point where most readers made little difference between both character. Until WoR. In WoR, we progressively see Adolin apply his own morality and progressively evolve into who is truly is. The Adolin who can't let Sadeas walk away may not be the Adolin Dalinar tried to raise, but it is who Adolin is, deep down.

 

This WoB does push in the right direction in confirming Adolin's sense of morality comes from his mother... Brandon also said early, which imply he has changed at some point, probably on the Shattered Plains, under Dalinar's strong influence, but he went back to it in WoR.

 

Therefore, if I push the idea even further, Adolin does not lose the Thrill because he is obeying Dalinar as most people have suspected, but because he is going back to himself (morality wise), the boy he was before mother died.

 

So see, it does tell us many things which are all related to Adolin's character and to his mother. It is a very interesting one.

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It is quite an obvius piece of information. 

We know Adolin is a better examplo of morality than lots/most of Alethi brightlords. But we also know Dalinar, as the Blackthorn, wasn´t much of an example. 

How old is Adolin? Surely he was sufficiently grown up to have his own morality when his father started to read The Way of Kings and became a model of honor.

So, I don´t see anything surprising in this.

 

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It is quite an obvius piece of information. 

 

We know Adolin is a better examplo of morality than lots/most of Alethi brightlords. But we also know Dalinar, as the Blackthorn, wasn´t much of an example. 

 

How old is Adolin? Surely he was sufficiently grown up to have his own morality when his father started to read The Way of Kings and became a model of honor.

 

So, I don´t see anything surprising in this.

 

 

 

 

Adolin is around 23 years old and was about 16-17 when his father started reading the Way of Kings. He was not a child, but still pretty young. He also lost his mother at the beginning of his teenager years, so his greater influence while he grew into a man was his father. We start to forge our character in our teen years and often, we forget who we were as children only to remember as adults.

 

It's interesting to have confirmation on something I had suspected for a while. It is not necessarily surprising, but it highlights how different the Adolin at the end of WoR is different than the Adolin at the beginning of WoK. Adolin early on is a younger version of Dalinar, Adolin end of WoR went back to his former self.... in other words, he remembered. Oh I love the pun I've just made  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:

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Adolin is around 23 years old and was about 16-17 when his father started reading the Way of Kings. He was not a child, but still pretty young.

I think in TWoK Dalinar says that he didn't start reading The Way of Kings until a while after Gavilar was killed. Specifically, he starts seeing visions a few months after he first started reading the book, and it doesn't seem like he has seen that many visions, so maybe 4 years or less of influence on Dalinar. Remember, that in the beginning, Dalinar is like the other Highprinces in their fight against the Parshendi. So most of Adolin's sense of morality would come from his mother's side.

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You are right, Maxal. This WoB does confirm the following:

 

  1. Adolin had a mother.
  2. Adolin had an "early sense of morality."
  3. "Much" of that morality "was instilled" by his mother.

 

Still unknown is the following:

 

  1. What that "early sense of morality" was.
  2. How "much" of it came from his mother.
  3. How this "early sense of morality" "was instilled." (Here I'm noting Brandon's use of passive voice - he could have stated "Adolin's mother instilled in him...") Thus, we don't know whether Adolin's mother actively taught him morality or taught him by her example.
  4. How "early" was that sense instilled? Was Adolin 2 or 3, 7-8? Was this "early sense" simply saying "No - don't cross the street without holding my hand?" Or was it "Kholin good, Sadeas bad"?

 

I know I'm being peevish about this WoB. Not your or any poster's fault. I've just seen SO MANY WoBs misread, misinterpreted, misstated, misunderstood, mis-relied on for things they don't say, etc. I'm frustrated by people interpreting Brandon's deliberately evasive comments like clearly-written guidance. IMO Brandon rarely says what he's being quoted as saying and RAFOs are almost unnecessary to him.

 

As to you and others enjoying character as much as plot or background, point taken. It's a good reminder of the diverse interests represented on this board. Personally, I don't see how one can interpret character without the backdrop of plot, etc., but each to their own.

Edited by Confused
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I think in TWoK Dalinar says that he didn't start reading The Way of Kings until a while after Gavilar was killed. Specifically, he starts seeing visions a few months after he first started reading the book, and it doesn't seem like he has seen that many visions, so maybe 4 years or less of influence on Dalinar. Remember, that in the beginning, Dalinar is like the other Highprinces in their fight against the Parshendi. So most of Adolin's sense of morality would come from his mother's side.

 

Adolin was 13 years old (approx.) when his mother died. Also, for most of his childhood, his father has been busy warring to unite Alethkar. Little Adolin probably did not see much of his father until he was a teenager which coincided with his mother's death. 

 

Any other source of influence Adolin received during his teenage years and his young adult years come from his father, so it is not 4 years, for 10 years, with a strong focus on the last 6. As for the Shattered Plains, Dalinar may have fought like the others, but he still imposed his codes. Adolin has been going through it since his mid-late teen years, so a lot more than 4 years. 

 

The WoB also specify his "early" sense of morality. The later one being obviously the "Daliar influence" which offset his mother's teachings as he was too young when she died.

 

 

You are right, Maxal. This WoB does confirm the following:

 

  1. Adolin had a mother.
  2. Adolin had an "early sense of morality."
  3. "Much" of that morality "was instilled" by his mother

 

I sincerely do not know if you are serious about point number 1 or if you are trying to mock me....  :unsure:

 

The "early" sense of morality implies there is a "later" one, which implies a change, probably due to Dalinar's influence.

 

 

  1. What that "early sense of morality" was.
  2. How "much" of it came from his mother.
  3. How this "early sense of morality" "was instilled." (Here I'm noting Brandon's use of passive voice - he could have stated "Adolin's mother instilled in him...") Thus, we don't know whether Adolin's mother actively taught him morality or taught him by her example.
  4. How "early" was that sense instilled? Was Adolin 2 or 3, 7-8? Was this "early sense" simply saying "No - don't cross the street without holding my hand?" Or was it "Kholin good, Sadeas bad"?

 

I know I'm being peevish about this WoB. Not your or any poster's fault. I've just seen SO MANY WoBs misread, misinterpreted, misstated, misunderstood, mis-relied on for things they don't say, etc. I'm frustrated by people interpreting Brandon's deliberately evasive comments like clearly-written guidance. IMO Brandon rarely says what he's being quoted as saying and RAFOs are almost unnecessary to him.

 

As to you and others enjoying character as much as plot or background, point taken. It's a good reminder of the diverse interests represented on this board. Personally, I don't see how one can interpret character without the backdrop of plot, etc., but each to their own.

 

We can offer a few guesses... Adolin's morality sense is to not let wrongs be condone if he is capable to help. Surely his mother taught him he is as guilty the bullies to stand by and do nothing. He's a very pro-active kinda of person and we see him progressively get more and more into the right/wrong zone, which tends to go against Dalinar's code of honor.

 

As for how old, from the time he was a baby to the time she died. It is the probable guess.

 

We can never be truly sure what WoB means, but they give us meat to chew on and clues to piece things out. When it comes to character reading, this one is a good one, much better than most we have gotten. It allows us to speculate and to make cohesive theories. As for interpreting characters, plot is not needed. In fact plot does not serve much, but backstory do and small clues as to their behavior and thinking pattern. This WoB harmonized very well with most of my Adolin theorizing which confirms I may be on the right track.

 

However, you could of course be right and I may misinterpret it, but I sincerely doubt it. It fits too well with the rest. When it comes to character talk, everything is evasive, but it makes a beautiful tapestry when you put it together: it has a logic that defines logic which is why I am fascinated by it. To think I used to believe social sciences were lesser... What a fool I was. 

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A side note that may support the Warrior Princess idea: Adolin was a young dueling prodigy and, IIRC, received his Blade from his mother's family(?) at a very young age. Considering Dalinar has been at war and doesn't seem to have been around his children much when they were young, maybe Shshshsh is the one who helped teach or inspire a love of fighting in Adolin.

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A side note that may support the Warrior Princess idea: Adolin was a young dueling prodigy and, IIRC, received his Blade from his mother's family(?) at a very young age. Considering Dalinar has been at war and doesn't seem to have been around his children much when they were young, maybe Shshshsh is the one who helped teach or inspire a love of fighting in Adolin.

Correction: he got his Plate as a gift. His blade was won in a duel nobody expected him to win.

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I would never mock you, Maxal, and I wasn't. But I AM mocking a general tendency to read too much into WoBs. That first item highlights how little actual "fact" there is in that WoB. One of those facts is that Adolin had a mother. Yes, we already knew that. But this statement further confirms it. That and the other two items I mentioned are the only "facts" that can legitimately be gleaned from this statement.

 

In the absence of facts, you are free to speculate whatever you like (as we all do). Having read your speculation, I don't think it's affected one whit by the WoB, either as confirmation or denial. That's my only point - the paucity of evidence contained in that specific WoB and the general tendency to read too much into them.

Edited by Confused
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damnation. Didn't Navani said that Dalinar and his wife were a perfect match for each other (or was it the other way around)? If so, and given the Blackthorn's reputation, I could see his wife being some kind of equivalent of a rebellious warrior princess, teaching her eldest to kick butt and take names left and right.

 

Confirmed: Dalinar's wife was named Xena :)

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I would never mock you, Maxal, and I wasn't. But I AM mocking a general tendency to read too much into WoBs. That first item highlights how little actual "fact" there is in that WoB. One of those facts is that Adolin had a mother. Yes, we already knew that. But this statement further confirms it. That and the other two items I mentioned are the only "facts" that can legitimately be gleaned from this statement.

 

In the absence of facts, you are free to speculate whatever you like (as we all do). Having read your speculation, I don't think it's affected one whit by the WoB, either as confirmation or denial. That's my only point - the paucity of evidence contained in that specific WoB and the general tendency to read too much into them.

 

In all honesty, you actually made me laugh with your point number 1. I thought: "DUH", when I read it. Though, if you want, I can launch the theory Adolin was created out of divine intervention and does not technically have a mother...

 

As far as character readings go, we often have to work with speculation based on character consistency and human behavior patterns which may or may not be accurate. This WoB tells some of what I have been babbling for over a year is actually right. Of course, I would wish for something more substantial, but sincerely, there are so little character related WoB, I work with what I get. We are probably not getting much when it comes to Adolin's backstory and I do feel key to understanding people is to find out how they were as children. In that optic, this WoB was a good one even if it did not contain much facts.

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