Who is your LEAST favorite character in the Cosmere?

[+Slowswift]

Apparently I'm in the minority? I loved Shallan and skipped all of Dalinar and Kaladin's chapters when I first read WoK. But that was then, and I've repented of my ways... though I still want to smack Kaladin. Often. Very often. 

[Mailliw73]

Apparently I'm in the minority? I loved Shallan and skipped all of Dalinar and Kaladin's chapters when I first read WoK. But that was then, and I've repented of my ways... though I still want to smack Kaladin. Often. Very often. 

I'm the opposite. I get close to skipping Shallan chapters(but never skip in Sanderson's novels), but love Kaladin and Dalinar both.

[+Slowswift]

I'm the opposite. I get close to skipping Shallan chapters(but never skip in Sanderson's novels), but love Kaladin and Dalinar both.

 

Like I said. Minority.

[Shadowspren]

I haven't WoA in a while so I completely forgot about Zane, but now that I think about it I really don't like him, for personal reasons obviously. I've recently had trouble with another guy trying to get between me and my girlfriend, which was the most infuriating thing I've ever dealt with (besides the moment when Kal gets arrested in WoR). Elend may have been a lousy king at first, but he does end up being the coolest guy ever and I'm really happy that Vin chose him and killed Zane... Elend wasn't a Mistborn, he couldn't fully relate to Vin like Zane could, but at least he was trying. and it irked me to see him trying to tear them apart; and the worst part is that Elend couldn't do anything about it, he just had to trust her to make the right choice... The fact that they were brothers didn't help at all...

 

Tying for first place are also Shallan and Elhokar:

Adolin really adores Shallan, but she can never seem to just simply return the affection. Everything she does in the relationship is too calculated and makes it seem like she is just toying with him the whole time. Plus, when he tries to tell her about how he loves her and will do everything he can to help protect her, she just pushes him away and basically tells him "I don't need you, I can look after myself" It's ok to be independant, but he is really the only one working on their relationship...

 

Elhokar is just a whiny brat... he is in a really good position to step up, be a strong leader and unify the kingdom more fully, but intead he just whines about everything, questions everything everyone else does, but never makes executve decisions himself. 

[maxal]

I haven't WoA in a while so I completely forgot about Zane, but now that I think about it I really don't like him, for personal reasons obviously. I've recently had trouble with another guy trying to get between me and my girlfriend, which was the most infuriating thing I've ever dealt with (besides the moment when Kal gets arrested in WoR). Elend may have been a lousy king at first, but he does end up being the coolest guy ever and I'm really happy that Vin chose him and killed Zane... Elend wasn't a Mistborn, he couldn't fully relate to Vin like Zane could, but at least he was trying. and it irked me to see him trying to tear them apart; and the worst part is that Elend couldn't do anything about it, he just had to trust her to make the right choice... The fact that they were brothers didn't help at all...

 

Tying for first place are also Shallan and Elhokar:

Adolin really adores Shallan, but she can never seem to just simply return the affection. Everything she does in the relationship is too calculated and makes it seem like she is just toying with him the whole time. Plus, when he tries to tell her about how he loves her and will do everything he can to help protect her, she just pushes him away and basically tells him "I don't need you, I can look after myself" It's ok to be independant, but he is really the only one working on their relationship...

 

Elhokar is just a whiny brat... he is in a really good position to step up, be a strong leader and unify the kingdom more fully, but intead he just whines about everything, questions everything everyone else does, but never makes executve decisions himself. 

 

I can't believe I forgot Elhokar       I do not like Elhokar for pretty much the same reasons as you.

 

As for Shallan, to her defense, she is stranded in the middle of upper class lighteyes without having any asset of her own besides this shaky betrothal to a man everyone keeps telling her is a flirt. Adolin is her only chance at saving her family, so yes, she acts in a calculating manner with him and she is desperate to keep his attention. I think she does not realize how love struck he is. As for her reaction towards his protective instinct, yes it was uncalled for. Poor Adolin did not deserve that, he was being a sweety, but his attitude triggered her protection mechanism. I think she still needs to learn how to let others take care of her as no one ever did.

[Shadowspren]

I can't believe I forgot Elhokar       I do not like Elhokar for pretty much the same reasons as you.

 

As for Shallan, to her defense, she is stranded in the middle of upper class lighteyes without having any asset of her own besides this shaky betrothal to a man everyone keeps telling her is a flirt. Adolin is her only chance at saving her family, so yes, she acts in a calculating manner with him and she is desperate to keep his attention. I think she does not realize how love struck he is. 

I see what you're saying, she is pretty desperate. And I guess that is the annoying part, that she is so smart in certain areas but overthinks everything to the point where she can't accept that just simply loves her... guess she didn't expect it to actually work out 

[maxal]

I see what you're saying, she is pretty desperate. And I guess that is the annoying part, that she is so smart in certain areas but overthinks everything to the point where she can't accept that just simply loves her... guess she didn't expect it to actually work out 

 

Nobody ever loved her, so why would the most eligible bachelor in Alethkar, a handsome man famous for having dated every single available young sophisticated women love her, the small freckled red haired little duck who can't keep her mouth shut? She could not have known Adolin's reputation is a wet scam...

[kaellok]

I see what you're saying, she is pretty desperate. And I guess that is the annoying part, that she is so smart in certain areas but overthinks everything to the point where she can't accept that just simply loves her... guess she didn't expect it to actually work out

It's taken me over a decade of having good, caring friends to even begin to understand that they actually like me and it's not just an act to make me react in a way that they want. I still struggle with that at times, because it's the exact opposite of what I grew up with. So i spend a significant amount of time deciding how I should react to them and others when they're just nice because I never learned those lessons growing up.

And Shallan had a childhood similar, but worse, than my own. Frustrating or not, she's written incredibly realistically, especially in WoR ☺

[Sand Master]

I think she still needs to learn how to let others take care of her as no one ever did.

 

Have you read WoR? The reason she reacted so fiercely to Adolin is because he said he'd protect her, which is exactly what her father did to her. He completely sheltered her from anything and everything, and she became simply something to sit there and look pretty. She wasn't a person, she was a display. That's what she felt was happening again when Adolin said he'd protect her, and that's why she reacted in such a negative way.

 

Additionally, a lot of people have said that they dislike Kaladin and the Shallan/Kaladin pairing (Shalladin?) simply because it's an "overused trope" or something similar to that. I understand that to an extent, but I feel like it's a result of our culture that people feel like this, and at the very least I'd like to put my two cents in. What I mean when I say it's a result of our culture is that people have started to immediately revile anything that's not completely new and original. While I understand that repetition and lack of change can make things stale and boring, I don't think that the two necessarily go hand in hand. Yes, Kaladin's character has been done before, and yes, he and Shallan becoming a couple seems a bit stereotypical, but honestly? I love every bit of it. Just because it's been done before doesn't mean it can't be done again and still be engaging and intriguing. The end result isn't what's important, it's the path they take to get there. Journey before destination. And I've never seen a journey (in the details, not the larger concept) quite like Kaladin's. But I'm done ranting, I just wanted to hopefully bring up the possibility to some people that simply because it's already been done, they don't have to hate it.

 

 

Alright, back to the real topic of this forum:

 

My least favorite character in the cosmere? Probably Adolin. He doesn't seem to care much about anything but dueling and keeping his House (and by extension, the kingdom) afloat. Granted, that second one is a pretty big plus, but his character still kind of falls flat to me. He's not driven by an overwhelming need to save it, like Dalinar is, and he doesn't have the same motivation for it that Dalinar does either. He's not particularly funny, smart, passionate, or serious for the most part. He just is. I don't mind the fact that he duels, and I don't mind that he is trying to help his father. I liked the character development that took place when he realized he should be trusting Dalinar, but I want to know more about him as a person. What his interests are, and what he likes to do. His childhood, things like that. Even Renarin has more than him in that aspect. I don't dislike Adolin as a person, I just feel like his character falls flat, and that's why he's my least favorite. Sorry for the long post.

[DreamEternal]

Characters I disliked? Well, I am not really a hateful person, so most of this characters are ones I find interesting and even like but did things I deeply disagree with.

Jasnah: She could have soulcast the thugs' weapons into fire, could have created a wall in front of then, could have simply not walked into a dark alleyway covered in glowing gemstones... But she killed them all to teach Shallan a lesson.

Vin and Kelsier: They are cool, but I am not really into bloodthirsty protagonists.

Vasher: caused many, many, unnecessary deaths, some by his own hand, because he didn't like the idea of revealing he was a god and them disappearing in the night. Like he did in the end.

Nightblood: do you want to destroy some evil today? No.

Lift: she is extremely interesting. Except when she tries to be funny.

Lopen: Please, stop bringing your cousins into Bridge Four, Dalinar wanted you as bodyguards because he feared spies. Also, try to not overuse your jokes gancho.

Hoid: humor isn't one of Brandon's strenghts, that is for sure.

Shallan: see above. Also, hating Amaram because he killed your brother in a battlefield, where he had much more justification than Jasnah had for killing those thugs? At least Amaram does deserve to be looked down upon, so all is forgiven.

Now the one and only character I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE

Stick. May he forever BURN!

Edited August 7, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[maxal]

 

Have you read WoR? The reason she reacted so fiercely to Adolin is because he said he'd protect her, which is exactly what her father did to her. He completely sheltered her from anything and everything, and she became simply something to sit there and look pretty. She wasn't a person, she was a display. That's what she felt was happening again when Adolin said he'd protect her, and that's why she reacted in such a negative way.

 

 

That's not the best way to start a conversation... You may want to re-think your opening sentences  I know exactly why Shallan reacted so fiercely to Adolin's wordings but she had it all wrong. Adolin was expressing a desire to care for her, to protect her from dangers: he never implied he wanted to lock her up in a golden tower.  He was being very loving, but all she retained was the part where he insisted he would see her safe. She could not understand one could want to care and protect without jailing the person. Her father used that argument with her, but not because he cared, because he wanted to control her. So yes, Shallan needs to learn to let people care for her (she has it all mixed up in her head) because this is exactly what Adolin was trying to do: care for her, which indeed does pass by protecting her from falling down a chasm and getting half eaten by a chasmfiend. 

 

 

Additionally, a lot of people have said that they dislike Kaladin and the Shallan/Kaladin pairing (Shalladin?) simply because it's an "overused trope" or something similar to that. I understand that to an extent, but I feel like it's a result of our culture that people feel like this, and at the very least I'd like to put my two cents in. What I mean when I say it's a result of our culture is that people have started to immediately revile anything that's not completely new and original. While I understand that repetition and lack of change can make things stale and boring, I don't think that the two necessarily go hand in hand. Yes, Kaladin's character has been done before, and yes, he and Shallan becoming a couple seems a bit stereotypical, but honestly? I love every bit of it. Just because it's been done before doesn't mean it can't be done again and still be engaging and intriguing. The end result isn't what's important, it's the path they take to get there. Journey before destination. And I've never seen a journey (in the details, not the larger concept) quite like Kaladin's. But I'm done ranting, I just wanted to hopefully bring up the possibility to some people that simply because it's already been done, they don't have to hate it.

 

This is not just an over-used trope, it is the trope that was used in nearly all pairings offered by the entertainment industry (series, movies, books) for the past decades or so. It has gotten to a point where people expect relationships to start this was. This is why some people are annoyed by it: it is because all they have read/watch since their childhood was this trope and nothing else. To me, reading Kaladin/Shallan exchange was like walking through a bad predictable girl's movie. In comparison, the exchange between Shallan and Adolin was so refreshing, the complicity they develop within a few pages was so endearing I could not help wanting them to succeed.

 

However, there are plenty of other reasons why people dislike the Kaladin/Shallan pairing other than tropes. I invite you to seek out the subjects where it was discussed in the Stormlight Archive section, but fear not. The vast majority of the 17th Shard root for the Kaladin/Shallan union. The Adolin/Shallan has very little supporters, mainly, I suspect, because Kaladin is the main protagonist which makes more people root for him, independently of anything else.

 

 

 

My least favorite character in the cosmere? Probably Adolin. He doesn't seem to care much about anything but dueling and keeping his House (and by extension, the kingdom) afloat. Granted, that second one is a pretty big plus, but his character still kind of falls flat to me. He's not driven by an overwhelming need to save it, like Dalinar is, and he doesn't have the same motivation for it that Dalinar does either. He's not particularly funny, smart, passionate, or serious for the most part. He just is. I don't mind the fact that he duels, and I don't mind that he is trying to help his father. I liked the character development that took place when he realized he should be trusting Dalinar, but I want to know more about him as a person. What his interests are, and what he likes to do. His childhood, things like that. Even Renarin has more than him in that aspect. I don't dislike Adolin as a person, I just feel like his character falls flat, and that's why he's my least favorite. Sorry for the long post.

 

OK. Probably the least constructive criticism of Adolin I have read and the farther away from the book. I could send you back your own opening sentences: Have you read WoR? Seriously, you need to spend more time with Adolin's chapters if you think he is a non-caring, dumb, non-passionate person but he is the exact opposite of these things. I invite you again to consult the Stormlight Archive section and seek out the numerous posts where he was discussed as a character which should help you draft a better opinion of him. I do not mean to change him into your favorite, we do not control these things, but you seem to be so far-off in your analysis of him, it would help you make yourself a fair judgment of him.

 

No we do not know much about his childhood and I too wished I knew more, so I agree with you there. Unfortunately, we are never going to get more as Adolin is not one of the flashback characters, a fact I have ranted on and on and one abundantly. I failed to see why you think we know more about Renarin than Adolin because if there one character that is under develop it is him. He is so under-develop he has managed to get on several people's nerves simply for not having any background. 

 

We know quite a few things about Adolin's interests: Adolin likes what young Alethi men are supposed to like because he baths within social convention. I would also point out we do not know about the other characters interests all that much.... Kaladin and Shallan do not count as they have had so many POV... Adolin, Adolin does not have their importance, so he can't have been drafted as well, but we know a lot more than you seem to think.

[tobar14]

Agreed but by nature philosophy is still trying to find the answers, I don't know if it is just the way I read Ham but it always seemed to me he had never even tried to find questions. I always envisioned him as asking philosophical questions to hear himself talk and it annoyed me.

 

haha yeah, it did seem like he did that a lot.  Maybe Brandon did that because otherwise we wouldn't hear anything form Ham unless we needed him to beat someone up or train the army.

[WayneSpren]

This one is tough, characters in general would probably be Dilaf or Hammond.

For PoV characters I would probably go with Vivenna.

I don't understand why you people hate Dilaf, other than him being evil and stuff...

Out of all the Sanderson antaganists, he is probably my absolute favorite. I think Brandon wrote him better than any other.

 

For my least favourite viewpoint characters, I'd have to say: 1) Kaladin, and 2) Vivenna.  Vivenna I tolerate more because she was supposed to be unlikable (especially compared to Siri who I adore).  

 

Oooo, and Wax and Marasi!  Can't say I really enjoyed either of them, so I'm excited that it looks like Steris (who I love) will play a larger role in future books.  As for Wax and Marasi, I was mainly just bored with both of them.  They didn't surprise me.  

 

 I love Kaladin's viewpoint chapters. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU TALKING ABOUT STERIS?? 

 

Anyway, Eshonai and Vivenna are my least favorite characters. As of halfway through WoR, I don't like Adolin either.

[The Sovereign]

I don't understand why you people hate Dilaf, other than him being evil and stuff...

Out of all the Sanderson antaganists, he is probably my absolute favorite. I think Brandon wrote him better than any other.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that I hated Dilaf, I've just never been a fan of the fanatical devotion trope, it makes me a bit uncomfortable honestly. I am too logic-minded to relate to it. In characters like Spook (toward Kelsier), Yomen (toward TLR), etc. it was more subtle so it didn't bother me so much, Dilaf was almost egregious in his fanatical hatred of Elantris and it bothered me.

As you can probably guess from this, Hrathen on the other hand, is one of my favorites

Edited August 10, 2015 by Iron Eyes

[The Honor Spren]

*Sigh* These discussions are always so depressing. . . They make me want to defend every character that's being hated on.

Kaladin: I haven't had time to read that many books in my relatively short life but, the "slave achieving greatness" trope doesn't seem that overused to me. At least it wasn't "farm boy discovers he has legendary powers and leaves home with a wise old man."

I, personally, lean towards Shalladin, but know it probably won't happen because of the whole Helaren deal. At this point, I've started looking other places for Kaladin ships.

Eshonai: Why don't people like her? She was a great character before she got mind controlled. Relatable and alien at the same time. You have to remember she is not human. On my first read, I will admit she wasn't my favorite. But after that she became a one of the best from my view.

Dalinar: I may have skipped some of his PoVs in WoK. . . I regret that now.

Shallan: is her own type of awesome. Though I'm not sure I like where this is going with the Ghostbloods.

Vivenna: is the only person that I really have problems with. Only in the first half, though. Once she got thrown into the streets she was good.

I'm not counting villains here. I may not have liked Dilaf, Roshone, Tonk Fah, Bluefingers, or Zane. But we weren't supposed to like them. They did their job well.

Edited August 10, 2015 by The Honor Spren

[Amrynn]

Pre-bridge 4 Kaladin was frustratingly whiny and beat down, and his "The man from before is dead." belief was terribly annoying.

[maxal]

Kaladin: I haven't had time to read that many books in my relatively short life but, the "slave achieving greatness" trope doesn't seem that overused to me. At least it wasn't "farm boy discovers he has legendary powers and leaves home with a wise old man."

I, personally, lean towards Shalladin, but know it probably won't happen because of the whole Helaren deal. At this point, I've started looking other places for Kaladin ships.

 

Well, whereas I agree the "slave achieving greatness" is not the same trope as the "farm boy discovers he has legendary powers and leaves with a wise old man", it does bear some resemblance. Kaladin is essentially a farm boy who indeed discovers he has legendary powers and he manages greatness out of nothing. He also is the poster boy for the troubled introspective bad boy with an attitude which has populated pretty much every single teen/romantic movie ever made. So I can understand why some people think Kaladin is too much of an overused trope. For my part, as I stated earlier, his story line was very effective for me in WoK, but I got tired of it at the end of WoR. I now wish to read about something else than Kaladin being dark and heroic. 

 

As for shipping... I have half a mind to write a full essay as to why I support the Adolin/Shallan ship and another one about the Edgedancer theory. Instead of always trying to bring forward the same arguments as discussions call it, I believe it would make a bigger impact as a cohesive text.

 

 

Eshonai: Why don't people like her? She was a great character before she got mind controlled. Relatable and alien at the same time. You have to remember she is not human. On my first read, I will admit she wasn't my favorite. But after that she became a one of the best from my view.

 

I personally do not dislike Eshonai as a character, but I find her boring to read. The whole "attuning" and "singing" thing the Parshendis use to communicate with each other did not make for an interesting read, in my opinion. However, whereas I disliked reading Eshonai's POV, I do think she has potential as a character. I may have listed her as one of my current least favorite, but I think she could grow on me.

 

 

Dalinar: I may have skipped some of his PoVs in WoK. . . I regret that now.

 

Dalinar is an awesome character which I adore, but his POV were not always interesting in to read in WoK. I was not overly enthralled by the visions, but I loved him in the main narrative. 

[dungeonfood]

Holden Caulfield

[Ookla the Absent]

Torol Sadeas. As my brother so eloquently phrased it, "He sucks"

 

He also says Cett is the lamest guy out there. Literally.

 

edit:

 

Holden Caulfield

Wait wha...?

Edited August 12, 2015 by Gargoyle

[maxal]

 

Torol Sadeas. As my brother so eloquently phrased it, "He sucks"

 

 

Personally, I enjoyed hating Sadeas.

[Left]

Straff Venture hands down. As a character he's great cause I can loathe him so much while not breaking the book or anything.

[ZotarDragonSlayer]

I'm gonna be totally honest, I think every character BS has ever made I both love and hate. Even the characters he makes for us to hate I love, just because I hate them so much. (does that make any sense? it did to me). Characters that some people find a tad aggressive/passive or too pessimistic/optimistic I find refreshing , I read fantasy (especially Sandersons) because I like seeing people I wouldn't normally see, with problems and situations that I would never have. 

 

Example.... I would hate Hoid if I didn't love him so much.

[the winter system]

That guy Vivenna brings as a guard into Hallandren. I think his name is Paulin? Can't remember.

Anyway, he was totally cardboard and he didn't do anything at all. He was just... There.

[Michael Portz]

Zane

 

First, second and third place on my personal list of characters I do not like in the cosmere.

[The Sovereign]

That guy Vivenna brings as a guard into Hallandren. I think his name is Paulin? Can't remember.

Anyway, he was totally cardboard and he didn't do anything at all. He was just... There.

 

Did you enjoy his play date with Tonk Fah?

Edited August 14, 2015 by Iron Eyes