Kaurne Posted June 2, 2013 Report Share Posted June 2, 2013 Just a quick thought that occurred to me, might have been mentioned before. Odium seems to be focused on driving men apart. Both hating and things that should be hated (the definition of Odium) do this. Honor speaking to Dalinar in his visions implies it; he talks about how Odium's direct assaults were uniting people and he deliberately tried to allow them to become divided by retreating. Odium has attacked Devotion and Dominion, who are speculated to have been working together in some way. He attacked Honor and Cultivation, who were more than working together - they were lovers. My conclusion? Driving things apart is what Odium does. It's his Intent. He creates division, separates people. It's his driving force that defines every thing he does. Brandon has stated that Odium feared Shards uniting like Sazed did. That's because it goes against all he has worked for. In fact, this also explains why he hasn't picked up any of the Shards he has defeated - it would go against his very nature to do so. Maybe what Odium wants is for each Shard to stay on its own and to be on a separate world, and he's willing to attack and Splinter Shards if they refuse - which Honor and Cultivation obviously would, since they were lovers. Many have speculated that Hoid wants to restore Adonalsium. This explains why he has such a specific 'beef' (as Brandon put it) with Odium; Odium wants to keep the Shards sperate, while Hoid wants to unite them again. Anyway, that's what I think Odium is about; division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 2, 2013 Report Share Posted June 2, 2013 Thing is, Odium's goal is to knock /everyone/ else down. He doesn't want to absorb shards because he's fine with his current personality. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/1729-a-late-breaking-report/ Odium wants to be the only Shard. Odium could pick up other Shards if he wants to, but, he doesn't want to. His Shard is a good match for his personality and he doesn't want to be influenced by another Shard. Brandon said offhandedly, "It is not random who got which Shard." Also, Shards very rarely change hands. Brandon emphasized the "very" there. http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=675 Question So Ruin and Preservation combine. When Odium slays the Shardbearers, why doesn’t he absorb the enemy Shards? Brandon Sanderson Because that would actually change the way he views the world. The Shard would actually start to influence him, and could actually ruin who he views himself as being. So instead of combining them all, his goal is to destroy them all and be the only one left at his power level. QUESTION So by his nature, he can't combine? BRANDON SANDERSON I mean he could, but it would change his nature. So he won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aniki Posted June 2, 2013 Report Share Posted June 2, 2013 Maybe Odium is doing what is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmatist Posted June 3, 2013 Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 I kind of like the whole "Odium is division" idea, because it relates to Taln's Scar (in the sky, viewable from Roshar). This red swath of stars could possibly be the result of Odium driving apart the cosmere - physically moving sections of the universe at relativistic speeds, causing them to redshift. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Fawx Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I like the idea that Odium is driving people apart as well. But if his main goal is to Splinter the Shards others are holding, and he's already ruined Honor, then why would he still be sitting around on Roshar trying to drive people apart? What is his current goal there?My personal theory is that when Hoid is talking to Dalinar, and he mentions that he's seeking after an old friend but that he spends most of his time hiding from him, the 'old friend' in question is Rayse/Odium. Maybe Odium knows that Hoid is there and that he's out to unite Adonalsium, so both of them are using Roshar as a battleground for their conflict against one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leuthie Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 I would say its more likely either 1) Cultivation is actively holding him there or 2) he has developed hatred (unavoidable as part of his Intent) for Cultivation or Roshar itself that is holding him there. Narratively, it would be interesting if the Intent he chose specifically to hold him to the task of Splintering Shards keeps him from finishing the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isomere Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Cultivation is actively holding him there. I like this idea, Cultivation's holder is confirmed to be alive, and we have no idea what she is doing at the moment. I've always assumed it was the Heralds that were keeping Odium on Roshar. They seem to be involved in some sort of plot to keep something very big and very bad trapped, and they endangered that by not going back to Damnation after the previous desolation. Will be interesting to find out more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jParker Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Odium wants to be the only Shard. Odium could pick up other Shards if he wants to, but, he doesn't want to. His Shard is a good match for his personality and he doesn't want to be influenced by another Shard. To sort of build off of what Phantom brought up, why wouldn't Odium stay on Roshar? Why wouldn't he try to destroy all the other shards? Holding a Shard of Adonalsium forms a symbiotic relationship with one's personality and Rayse is already an angry/spiteful person; it makes sense that holding Odium would only feed more into that, maybe even to the point of irrationality. Granted, that's largely speculation on my part, but I think it would not be impossible for Brandon to move in that direction, if only introduce more chaos and unpredictability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 To sort of build off of what Phantom brought up, why wouldn't Odium stay on Roshar? Why wouldn't he try to destroy all the other shards?In my view, he hasn't finished the job yet - cultivation is still on his hitlist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Fawx Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 That actually makes a lot of sense. Cultivation is not Splintered or dead yet, so either Odium has decided to stay till he finishes the job, or Cultivation is keeping him there somehow. Makes me wonder how Taravangian fits into the whole deal, since he's having Szeth kill off individual rulers and people who might serve to unite their nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Also, it's hard for odium to leave Phoenix Comicon https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_sTZkZ0Irdf3haauT5PnX94yYQSyQGlCqUAcOBafTMs/ When one of the shards, like Odium, move from world to world in the cosmere, does their presence, like the metals they leave behind and their magic, leave with them? Umm... Odium never really settled on a planet. He is now settled on Roshar and his magic has permeated things. Leaving would be very difficult for him. It would either involve leaving behind some of his power or ripping that out, which would be a difficult process. So yes it is very tough to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Fawx Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 Hmmm. That might be the reasoning behind the Everstorm that destroys the world in Dalinar's vision from the Almighty. Maybe he intends to take the entire world down at once so he can finish off Cultivation and free his roots from the world at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isomere Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Cultivation is not Splintered or dead yet, I have never seen confirmation that Cultivation has not been splintered, only that the person from Yolen who picked up that shard is still alive. I see no reason to assume splintering is necessarily fatal to the holder. That said, there are good arguments to support Cultivation being intact. I like the theory that she is forming Odium's prison. I also like the idea that she is simply hiding and promoting growth and evolution from the shadows. If the prison is in Shadesmar she could actually be both hiding and trapping odium at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolo Posted June 24, 2013 Report Share Posted June 24, 2013 Sorry, but, who said Honor and Cultivation were lovers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 24, 2013 Report Share Posted June 24, 2013 Sorry, but, who said Honor and Cultivation were lovers? http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3553-rithmatist-albuquerque-nm-signing/ Later during the signing I got to ask two more questions which he kindly wrote into my books. The first was: "Is cultivation's holder still alive?" Quote YES. "Were Cultivation and Honor romantically involved?" Quote >YES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor Feesh Posted June 24, 2013 Report Share Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) Brandon has stated they were romantically involved. Although this needn't explicitly mean they were jumping each other's metaphysical bones, it's not an unreasonable assumption either. Curse you Phantom, beating me to the punch by 2 mins. Edited June 24, 2013 by Senor Feesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted June 24, 2013 Report Share Posted June 24, 2013 Curse you Phantom, beating me to the punch by 2 mins. You can't beat me in a quote-off. I am simply the best there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor Feesh Posted June 24, 2013 Report Share Posted June 24, 2013 Well, I choose to blame the fact that I was typing one-handed whilst also trying to entertain a grumpy baby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaurne Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Brandon has stated they were romantically involved. Although this needn't explicitly mean they were jumping each other's metaphysical bones, it's not an unreasonable assumption either. Curse you Phantom, beating me to the punch by 2 mins. That's a really weird thought. How would they actually, you know, have sex? Do they just bump their nexuses together while the appropriate music plays? Do they take mortal form? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isomere Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) I commented on this here, basically saying that shardic sex created Honorspren. EDIT: some quotes about honorspren being a merging of Honor and Cultivation's investiture are a few posts down from the above link. Edited June 25, 2013 by Isomere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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