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The First Human Voidbinder Will Be…?


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Adolin. Here’s the argument:

 

  • Voidbinding is literally “binding the Void.” It is the magic Honor devised to ensnare Odium in Greater Roshar. As a magic, it combines the elements of both Honor and Odium.

 

Preview of yet another unpublished post: Roshar’s three magics are Surgebinding (Honor and Cultivation); the “Old Magic” (Cultivation and Odium); and Voidbinding. Honor used Voidbinding to create the Old Magic – binding together the Minds of Cultivation and Odium (Cognitive boons and curses) – and Stormlight (binding together the gaseous Physical investiture of all three, the only Shard “Power” actually on Roshar, with one and maybe two exceptions...) This is all I want to get into for now…

 

  • The Honorblades are Voidbinding fabrials. That’s why they were created.
  • The True Desolation has come. Nale seeks to recover the Honorblades from the Stone Shamans and reunite the Honorblades with their Heralds.
  • One “drooling” Herald is unable to answer the call.
  • Coincidentally, that Herald’s Honorblade happens to be in Urithiru at the moment.
  • Also coincidentally, young Adolin is about to be exiled for murder. Dalinar will save Adolin from execution by relinquishing “Taln’s” Shardblade and requiring Adolin to turn over his own. These will go to men chosen by Ialai as payment for her agreement to reduce the death sentence to exile. (I am SOOOOOO sorry Maxal and the other Edgedancer adherents. You make such a good case. But narratively, I think this one works better. Maybe the recipient of Adolin’s Shardblade will become an Edgedancer because of Adolin’s prior attentions.) She will see her rise to power (controlling three Shardblades now, once Oathbringer is found) well worth her husband's death. She will maintain power by rotating Shardblades among different suitors, a more wicked version of Penelope awaiting Odysseus.
  • Dalinar will search his honor and conclude that he can give Adolin the Blade Kaladin gave him, not realizing that it's an Honorblade.
  • Like Voidbinding itself, Adolin balances within him two competing “mandates” (intents): honor and hatred.
  • On the one hand, Adolin is a decent, honorable man. He takes genuine delight in the company of any person no matter how humble (the bridge waterboys). He will also stand up to protect an unknown prostitute against aggression. He sounds a lot like Jezrien to me in both his humility and his humanity, even when his young self still wrestles with pride. He’s portrayed throughout the two books as a “lead and protect” kind of guy.
  • But he also became “irrevocably enraged” (italics in original) when he “snapped” the moment before killing Sadeas. That’s Odium’s domain, and Adolin now lives there “irrevocably.” As I pointed out in this post, “irrevocable rage” emanates from “immortal hatred.”

 

So that’s the argument. And before you object, first answer me why Adolin is the only character with so much black and blond hair? Metaphor? (Please don’t bring up that Jezrien was blond. It’s JUST a metaphor… until the Honorblade’s identity spren chooses to replace the “drooling Jezrien” with Adolin, who then becomes fully blond...)

 

Thoughts?

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Ummm....

 

Not sure what I think of this, it's just the sort of crazy insane theory that turns out to be true all-too-often.

 

THEREFORE I LOVE IT!

 

Adolin as honor+Odium? YES! Perfect!

 

Although I am somewhat skeptical of the Honorblade=Fabrial theory.....

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*waits for the Shardpenny to drop and for Maxal to crack some fingers over the keyboard*

 

As for the the irrevocably part, I took that as not only had he been put through the rinser physically and emotionally, Highprince Trollol was now messing with him psychologically and normally he is good at keeping everything in check. So to me he was beyond calming down/mitigating/placating and just let all the emotion burst in one go. Whilst I do support the Edgedancer/Possible Radiancy theory, I'm holding back on making any theories for his future until we see the fallout. He's a wildcard, I give you that

 

As for the theory, i like it and very well thought + set out  (You're on a roll with all these theories!)

Edited by ParadoxSpren
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I guess I want to clarify, is this you throwing out a well conceived idea you came up with? or some serious theorizing?

Another member, I think either Skaa or Only Joe, as well as myself have theorized fairly in-depthly about the nature of void binding in relation to the other Rosharan magic systems, and we concluded that we just didn't have enough information about it except that it was probably a magic system resulting from a combination of either Cultivation/Odium or Honor/Odiums powers. Do you have any evidence that void binding is from the honor/odium and is found in the honor blades?

While its possible Sadeas's wife finds out about Adolin and presses some kind of charge, what makes you think that she would have the political clout to get the Kholins to give up shards? Given the still Huge value of shards, I have a very hard time seeing it.

Apologizes if I'm being a stick in the mud, especially if you're just spinning ideas, because they are good ideas. If you are theorizing seriously, which it kinda came off like you were, I was wondering about some of your jumps.

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*waits for the Shardpenny to drop and for Maxal to crack some fingers over the keyboard*

 

I feel I am getting a reputation here...  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r: In any advent, here it is.

 

 

First of, you are absolutely not destroying any of my "Adolin will revive his Blade and become an Edgedancer" theories... Have you read them? They linger somewhere in one of the oldest Adolin's posts... I am not entirely sure where, but I jumped into that bandwagon last fall. Before that, I was all for the "Adolin will revive his Blade and become a Dustbringer". I was so, so, so wrong. I have seen the truth since.

 

That being said I have advocate for the longest time Adolin needs to lose his Shards... As for Ialai asking for paiement in exchange of Adolin's safety: I was the one to bring it forward. It absolutely does not violate any of my theorizing as I believe the gem bond he has with his Blade prevents him from moving forward with his bond. He needs to break it and start capitalizing on the other bond I believe he may have been crafting for years now. 

 

So fear not, you are not destroying anything. However, having anyone else revive Adolin's Blade would be the most anti-climatic development ever. It is supposed to be extremely hard to revive a dead-Blade, so to have your average Joe-Blo coming after Adolin and capitalized on the fact he has been talking to it for years to become a Radiant is just... no. Brandon would never write that. I refuse to believe Brandon would ever use such a ploy. 

 

As for the rest, I personally do not think the Honorblade would ever come Adolin's way... even if he did, I would expect Adolin to refuse it because he is not worthy. 

 

 

  • Like Voidbinding itself, Adolin balances within him two competing “mandates” (intents): honor and hatred.
  • On the one hand, Adolin is a decent, honorable man. He takes genuine delight in the company of any person no matter how humble (the bridge waterboys). He will also stand up to protect an unknown prostitute against aggression. He sounds a lot like Jezrien to me in both his humility and his humanity, even when his young self still wrestles with pride. He’s portrayed throughout the two books as a “lead and protect” kind of guy.
  • But he also became “irrevocably enraged” (italics in original) when he “snapped” the moment before killing Sadeas. That’s Odium’s domain, and Adolin now lives there “irrevocably.” As I pointed out in this post, “irrevocable rage” emanates from “immortal hatred.”

 

First sentence: Adolin does not balance with honor and hatred... He balances between what he believes is right and what his father believes is right. This is his duality. Hatred? Yes, he is an emotionally driven fellow and like most of those, his initial reaction to any unplanned situations is emotional as opposed to being rational. When he feels injustice, he gets angry, but not because he is prey to Odium, because he cares too much about everything. It is hard to describe on the keyboard, but if he feels something is wrong, whether it is legal or not, will not matter: he will raged against it because being powerless is the worst for emotional people. You need to find a way to evacuate the steam, somehow and there is nothing more than being stuck in a situation you feel is wrong but have no power to change.

 

It is the recipe for emotional outbursts.

 

Adolin is a "lead and protect" kind of guy, sort of, but he differs widely from Kaladin. Kaladin genuily wants to protect those he sees as his people. Adolin is not about protecting, he is about caring. If it is wrong and he can make it right: he acts. If he can't act, then someone's got to teach him how to unload his emotions: I tell my 5 years old to go squeeze a blanket or a stuffed animal....  :ph34r: The prostitute? He was not trying to protect her, though the end result ended up in him protecting her. He saw something he perceived as wrong: men molesting a woman. He fixed it. Kaladin was unjustly imprisionned. He saw it as wrong: he fixed it as best as he could. Not protecting: caring.

 

Yes, he was enraged, but it was good old anger, not Odium induced anger, as confirmed by Brandon. Sadeas was threatening his family. Sadeas being allowed to continu his tyranny after having slaughtered 6000 Kholin men is seen as a massive wrong by Adolin. He has tried to fixed it: but he has failed. He has not other options left. He should have probably waited for a better opportunity, but chances are Dalinar would have refused to deal with Sadeas, just as he had in the past. He was powerless. He has not other resort, so anger flew away and he couldn't control it. 

 

Is Adolin honorable enough to become the next Jezrien? I think not. His honor sense differs widely from Kaladin. Kaladin would not diverged from a planned road as it would be dishonorable, whereas Adolin would, if he sees it as right. Adolin's driving essence is his sense of right/wrong which is heavily triggered by is caring nature. He won't slay beasts while hunting because the fight is unfair and the poor animal cannot defend itself. Nobody else cares about poor animal while hunting but Adolin who thinks it is dishonorable butchery.

 

So all in all, no. Sorry.

 

 

While its possible Sadeas's wife finds out about Adolin and presses some kind of charge, what makes you think that she would have the political clout to get the Kholins to give up shards? Given the still Huge value of shards, I have a very hard time seeing it.

 

 

I have actually launched that one... Not impossible if Ialai sees it as a better advantage then getting rid of Adolin. As for Dalinar, shards in exchance for his son's safety: not a bad deal. I would not put all my eggs in that one, but I rank into the possible developments.

Edited by maxal
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Tangentially related to the theory, but I'd be genuinely surprised if Voidbinding has not already been practiced by people for thousands of years. Just because the Radiants gave up Surgebinding does not mean any Voidbinders did the same thing.

 

I almost expect one of the secret societies to include a number of Voidbinders. The Ghostbloods would be my first choice.

 

Voidbinding is literally “binding the Void.” It is the magic Honor devised to ensnare Odium in Greater Roshar. As a magic, it combines the elements of both Honor and Odium.

 

I expect you've seen this WoB, but Scadrial's magics were not created by Shards, so I am incredibly incredibly reluctant to believe any magic systems from other Shards were designed.

 

As far as we can tell, the most Shards can do is modify how the magic is accessed, rather than directly alter how the system works. So while yes, the Honorblades are probably an example of Shardic tinkering with how one accesses the Surgebinding system, I would not name it a new magic system, and I would not believe regular humans are capable of creating new Honorblades "naturally" (ie. without Realmatic science/hackery) like humans can operate most Investitures.

 

Mistborn spoilers:

As an example of this magic system alteration limitation, Preservation made atium Mistings possible, for example, and specifically turned people into Allomancers who never normally would have Snapped via the mists, but as far as we can tell he was not actually able to modify the Allomantic powers themselves. Sazed himself made Snapping easier, but he too has not changed Allomancy.

 

The Honorblades are Voidbinding fabrials. That’s why they were created.

 

I disagree strongly with this. The Ars Arcanum's author writes:

The preceding list is an imperfect gathering of traditional Vorin symbolism associated with the Ten Essences. [...]
Ancient scholars also placed the ten orders of Knights Radiant on this list, alongside the Heralds themselves, who each had a classical association with one of the numbers and Essences.

I’m not certain yet how the ten levels of Voidbinding or its cousin the Old Magic fit into this paradigm, if indeed they can. My research suggests that, indeed, there should be another series of abilities that is even more esoteric than the Voidbindings. Perhaps the Old Magic fits into those, though I am beginning to suspect that it is something entirely different.

 

There are ten levels of Voidbinding, and this really really makes it sound like they were their own distinct set of powers (albeit also modeled after the Surges - see the possible Voidbinding chart here and note the similarity to the Surgebinding chart).

 

Preview of yet another unpublished post: Roshar’s three magics are Surgebinding (Honor and Cultivation); the “Old Magic” (Cultivation and Odium); and Voidbinding. Honor used Voidbinding to create the Old Magic – binding together the Minds of Cultivation and Odium (Cognitive boons and curses) – and Stormlight (binding together the gaseous Physical investiture of all three, the only Shard “Power” actually on Roshar, with one and maybe two exceptions...) This is all I want to get into for now…

 

WoB is that one of the magic systems (involving 10) involves fabrials. Combined with the WoB saying we have either 3 or 30 (or 2 or 20) systems on Roshar (and note too he implies each of these 3 systems of 10 will be variations on the Surges, like the systems of Mistborn were based on metals), as well as the Ars Arcanum mentioning the "ten levels of Voidbinding" (meaning 10 Surges + 10 Voidbindings brings us up to 20...) I am loathe to call the Old Magic an actual stand-alone system equivalent to Allomancy or the like - it's seemingly just a natural outgrowth of the spren magics (like fabrials and the Stormfather's control over storms).

 

(Wow, I used a lot of brackets there. Sorry.)

 

(Note on the last: I would be intellectually dishonest not to mention this WoB, where Brandon seems to consider the Old Magic an actual system. However, he has done the same thing for Soulcasting, or at least some characters have, so I do not consider it a very significant WoB. It is also conceivable he would consider what the Stormfather does its own system?)

 

So, for your yet-unpublished post, I would bring special attention to the Ars Arcanum's author mentioning that they believe there is a more "esoteric" magic system they have yet to uncover, which I suspect will be the final set of 10 (and involve fabrials). I would strongly suspect that these 3 sets of 10 are going to be Roshar's direct Shardic systems.

 

At the risk of being arrogant, I did a little work with PorridgeBrick on this here. Speculation on the Old Magic is obviously off-base (I hadn't yet come to believe it was just a spren-system), but I'd still consider something like Surgebinding = H+C, Voidbinding = O, Esoteric System = H+C+O to be the most probable arrangement at the moment (because when Odium had not yet Invested into the Rosharan system, I think H+C operated like the Shards of Sel and 'meshed' with a singular system of Surgebinding - which would mean to have three systems under Intent Meshing theory, Odium has to have a system entirely his own).

Edited by Moogle
Added many new responses to the original post to what originally I only intended to be one paragraph. I'm bad at this.
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I feel I am getting a reputation here...  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r: In any advent, here it is.

 

 

First of, you are absolutely not destroying any of my "Adolin will revive his Blade and become an Edgedancer" theories... Have you read them? They linger somewhere in one of the oldest Adolin's posts... I am not entirely sure where, but I jumped into that bandwagon last fall. Before that, I was all for the "Adolin will revive his Blade and become a Dustbringer". I was so, so, so wrong. I have seen the truth since.

 

That being said I have advocate for the longest time Adolin needs to lose his Shards... As for Ialai asking for paiement in exchange of Adolin's safety: I was the one to bring it forward. It absolutely does not violate any of my theorizing as I believe the gem bond he has with his Blade prevents him from moving forward with his bond. He needs to break it and start capitalizing on the other bond I believe he may have been crafting for years now. 

 

So fear not, you are not destroying anything. However, having anyone else revive Adolin's Blade would be the most anti-climatic development ever. It is supposed to be extremely hard to revive a dead-Blade, so to have your average Joe-Blo coming after Adolin and capitalized on the fact he has been talking to it for years to become a Radiant is just... no. Brandon would never write that. I refuse to believe Brandon would ever use such a ploy. 

 

As for the rest, I personally do not think the Honorblade would ever come Adolin's way... even if he did, I would expect Adolin to refuse it because he is not worthy. 

 

 

 

First sentence: Adolin does not balance with honor and hatred... He balances between what he believes is right and what his father believes is right. This is his duality. Hatred? Yes, he is an emotionally driven fellow and like most of those, his initial reaction to any unplanned situations is emotional as opposed to being rational. When he feels injustice, he gets angry, but not because he is prey to Odium, because he cares too much about everything. It is hard to describe on the keyboard, but if he feels something is wrong, whether it is legal or not, will not matter: he will raged against it because being powerless is the worst for emotional people. You need to find a way to evacuate the steam, somehow and there is nothing more than being stuck in a situation you feel is wrong but have no power to change.

 

It is the recipe for emotional outbursts.

 

Adolin is a "lead and protect" kind of guy, sort of, but he differs widely from Kaladin. Kaladin genuily wants to protect those he sees as his people. Adolin is not about protecting, he is about caring. If it is wrong and he can make it right: he acts. If he can't act, then someone's got to teach him how to unload his emotions: I tell my 5 years old to go squeeze a blanket or a stuffed animal....  :ph34r: The prostitute? He was not trying to protect her, though the end result ended up in him protecting her. He saw something he perceived as wrong: men molesting a woman. He fixed it. Kaladin was unjustly imprisionned. He saw it as wrong: he fixed it as best as he could. Not protecting: caring.

 

Yes, he was enraged, but it was good old anger, not Odium induced anger, as confirmed by Brandon. Sadeas was threatening his family. Sadeas being allowed to continu his tyranny after having slaughtered 6000 Kholin men is seen as a massive wrong by Adolin. He has tried to fixed it: but he has failed. He has not other options left. He should have probably waited for a better opportunity, but chances are Dalinar would have refused to deal with Sadeas, just as he had in the past. He was powerless. He has not other resort, so anger flew away and he couldn't control it. 

 

Is Adolin honorable enough to become the next Jezrien? I think not. His honor sense differs widely from Kaladin. Kaladin would not diverged from a planned road as it would be dishonorable, whereas Adolin would, if he sees it as right. Adolin's driving essence is his sense of right/wrong which is heavily triggered by is caring nature. He won't slay beasts while hunting because the fight is unfair and the poor animal cannot defend itself. Nobody else cares about poor animal while hunting but Adolin who thinks it is dishonorable butchery.

 

So all in all, no. Sorry.

 

 

 

I have actually launched that one... Not impossible if Ialai sees it as a better advantage then getting rid of Adolin. As for Dalinar, shards in exchance for his son's safety: not a bad deal. I would not put all my eggs in that one, but I rank into the possible developments.

Just because someone isn't being influenced by Odium dosent mean that they cannot hate. Look at Dalinar and Kaladin, two extremely honorable people not being influenced (as far as we know) by Honor. I don't know about you but "Irrevocably enraged" doesn't sound like good 'ol anger to me, it sounds like good 'ol hate for Sadeas, especially in conjunction with him killing the man. Also you think that Adolin will become an edgedancer via restoring his blade? "I will remember those who have been forgotten" seems a lot father away from what Adolin is now than hateful, as this theory suggests. Also I have a sneaking suspicion that "Hard but not impossible" means that it prob won't happen, especially because Brandon had to think for a moment when first asked the question. If he had something like that in mind for a main character I feel he wouldn't have difficulty thinking if it could happen or not. I personally believe that ones identity needs to be stolen via Aluminum metal mind for something like reviving a shardblade to be possible without the original Radiant. If you wish to explain to me your Adolin and his shardblade theory then pm me, I find it a lot less reasonable than this theory.

I think this theory is very good, but I do not believe that the whole "Honorblade=Voidbinding fabrial" thing. When Taravangian was confronted by Szeth about Kaladin Surgebinding and his regenerating his shard-cut arm Mr.T told Szeth that it must be one of the honorblades that can use the healing surge. I am of the belief that the bottom half (of the double eye chart of Surgebinding) is of Cultivation and the top half is of Honor, more of less, which seems to be popular belief. If so then why would a Voidbinding fabrial, which is supposed to be Odium+Honor have a cultivation based surge. Healing doesn't seem at all hateful to me.

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Blightsong, I'll PM you later today (I have a waterpark with my name on it for the day :P) with the details of the "Adolin revive his Blade and becomes an Edgedancer". It does not deal with the details of how to proceed to actually revive the Blade as I am not the most knowledgeable individuals on the working mechanism of magic. It deals mostly with how Adolin is a very good match to the Edgedancers.

 

However, I'll say Brandon was always careful to leave the door open when it comes to reviving a Blade. He never said it would be downright impossible: he said it would be extremely difficult. He always left it open enough for us to keep on believing it may happen. My personal thoughts on the matter are Brandon himself may not have decided if he wants to go this way. Or perhaps he has, but wish not to give it away. RAFO would have given it away. Saying it is impossible would have gave it away. Evasive answers does not give it away. It makes us suspicious.

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To reply to the OP on the question though... 

 

I think it'll be Elohkar. 

 

We know he's been watched by spren, likely Cryptics, so there is potential for "filling in the cracks in his soul" with spren/splinter bonds. I think he'll take a dark turn when all of everyone around him becomes Radiants, even his body guard troupe, and he is still a crappy king. He'll take the easy path to power and will become a very Alethi king in how he exercises that power. 

 

To take it further, i wouldn't be surprised if Elohkar turns the tables on Dalinar, surprising him with his new found Voidbinding powers and reverses the scene at the end of tWoK, but without the whole keeping him alive part that Dalinar does for Elhokar. Elhokar "avenges" that slight from Dalinar and takes the kingdom in hand, maybe even fooling the other KR into thinking that he is the new Bondsmith now that Dalinar is dead, maybe not. 

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Plus, Elhokar is like an imature teenager way out of his depth, he wouldn't simply kill his uncle for bitterness, no matter how weird Dalinar's paternal instincts are. Actualy, I believe after that incident with Kaladin he will be less likely to imprision people for stupid reasons.

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Pattern and Syl both identify voidspren on sight, so. . . .

 

It's probably hard to hide the Stormfather bond being broken, yes XD

 

So, the part about pretending is probably OT, I'll admit... it's more likely that he would take the throne in force with his new found power, and turn the kingdom against the fledgling Radiants. 

 
 

Plus, Elhokar is like an imature teenager way out of his depth, he wouldn't simply kill his uncle for bitterness, no matter how weird Dalinar's paternal instincts are. Actualy, I believe after that incident with Kaladin he will be less likely to imprision people for stupid reasons.

 

Oh, I have hope that Elohkar won't go this route, and I agree he's not ready for it yet. It really depends on what/how Brandon wants to play with fantasy tropes. He's set up family Kholin to basically be the Knights Kholin (and their friends). Usually when you have a bright shiny group like that one of them tends to go bad and "turn to the dark side" (choose your evil side). Elhokar has thus far been presented as the Kholin family weak link, and it's usually the weak link who goes dark because that is the easy way to power. 

 

I'm not saying it'll happen next book. it might not happen until the 2nd 5 book arc, but I can fully see Elohkar going to Voidbinding as his character stands right now. Plus, it wasn't that big a leap from Whiny teenage Anakin to "Murder Younglings" Anakin. We've seen what Voidspren can do to a fairly decent an honorable Parshendi, who are but the broth for humans. Who knows what a bound Void Spren would do to a human of weak will/ability like Elhokar? 

 

Maybe the Cryptics aren't gone from Elohkar because of Kaladin's presence... Syl has said she seen other spren about of Odium. Maybe that is what is keeping the Cryptics away from Elohkar. 

 

I'm just saying, he is the most central character who I see falling to Voidbinding. 

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I actually think Elhokar could be shaping up to be somewhat of a decent leader and growing up from the spoilt, unthinking brat he is to a fairly decent King. After all, the scene with Mumma Lopen might be the event he needed to open his eyes and start his journey/epiphany

Edited by ParadoxSpren
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Honestly, I think Brandon will try to surprise us by having Elhokar's journey be not of learning how to rule well, but how to let other take the crown and seek his own path towards glory. Nice way to please both those who see potential goodness in Elhokar and those who see a bad king.

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Ah Elhokar... He has been my first choice for the "one Kholin goes bad" theory. Why? Because Elhokar is weak. He wants power, he wants renown, he wants to be a great king, but he is unable to achieve it. He has no self-esteem so he is unable to weight in the opinion he receives with his own wit. He ends up simply deciding whom he should believe: his uncle, his advisors or himself, but he does not reflect on it. Hence, he always fails.

 

What does Elhokar wants more than ever? Power. Regonition. And in his attempt to succeed at this, all he has done is capitalized in his weakness: his paranoia, his fears. He is the antithesis of a Radiant: he is not strong and whatever strenght he may have, he chosed not to use it to favor his weaknesses. He does not care about the life of others, only about his. 

 

I failed to see what spending 3 days with Lopen's mother is going to change about it. Now let's be clear, I do not think Elhokar is a bad person, he isn't, but I do think he is highly susceptible to fall prey to his weaknesses in his trials to become a great king. He is the kind of person whom would lose his sanity to gain power if it were offered to him. All other characters are not after power or renown.

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Adolin. Here’s the argument:

 

  • Voidbinding is literally “binding the Void.” It is the magic Honor devised to ensnare Odium in Greater Roshar. As a magic, it combines the elements of both Honor and Odium.
 

[

Wait, okay. This is a big IF I'm about to put out there, but if its true, eeeek! :D

So, if Voidbinding is Honor and Odium, then there would probably be spren of both of them in Voidbinding. If there are uneven mixtures, then there may be a type of spren almost entirely of Honor, that is involved in Voidbinding. If there is a spren like that, and Ehonai will be a Voidbinder, like people are saying, she could get that type of spren! A mostly good one! Hope is restored! Yay! :D

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