Belcyrlis Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I wondered about the Simple Rules. They seemed like expenditures of energy used in desperation while I was reading. If you're running, chances are you are afraid or in a desperate kind of hurry, using a lot of energy. If you're shedding blood, you're most likely using a lot of energy and it flipping HURTS, resulting in that desperate emotion. Fire is hot, fast moving energy in itself that you're probably using to survive.Actually, all of these are a heated energy. Hmm. What do we really know about the Simple Rules? They can be gotten around, yes. Are there really only three? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I wondered about the Simple Rules. They seemed like expenditures of energy used in desperation while I was reading. If you're running, chances are you are afraid or in a desperate kind of hurry, using a lot of energy. If you're shedding blood, you're most likely using a lot of energy and it flipping HURTS, resulting in that desperate emotion. Fire is hot, fast moving energy in itself that you're probably using to survive.Actually, all of these are a heated energy. Hmm. What do we really know about the Simple Rules? They can be gotten around, yes. Are there really only three? Some speculate that the Shades are aganist the Entropy, and anyone who accelerate it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Shades' and their multiple states remind me of Warbreaker Spoilers The way Nightblood kills his victims ands the way he corrupts investiture. Perhaps the Shades are the corrupted souls of all the people Nightblood's killed? Along with that Silver theory over in the Cosmere section, with Nightblood's sheath being silvery in appearance, there might be something here 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Well there are some similitudes. But I really don't think there is a "strong" correlation, maybe just the same (or similar) phenomenon that occours on both independently Shardworld. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ninja Yodeler Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) I wonder what the AOE for the simple rules is. These Threnodites(I like it better than Threnodians, sry Alfa) really need to star sciencin'. I mean I know silver can create a border(blocking the simple rules? Or maybe the Shades can still detect it, but the silver in the border walls stops them.?). Really I'm just wondering if Yata is correct, saying you need to be near a Shade for the Simple Rules to take effect, or if it's effect on the FOH is pervasive. Edited January 22, 2016 by The Ninja Yodeler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopen Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I didn't read everything in this thread because its kinda long but I doubt that the Forests of Hell is any sort of afterlife... How can you die in the afterlife, and even if you ignore that how can a character escape from it? Isn't there a worldhopper from Threnody? It just doesn't make sense to me, it doesn't seem Sanderson-like. And wasn't there a different sort of afterlife already hinted at by Harmony? What if each world had its own afterlife, unique to the beliefs of the people living there. That would make sense to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ninja Yodeler Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I didn't read everything in this thread because its kinda long but I doubt that the Forests of Hell is any sort of afterlife... How can you die in the afterlife, and even if you ignore that how can a character escape from it? Isn't there a worldhopper from Threnody? It just doesn't make sense to me, it doesn't seem Sanderson-like. And wasn't there a different sort of afterlife already hinted at by Harmony? What if each world had its own afterlife, unique to the beliefs of the people living there. That would make sense to me. I don't know what books you have read so far, so I'm not going to spoil anything from another series. Suffice to say people can die and remain around in a certain form that I won't spoil for you either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopen Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I don't know what books you have read so far, so I'm not going to spoil anything from another series. Suffice to say people can die and remain around in a certain form that I won't spoil for you either. Uhh, I think I have read all the cosmere related books, including all the short stories (and White Sand that Brandon's assistant emailed me upon request)... I know there is another unpublished book that I could read that I haven't yet, but I forget what it is called. Anyways, please enlighten me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaIadin Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 another unpublished book that I could read that I haven't yet, but I forget what it is called. Yeah, it's called the Aether of Night. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopen Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Yeah, it's called the Aether of Night. Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ninja Yodeler Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Uhh, I think I have read all the cosmere related books, including all the short stories (and White Sand that Brandon's assistant emailed me upon request)... I know there is another unpublished book that I could read that I haven't yet, but I forget what it is called. Anyways, please enlighten me. Oh OK. In that case I meant (spoiler tags since its not Mistborn boards) Kelsier and his Cognitive Shadow. Not sure if Saz was responsible for that, or if it just happens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Thenody has the peculiar to have Cognitive Shadows twisted in Shades and if someone were killed by a Shade he became a Cognitive Shadow (and of course a Shade). Answer to the Spoiler: Sazed isn't responsable for that (maybe Leras but I am unsure). Kelsier became a cognitive Shadow before the Sazed's Ascension. He pick up Preservation at the Leras's death. To keep the Shard safe until Vin can reclame it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ninja Yodeler Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Thenody has the peculiar to have Cognitive Shadows twisted in Shades and if someone were killed by a Shade he became a Cognitive Shadow (and of course a Shade). Answer to the Spoiler: Sazed isn't responsable for that (maybe Leras but I am unsure). Kelsier became a cognitive Shadow before the Sazed's Ascension. He pick up Preservation at the Leras's death. To keep the Shard safe until Vin can reclame it. Oh OK I see. So its not dependant on a Shard to make Cognitive Shadows. That's good to know. Wonder why CogShadows are so screwy on Threnody? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Oh OK I see. So its not dependant on a Shard to make Cognitive Shadows. That's good to know. Wonder why CogShadows are so screwy on Threnody? It almost makes me wonder if there's something there in the Cognitive Realm that's blocking their sentience, similar to what the kandra experience as mistwraiths. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 I've always seen it as the specific phenomenon, like an infection. People don't turn into shades just because they died, it's only if you're killed by a shade. While it's possible there's some universal component that acts together, there is something unique in people killed by shades, not just people killed, period. Silence worries for a moment that she might have awakened... I think it's called a Deeper One, or a Deepest One. I sorta see it as patient zero. Once, long ago, there were no shades, just a few Deepest Ones. The first people killed by a Deepest One turned into a shade, and now anyone killed by a shade or a Deepest One turns into a shade. It's basically like zombies. In theory, if someone led a concerted effort and simply killed off every shade, and if they were able to somehow kill or trap the Deepest Ones, the Forests would become just another wood. It's just that there are so many at this point that it's realistically implausible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mestiv Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Hmm just a thought... Deepest One... Jedeth from Elantris is refered to God Below at one point and in Shu-Dereth they believe he'll come from underground one everyone is united in Shu-Dereth. Maybe there's some connection? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orsium Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 It's totally Cthulu. Deepest Ones... Cthulu runs Threnody and that's why there are no shards there. Everyone is too scared to challenge him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneSpren Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 OK, simple and whimsical theory here, and probably wrong. Shadows For Silence in the Forests of Hell is a cosmere work, one which Sanderson specifically said he wrote in order to highlight the Cosmere afterlife a bit. Or the...kind of afterlife. Whatever it is. Is it possible that he's just being ridiculously blunt, and the truth is in the title? Its the Forests of Hell. Therefore, these forests are the Cosmere's physical manifestation of Hell, the place where bad shardfolk go from all over the cosmere. It's too simplistic, but knowing Sanderson's habit for putting the truth in obvious places...I find it hard to let go. More importantly, I like the idea of trying to understand what this says about the cosmere afterlife by starting with this assumption. Instead of trying to figure out how this ties into the Cosmere afterlife by examining the shades' actions, let's examine their actions with the assumption that these are the shades in hell... I think we had a WoB that Braize was Cosmere hell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 I think we had a WoB that Braize was Cosmere hell. Roshar hell, I believe. I don't believe the Cosmere has a hell, per se. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARITA Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Cthulhu gets mad when you spell his name wrong ..ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn just sayin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riversong Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 I have a (slightly grim) theory. I think everyone on that continent is dead. They just ended up trapped in the cognitive realm. "The Evil" was just death. They end up perceiving the world differently in order to keep themselves sane (or some form of illusion is at work). There was some sort of blockage keeping them from getting to the spiritual realm. Once people realize they are dead, they go insane, and in order to maintain the illusion, people perceive them as "shades". The shades are trying to get others to realize they are dead and help them clear the blockage (or something along those lines). The only issue is, they can't see anyone unless they break the Simple Rules. When they see someone, they try to talk to them, but end up killing them (possibly sending them to the Spiritual Realm). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenod Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 8 hours ago, Riversong said: I have a (slightly grim) theory. I think everyone on that continent is dead. They just ended up trapped in the cognitive realm. "The Evil" was just death. They end up perceiving the world differently in order to keep themselves sane (or some form of illusion is at work). There was some sort of blockage keeping them from getting to the spiritual realm. Once people realize they are dead, they go insane, and in order to maintain the illusion, people perceive them as "shades". The shades are trying to get others to realize they are dead and help them clear the blockage (or something along those lines). The only issue is, they can't see anyone unless they break the Simple Rules. When they see someone, they try to talk to them, but end up killing them (possibly sending them to the Spiritual Realm). If that was the case, it would have been said in the Threnody essay in AU. According to the essay the planet still has a form of perpendicularities, and there are worldhoppers from Threnody (Nazh). If everybody in there was already dead then worldhoppers probably wouldn't be able to exist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 Yeah, Nazh pretty much shoots down the idea, interesting as it is. He even mentions in his Secret History appearance that one could choose to become a Shade, at least at some point in Threnody's past. And there's indications that he uses Shades to perform his 'grumpy James Bond' stunts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 19 hours ago, Weltall said: Yeah, Nazh pretty much shoots down the idea, interesting as it is. He even mentions in his Secret History appearance that one could choose to become a Shade, at least at some point in Threnody's past. And there's indications that he uses Shades to perform his 'grumpy James Bond' stunts. Acutally he says "Shadow" not "Shade" so He probably doesn't talk about become a Shade (a subset of Cognitive Shadow) but a general Cognitive Shadow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 6 hours ago, Yata said: Acutally he says "Shadow" not "Shade" so He probably doesn't talk about become a Shade (a subset of Cognitive Shadow) but a general Cognitive Shadow. I'm not sure it's a distinction with a difference in this case. He uses 'Shadows' as an oath, shade and shadow are derived from the same root, the book that introduced Threnody and is all about the Shades is called Shadows for Silence... and we have two sources implying that Nazh uses Shades in some way But whether you think he was talking about a Shade specifically or a Cognitive Shadow more generally, he's explicit that it's something you could do deliberately, with attendant rituals. That should extend to Shades as well as more self-aware manifestations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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