Kaymyth Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 17 hours ago, Darkness Ascendant said: @Kaymyth always storming amazes me whenever I read all the awesome stuff you do Aw. You're gonna make me blush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Ascendant Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Kaymyth said: Aw. You're gonna make me blush. *pulls out clipboard and stares intently Let's see if there are any blushspren around here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 After @Erunion directed me here from my thread, I've read a pretty good chunk of this post and figured I'd share my take. I was raised in a very religious family. We were non-denominational Christians, but that's... Misleading. We nearly moved to the Czech Republic (still Czechoslovakia then) as missionaries. At 13, my family discovered messianic Judaism. For those who don't know what that is it's easiest to describe as a hybrid religion of Judaism and Christianity. They believe that Jesus (Yeshua) came and died for our sins. In doing so he fulfilled the Abrahamic law laid out in the Old Testament, but that he did not do away with it. So we followed the Tenants of Judaism, while believing that Jesus came and allowed us to be saved. My family viewed it as, in serving God, we should attempt to follow the rules that were laid down, knowing that Jesus came to ensure our entrance into heaven, but just because we were forgiven, didn't mean that breaking the old law was not sinning. Amidst this point, having already begun questioning what I saw as inconsistencies... I became agnostic. I studied various religions lightly and was intrigued by the philosophies of Eastern Religions especially, but science spoke to me more truly and eventually I realized that the agnostic label no longer applied. I didn't believe that there was some greater power out there. In general, having explored the beliefs of many different religions and peoples, I've realized that Religion in and of itself is not a good or bad thing. It's all in what it's used for. There are hypocrites and liars in every faith and lack thereof, just as there are wonderfully kind and giving and honest people in all of them. People should be judged by their actions and not their chosen belief structures. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 I'm catholic (in Sweden, which is fun, since we are one of the most secular countries in the world). I was raised that way, and I'm pretty sure I will stay catholic for the rest of my life as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammanas Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said: I'm catholic (in Sweden, which is fun, since we are one of the most secular countries in the world). I was raised that way, and I'm pretty sure I will stay catholic for the rest of my life as well. Perhaps you, or anyone really, could answer a Catholic question for me? I have tried to ask my catholic friends, but I have only about 5 of them and they are not really into their religion and they don't know the answer. So are all catholics encouraged to find a sub-sect of catholicism in additional to being a regular catholic? I know that some are Jesuits /Opus Dei etc in addition to the main religion. I have been curious about this for awhile and cannot phrase the question correctly enough for it to yield search engine results. Edited July 3, 2017 by Ammanas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, Ammanas said: Perhaps you, or anyone really, could answer a Catholic question for me? I have tried to ask my catholic friends, but I have only about 5 of them and they are not really into their religion and they don't know the answer. So are all catholics encouraged to find a sub-sect of catholicism in additional to being a regular catholic? I know that some are Jesuits /Opus Dei etc in addition to the main religion. I have been curious about this for awhile and cannot phrase the question correctly enough for it to yield search engine results. I would say no to that. I have been in church for my soon to be 18-year old life, and I have never heard of that before. There are different orders (I think that is the english name for them) and if you want, you can join one of them, but it is not in any way necessary. Most catholics I know are just catholics, and nothing more, as far as I'm aware. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammanas Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 @Toaster Retribution One follow up question. Have you given any thought of joining any of these orders. If so which one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 22 minutes ago, Ammanas said: @Toaster Retribution One follow up question. Have you given any thought of joining any of these orders. If so which one? I am pretty sure that all of them require celibacy (again, I hope this is the correct english word), and I think I would prefer having a family :-) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 55 minutes ago, Silverblade5 said: Is it odd that I only just learned that check deposits could be done with an ATM? I think you may have intended this for a different thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverblade5 Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Just now, Calderis said: I think you may have intended this for a different thread. That is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Ammanas said: Perhaps you, or anyone really, could answer a Catholic question for me? I have tried to ask my catholic friends, but I have only about 5 of them and they are not really into their religion and they don't know the answer. So are all catholics encouraged to find a sub-sect of catholicism in additional to being a regular catholic? I know that some are Jesuits /Opus Dei etc in addition to the main religion. I have been curious about this for awhile and cannot phrase the question correctly enough for it to yield search engine results. No. There is no such thing as "sub-sect of catholicism". The orders/convents you're refering to (jesuits, dominicanes etc) are composed of priests (there are also corresponding organizations of nuns). Average catholic is not bothered by those things as they have little impact on their life. But for example I find dominicanes to fit better with my tastes (maybe it's just that local ones are cool) so I and my family go to their church which is half a city away. Their priests' sermons are great (but that's rather a matter of a priest mind you). There are also those... I'm not sure of the term and I'm wary of the translation I found "academic ministry" - those are like clubs/communities for students and they are run by specific church (and by extension specific order/convent). It's voluntary and not really popular among the population - you can only be in if you're currently studying, I think. One I am in/was in has about... what, 200 students? I'm not sure I saw all of them. And it's one of the more popular ones. Edited July 3, 2017 by Oversleep 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammanas Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 @Oversleep Thank you for the detailed answer! I was under the impression that these orders had priests, but that ordinary catholics could also join without being a priest in order to further their spiritual development bc the orders emphasize different things and thus a more indidualized path become available for those that want it. It appears by your answer my understanding was incorrect and I appreciate you helping me understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erunion Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 On 7/3/2017 at 2:22 PM, Ammanas said: @Oversleep Thank you for the detailed answer! I was under the impression that these orders had priests, but that ordinary catholics could also join without being a priest in order to further their spiritual development bc the orders emphasize different things and thus a more indidualized path become available for those that want it. It appears by your answer my understanding was incorrect and I appreciate you helping me understand. I think you're thinking of Monastic orders, where the individual would go off to study and embrace a path of living, usually with an eye to being a Priest or a full fledged Monk (or Nun). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammanas Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Erunion said: I think you're thinking of Monastic orders, where the individual would go off to study and embrace a path of living, usually with an eye to being a Priest or a full fledged Monk (or Nun). Evidently I was all sorts of confused! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenion Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 @CalderisJust going to drop in a good old-fashioned AMEN! Okay, so I've got a question for the Catholics here. So you believe that the bread and wine becomes the literal flesh and blood of Christ, right? At what point does the bread and wine make the transition from what it was to what it becomes? When it is blessed, or eaten, or inside the body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erunion Posted July 9, 2017 Report Share Posted July 9, 2017 49 minutes ago, Ammanas said: Evidently I was all sorts of confused! No problem The Layman's Catholicism is one big, mostly homogeneous, mass. (The pun was intentional, by the way). The monastic orders are different, and are for those who feel called to a life dedicated to service or solitude. Note - I am a Christian, but not catholic, but I'm pretty sure that's accurate . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mestiv Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 20 hours ago, Elenion said: @CalderisJust going to drop in a good old-fashioned AMEN! Okay, so I've got a question for the Catholics here. So you believe that the bread and wine becomes the literal flesh and blood of Christ, right? At what point does the bread and wine make the transition from what it was to what it becomes? When it is blessed, or eaten, or inside the body? I can't really answer that, but I'll add a question of my own. Are you not disturbed by how close to cannibalism that ritual seems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 16 minutes ago, Mestiv said: I can't really answer that, but I'll add a question of my own. Are you not disturbed by how close to cannibalism that ritual seems? Are you equating humans with a God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 19 minutes ago, Orlion On a Cob said: Are you equating humans with a God? A God wearing the flesh of a human, who then has people eat that "flesh" is still in essence asking those people to consume human flesh. The spirit inhabiting the body may be different, but the body itself isn't. I for one have always found it odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 21 hours ago, Elenion said: At what point does the bread and wine make the transition from what it was to what it becomes? When it is blessed, or eaten, or inside the body? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation I'm not comfortable discussing those things - I can't claim to be knowledgeable neither in theology nor doctrine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Calderis said: A God wearing the flesh of a human, who then has people eat that "flesh" is still in essence asking those people to consume human flesh. The spirit inhabiting the body may be different, but the body itself isn't. I for one have always found it odd. You are conflating "form" with the thing-itself. To Catholics, Jesus is always God. So, he might have the form of Man (not surprising, since Man was created in his image and likeness) but that does not mean he was a man. There will be disagreement on this point within Christendom, but we aren't interested in a review of the various beliefs, correct? The current focus is on Catholicism. Now, with the "form does not equal the thing" on mind, read the following catechism on the Eucharist. Look particularly on how they say it has the appearance of bread and wine, but is not either of those. Notice how they define "appearance" and despair! https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/eucha1a.htm Further research shows how I am wrong. https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/incaa3.htm Edited July 10, 2017 by Orlion On a Cob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 16 minutes ago, Orlion On a Cob said: You are conflating "form" with the thing-itself. To Catholics, Jesus is always God. So, he might have the form of Man (not surprising, since Man was created in his image and likeness) but that does not mean he was a man. There will be disagreement on this point within Christendom, but we aren't interested in a review of the various beliefs, correct? The current focus is on Catholicism. Now, with the "form does not equal the thing" on mind, read the following catechism on the Eucharist. Look particularly on how they say it has the appearance of bread and wine, but is not either of those. Notice how they define "appearance" and despair! I can accept that explanation. I obviously still find it odd, but the chain of reasoning makes sense if you take each individual point as true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 13 minutes ago, Calderis said: I can accept that explanation. I obviously still find it odd, but the chain of reasoning makes sense if you take each individual point as true. Unfortunately, it turns out not to be Catholic doctrine. I've added to my original post, but the terms "human flesh" are in fact attached to Jesus and the Eucharist. If you want to go further down the rabbit hole, here's an article from Catholic Answers that tries to explain why consuming the Eucharist is not cannibalism: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/are-catholics-cannibals 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hood Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 Wow! Just 2 Hindus here. The second one being yours truly. Anyway, who is the first one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erunion Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Transubstantiation is always something that I find... interesting... about traditional Catholicism. In my practice, the bread and wine are merely considered symbols - representations of the being of Christ, but not the substance thereof. We 'do this in remembrance of Him' - a reminder and an embracement of Christ's death (and ultimately His resurrection). The wine symbolizes His blood (shed for us), the bread His body (broken for us). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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