Hazekiller Round

[Turos]

You are an inventor, or friend of an inventor, who has taken on a very lucrative contract to develop a new hazekiller round for guns in the Alloy of Law era Scadrial. What new projectile would you develop and how would it work? What allomancy would it be effective against?

 

Against Coinshots and Lurchers:

 

Powder Rounds - A bullet that explodes into metal dust shortly after leaving the barrel. Meant for close range, the cloud of wispy materials is mixed with fine metal dust. The wisps keep the dust floating for a while, creating hundreds of blue lines to pop up in the sight of an allomancer burning steel or iron. Works great for distractions and confusion.

 

 

[Curious Anamaximder]

Bloodmaker rounds: poisoned with sharp edges it takes a lot to heal from them.

[Citizen Grey]

Special Tineye rounds with holes cut into the sides acting as whistles.

 

Guns made with square barrels to fire matching bullets for taking out either Bloodmakers or Pewterarms, the edges would create ragged wounds that are hard to heal from or ignore. Back in the nineteenth century a few guns like this were actually made, they were very lethal but not very accurate at longer ranges,

[Rasha]

To counter Lurchers and Coinshots :

 

Bullets with a body of iron or steel. Something metalic that the Allomancer can see and manipulate. And a detachable tip made of aluminium. Fire at a Coinshot : he will push the bullet, thinking he is safe but he will still be harmed by the tip that would have enough momentum to carry on its trajectory.

All in all its just a remake of Vin's trick with the Inquisitor and the Obsidien arrows with metal rings. I'm surprised Brandon didn't use that one again.

 

You can apply the same principle to grenades : a body made of aluminium and the pin made of iron. Are we limitated to guns or can we go off an a tangeant and create something a bit more funny ?

[Citizen Grey]

To counter Lurchers and Coinshots :

 

Bullets with a body of iron or steel. Something metalic that the Allomancer can see and manipulate. And a detachable tip made of aluminium. Fire at a Coinshot : he will push the bullet, thinking he is safe but he will still be harmed by the tip that would have enough momentum to carry on its trajectory.

All in all its just a remake of Vin's trick with the Inquisitor and the Obsidien arrows with metal rings. I'm surprised Brandon didn't use that one again.

 

 

Actually in Alloy of Law a character named Ranette made bullets exactly like what you described, only she used ceramic tips, which would be cheaper and eliminate the need for all the metallurgical research needed to get a strong aluminum alloy. That was actually a pretty important point in the book, until then nobody knew of any aluminum alloys that were durable enough for guns and bullets but still inert to Allomancy.

[Rasha]

My bad. I read that book so long ago that i totally forgot that part.

[dyring]

Wooden bullets would work vs Lurchers and Coinshots on short ranges, say 10 meters or so.

 

The blanks of many automatic rifles(the one I used in my military service was atleast) are made out of wood, then there is a... protector(dont know english name for it;)) that is screwed onto the front of the rifle, basically making it into sawdust. With that protector, it made quite a nasty work out of a pumpkin it was tested on. Dont recall the range that was used in that thou(it was 15 years ago ffs;))

 

surely someone can explain that better then me, but either way, on shorter ranges it should be alot cheaper then aluminium, but equally efficent against coinshots and lurchers.

[Kobold King]

Regular bullets. We can advertise them as the perfect weapon against Gnats!

 

...

I should probably leave the designing to my betters.

[Edgedancer]

Actually in Alloy of Law a character named Ranette made bullets exactly like what you described, only she used ceramic tips, which would be cheaper and eliminate the need for all the metallurgical research needed to get a strong aluminum alloy. That was actually a pretty important point in the book, until then nobody knew of any aluminum alloys that were durable enough for guns and bullets but still inert to Allomancy.

Actually, there's a WOB of aluminum not creating an Atium shadow, so while ceramic is perfectly suitable against normal Allomancy an aluminum bullet would also work against those that can use Atium.

 

 

Interview: Mar 6th, 2014

WoR Signing Report - Bartbug (Verbatim)

Question

Would aluminum give an atium shadow? Like if someone threw an aluminum spear?

Brandon Sanderson

The aluminum would not give an atium shadow. Good question.

[Unhinged]

You can apply the same principle to grenades : a body made of aluminium and the pin made of iron. Are we limitated to guns or can we go off an a tangeant and create something a bit more funny ?

 

How to use grenades in mistborn 

 

step 1 get in fight

 

step 2 run away leaving crate of grenades behind 

 

step 3 wait till enemy picks up grenades 

 

step 4 have lurcher pull pins from safe distance

 

step 5 enjoy show. 

[TheSilverDragon]

A bow with aluminium, wooden, or carbon fiber arrows. That would work pretty well. You could add metal rings to them like Vin did.

Heat seeking missiles for a steel ferring. They could dove them, but eventually they would catch up.

[Turos]

Are we limitated to guns or can we go off an a tangeant and create something a bit more funny ?

 

Ooh. Now I'm curious. What other contraptions do you have in mind?

[Shadowspren]

Wooden bullets would work vs Lurchers and Coinshots on short ranges, say 10 meters or so.

 

Everyone is thinking of guns and such. But along the lines of wooden weapons, I think that either a spear or a boomerang would work. They could either be completely wood or could be capped/tipped with aluminum to cause more damage.

The could both me used at both short and long distance if used correctly, the spear would work against a bloodmaker because it could be stuck in them and make it impossible to heal until it was removed. The same thought could be applied to a Thug as they would ignore the wound but it could do some major damage. and because it is wood it would work against a coinshot or lurcher. And would also be invisible to atium...

The boomerang, if used right, could potentially cause major blunt force trama to anyone, especially with a Thug... strong blunt force might help to weaken one. Invisible to allomancy, and most important would be the surprise factor... nobody would know what to do with it. And all of a sudden everyone is dead. 

Downside would be that you could only throw either once before having to switch weapons. And they are quite primitive, but like I said the surprise factor might help. Also, if I remember right, Hazekillers originally used spears as seen when Kelsier steals the Atium. 

[Xaladin]

Ceramic bullets for Coinshots, Lurchers.

 

Bullets with poison for Bloodmakers?

 

Remote-control bullets?

 

See the link in my signature for more details.

[Voidus]

Everyone is thinking of guns and such. But along the lines of wooden weapons, I think that either a spear or a boomerang would work. They could either be completely wood or could be capped/tipped with aluminum to cause more damage.

The could both me used at both short and long distance if used correctly, the spear would work against a bloodmaker because it could be stuck in them and make it impossible to heal until it was removed. The same thought could be applied to a Thug as they would ignore the wound but it could do some major damage. and because it is wood it would work against a coinshot or lurcher. And would also be invisible to atium...

The boomerang, if used right, could potentially cause major blunt force trama to anyone, especially with a Thug... strong blunt force might help to weaken one. Invisible to allomancy, and most important would be the surprise factor... nobody would know what to do with it. And all of a sudden everyone is dead. 

Downside would be that you could only throw either once before having to switch weapons. And they are quite primitive, but like I said the surprise factor might help. Also, if I remember right, Hazekillers originally used spears as seen when Kelsier steals the Atium. 

Well maybe but remember that Hazekillers themselves aren't allomancers so if you're fighting a misting with a boomerang or spear they can just shoot you with a regular gun pretty easily.

Also wood does still have Atium shadows.

For my part I'm a big fan of chemical weapons, good old mustard gas would incapacitate pretty much any metalborn other than a bloodmaker and it'd take out a fair chunk of health.

[Rasha]

Ooh. Now I'm curious. What other contraptions do you have in mind?

 

For a start, chemicals would be great. I assume that in a era like Allow of Law (which is similar to our own Industrial Revolution), chemicals are known.

You could do arrows with vials instead of arrowheads. Fill the vial with something nasty, and let it fly and shatter. You could even be craftier and make different compartiments in the vials, each compartiment would be filled with solutons that would be harmless alone but deadly once combined. Think one compartiment of solid sodium and one of water for exemple.

 

Grenadoes with mustard gas could be great. It's not used anymore here, but on Scadrial, there is no laws against that kind of thing. Grenadoes with poisoned shrapnel, if it's possible. I don't know what the heat of the explosion would do to the poison though.

 

We don't know if cannons exist on Scadrial. It would be hard to hide that quantitiy of metal to an Allomancer though, and that's a huge liability. The manning staff would be too vulnerable to pushes and pulls on the cannon. That's too bad, it could have been funny to devise useful shrapnels.

 

Do we know what happen to shrapnel or a grenado thrown near or to a Time Bubble ?

 

Everyone is thinking of guns and such. But along the lines of wooden weapons, I think that either a spear or a boomerang would work. They could either be completely wood or could be capped/tipped with aluminum to cause more damage.

The could both me used at both short and long distance if used correctly, the spear would work against a bloodmaker because it could be stuck in them and make it impossible to heal until it was removed. The same thought could be applied to a Thug as they would ignore the wound but it could do some major damage. and because it is wood it would work against a coinshot or lurcher. And would also be invisible to atium...

The boomerang, if used right, could potentially cause major blunt force trama to anyone, especially with a Thug... strong blunt force might help to weaken one. Invisible to allomancy, and most important would be the surprise factor... nobody would know what to do with it. And all of a sudden everyone is dead. 

Downside would be that you could only throw either once before having to switch weapons. And they are quite primitive, but like I said the surprise factor might help. Also, if I remember right, Hazekillers originally used spears as seen when Kelsier steals the Atium. 

 

A spear needs a tip to be effective. A wooden spear without tip wouldn't stick in a Bloodmaker or a thug, and would be too brittle to stop a Pweterarm. That's why Hazekillers in the first trilogy didn't use wooden spears, but they used sorts of woodens staffs. Like quarterstaffs but shorter and thicker.

Wooden boomerangs would be great until your target friend wich is also a Pewterarm picks it up and throw it on you. Guess what ? It doesn't end well

Edited May 7, 2015 by Rasha

[Voidus]

For a start, chemicals would be great. I assume that in a era like Allow of Law (which is similar to our own Industrial Revolution), chemicals are known.

You could do arrows with vials instead of arrowheads. Fill the vial with something nasty, and let it fly and shatter. You could even be craftier and make different compartiments in the vials, each compartiment would be filled with solutons that would be harmless alone but deadly once combined. Think one compartiment of solid sodium and one of water for exemple.

 

Grenadoes with mustard gas could be great. It's not used anymore here, but on Scadrial, there is no laws against that kind of thing. Grenadoes with poisoned shrapnel, if it's possible. I don't know what the heat of the explosion would do to the poison though.

 

We don't know if cannons exist on Scadrial. It would be hard to hide that quantitiy of metal to an Allomancer though, and that's a huge liability. The manning staff would be too vulnerable to pushes and pulls on the cannon. That's too bad, it could have been funny to devise useful shrapnels.

 

Do we know what happen to shrapnel or a grenado thrown near or to a Time Bubble ?

 

 

A spear needs a tip to be effective. A wooden spear without tip wouldn't stick in a Bloodmaker or a thug, and would be too brittle to stop a Pweterarm. That's why Hazekillers in the first trilogy didn't use wooden spears, but they used sorts of woodens staffs. Like quarterstaffs but shorter and thicker.

Wooden boomerangs would be great until your target friend wich is also a Pewterarm picks it up and throw it on you. Guess what ? It doesn't end well

There'd be some deflection for the shrapnel but fire should pass through a time bubble no problem.

[Curious Anamaximder]

Bullets against pewterarms: use hollow, big bullets. Fill the insides with some drug that makes people fall asleep. Even with flared pewter, that would be hard to do.

[natc]

Bullets against pewterarms: use hollow, big bullets. Fill the insides with some drug that makes people fall asleep. Even with flared pewter, that would be hard to do.

Or you could just use blowdarts?

:/

[Citizen Grey]

I'm not sure blowdarts would have much of an effect on a Pewterarm. It would have to be a really strong poison and you would have to get fairly close to use the blowgun. Plus, since Pewterarms are incredibly fast I would rather have a weapon that lets me put a little space between us.

[hoidhunter]

Anti Lurcher - Standard brass jacketed lead hollow point filled with finely powdered lye.  They pull the bullet into their chest plate and immediately get a face full of highly corrosive powder.  

 

Anti coinshot - I think Raynette did a pretty good job with her coinshot rounds...but I've got a few other ideas.

 

Silver bullet (it's not just for werewolves anymore), Hollow point bullet with glass capsule containing acid that is then tipped with a small steel pin.  While it would only work at close range...coinshot pushes on pin at tip of bullet, pin pushes back through acid capsule spraying acid forward.

 

Anti Pewterarm/bloodmaker - Hollowpoint filled with rattlesnake venom

 

Tin eye - extra loud blanks

[Guest]

Anti-Slider: a simple round isn't going to work since they can step out of the way, so I'm going with a specialized gun.

Wide-angle, multi-muzzle shotgun firing ball-bearings. When fired, sends a spread coving an area larger than a Bendalloy bubble, giving the slider nowhere to hide.

(Some of you may recognize this as being inspired by the Colt Defender. I'm thinking bigger barrels, firing scattershot capable of serious hurt)

[natc]

Anti-Slider: a simple round isn't going to work since they can step out of the way, so I'm going with a specialized gun.

Wide-angle, multi-muzzle shotgun firing ball-bearings. When fired, sends a spread coving an area larger than a Bendalloy bubble, giving the slider nowhere to hide.

(Some of you may recognize this as being inspired by the Colt Defender. I'm thinking bigger barrels, firing scattershot capable of serious hurt)

It depends on whether the bubble deflects bullets in a regular and predictable pattern or if it is random.

[Voidus]

Anti Lurcher - Standard brass jacketed lead hollow point filled with finely powdered lye.  They pull the bullet into their chest plate and immediately get a face full of highly corrosive powder.  

 

Anti coinshot - I think Raynette did a pretty good job with her coinshot rounds...but I've got a few other ideas.

 

Silver bullet (it's not just for werewolves anymore), Hollow point bullet with glass capsule containing acid that is then tipped with a small steel pin.  While it would only work at close range...coinshot pushes on pin at tip of bullet, pin pushes back through acid capsule spraying acid forward.

 

Anti Pewterarm/bloodmaker - Hollowpoint filled with rattlesnake venom

 

Tin eye - extra loud blanks

Just out of curiosity, why use silver?

[Guest]

It depends on whether the bubble deflects bullets in a regular and predictable pattern or if it is random.

Nope. The nature of the design is that if a Slider puts up a bubble while I'm firing they will have no "safe spot" inside the bubble that they can move to, and when they drop the bubble they will get hit. (Barring cover)