Hoid's reaction to Shallan

[Stormwalker]

I don't know if it has been remarked before, but Hoids reaction to first seeing Shallan (in one of the flashbacks) seems very interesting:

 

 

A man she did not know sat next to Father with a cup of chilled water in one hand. Tall, slender, and blue-eyed, he had a deep black hair without a hint of impurity and wore clothing the same shade. He glanced at Shallan as she stepped up into the box.

 

The man started, dropping his cup to the table. He caught it with a swift lunge, keeping it from tipping over, then turned to stare at her with a slack jaw.

(WOR Chapter 45, page 522)

 

Now, while it could be just normal Hoid antics, it seems to me like he was genuinely surprised at the sight of her. As there really isn't anything else about her of note at this time, it seems to me that it can only be that Hoid could tell that she was a surgebinder. In which case, how can Hoid tell? Can he tell whether anybody is able to use investiture, or did he just see something specific to surgebinders (maybe he could see pattern, even though he was almost dead)? Moreover, I'm inclined to believe the sight of even a surgebinder shouldn't cause such a reaction. Perhaps Hoid didn't think there were surgebinders around anymore, and Shallan was the first one he saw. I'm not sure what that would mean, but it definitely seems interesting.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Stormwalker

[Curiosity]

If Hoid does have enough breath to have perfect pitch, then he should be able to see when there's a lot of Investiture nearby. Pattern, suppressed or not, is a lot of Investiture. So... Maybe he saw that and was surprised?

[Dellexe]

At this point, Hoid is an Allomancer, correct? 
Perhaps he had noticed the investiture with Bronze, and then was so surprised because he didn't expect to find it in a small girl. 

Or perhaps he perceived the enhanced amount of Investiture with Life-Sense, which he should be sensitive to considering his amount of Breath. 

[StormingTexan]

If Hoid does have enough breath to have perfect pitch, then he should be able to see when there's a lot of Investiture nearby. Pattern, suppressed or not, is a lot of Investiture. So... Maybe he saw that and was surprised?

 

Yep just like seeing someones BioChromatic Aura he saw her or Pattern's Stormlight "Aura". 

 

Good catch never really thought about that scene. 

[Stormwalker]

If Hoid does have enough breath to have perfect pitch, then he should be able to see when there's a lot of Investiture nearby. Pattern, suppressed or not, is a lot of Investiture. So... Maybe he saw that and was surprised?

 

That might well be it. Although pattern is really just another spren. Does he really have more investiiture than any other spren? It isn't like Hoid had been around her long enough to know that pattern is constantly with her (if indeed he is). Moreover, as far as I can tell, she isn't surgebinding at this time, so I don't think she she would have extra investiture herself either. I was hoping it might have something to do with how Hoid always knows where to be (which must have predated him getting Breath). Perhaps some kind of interaction with the spiritual realm.

 

As for being surprised to find investiture in a small girl, I wouldn't think that really adds to the surprise. Allomancy is genetic, so there must be kids with Allomantic abilities on Scadrial, and so kids with investiture/powers shouldn't be that odd. Shallan is 14 (I believe) at this time, so it isn't like she's really young, anyway.

[emilylime]

I just reread this scene the other day and wondered the exact thing. Doesn't Hoid have a bit of Foresight? Would that have something to do with it, do you think?

[Wyndrunner]

I also think it's really interesting how Hoid reacts the second time he sees her.

 

 

Wit cut off as Shallan lunged at him. Kaladin dropped to the ground, reaching for his side knife, then hesitated as Shallan grabbed Wit in an embrace, her head against his chest, her eyes squeezed shut.

Kaladin took his hand off his knife, raising an eyebrow at Wit, who looked completely flabbergasted. He stood with his arms at his sides, as if he didn't know what to do with them.

WoR Chapter 55 pg. 641

[Voidus]

Well if he knew what the KR coming back meant it would make sense to be surprised at her.

[Arook]

At this point, Hoid is an Allomancer, correct? 

Perhaps he had noticed the investiture with Bronze, and then was so surprised because he didn't expect to find it in a small girl. 

Or perhaps he perceived the enhanced amount of Investiture with Life-Sense, which he should be sensitive to considering his amount of Breath. 

 

I believe the WoB is that hoid did not eat the bead of laresium so i do not believe that he is an allowmancer nor do I think that would allow him to sense anything from her. It is possible that he has the breath needed to see something different or even be able to see a change in her SDNA for some other reason.

[natc]

Well, he's been chugging powder in the Shallan flashback and her brother was almost Soothed in the next scene.

Who knows what he could do without eating the bead.

The changes to her SDNA should be minimal, since her eyes are seemingly already too light to change, and the only other difference is the huge crack that doesn't signify anything by itself.

Edited April 25, 2015 by natc

[Xaladin]

For some reason, I think Hoid already knew about Shallan before this point. Perhaps this is because he was ready to do some impressive stuff for her just a couple hours later as though he knew her personally?

[Voidus]

I believe the WoB is that hoid did not eat the bead of laresium so i do not believe that he is an allowmancer nor do I think that would allow him to sense anything from her. It is possible that he has the breath needed to see something different or even be able to see a change in her SDNA for some other reason.

Most people still think he's an Allomancer WoB is that he took the Atium in the first place because he wanted to become an Allomancer so I doubt he would have just given up. Plus there's Shallans flashback.

 

 

 

QUESTION

Has Hoid used his Lerasium Bead for Feruchemy?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Hoid got the bead originally because he wanted to become an Allomancer.

 

 

HEROWANNABE

Would you answer if Hoid used it for Feruchemy?

BRANDON SANDERSON

His bead? Hoid’s bead was—He originally got it because he wanted to be an Allomancer.

[dyring]

Question is, just how much Lerasium is needed to become an allomancer? Maybe he ate half of it;)

 

Or maybe he figured out how to use the metallic arts without actually eating it, investiture is investiture I guess, but still seems unlikely.

[natc]

It's not how much you need to become one, but how powerful you would be if you do. The whole bead is best for maximum effect, at least assuming you don't just burn more than one.

Though with all the powers he presumably has he might be pretty powerful at the baseline and just needs to make a connection to Preservation. Being snapped beforehand is not farfetched when it's Hoid. Though the connection could potentially be hacked . . .

Huh. Who knows if he actually needs to burn it.

[Arthur of York]

I don't know if it has been remarked before, but Hoids reaction to first seeing Shallan (in one of the flashbacks) seems very interesting:

 

(WOR Chapter 45, page 522)

 

Now, while it could be just normal Hoid antics, it seems to me like he was genuinely surprised at the sight of her. 

 

Whilst I agree that there did seem to be this element of surprise, I am not convinced he was. I rather think that Hoid was aware of Shallan and was there to 'check her out' so to speak. His purpose for being there isn't clearly stated except that he carried a message from her Brother which doesn't quite fit with me as the real reason - Hoid a messenger for Helaran? I don't think so.

[Patrick Star]

I think he saw Pattern, or at least pattern's investiture.

 

We know that Hoid worldhops in weird ways.  It's possible that he thought that he had more time to prepare, saw Shallan, then thought "Oh crap.  There's a protoradiant here.  I can't believe it's ALREADY time for the last desolation.  I really should have set my alarm clock to five minutes early!"

[WitSpren]

From the Jasna/Wit final WoR POV, it is obvious that Hoid is somehow in contact with the Spren world.    Enough so that he knew where she would Else Call to and knew that she was causing trouble (very demanding) on the other side.

 

From the Hoid Quote:  "He gave me only a brief message for your father, and that only because I mentioned I would be traveling this direction"

 

It seems clear to me that he came to Shallan's city in search of a Surgebinder that the Spren had told him of.   It was not until he saw her (and was surprised/dropped his glass) that he realized that he had actually found her and unexpectedly found her.

 

I agree that he can obviously somehow see surgebinders.    Since he drank the powders  after he displayed surprise, I think that it was not Allomancy that he uses to see them.     He also obviously sees that Kal is a surgebinder.

 

[natc]

Vasher can tell something is up too. You really just need to have worked with investiture long enough and maybe have a bit of Lifesense.

He shows up to important places before anything happens there on a regular basis, so finding Jasnah wouldn't be hard.

[Arook]

Brandon Sanderson is very careful with his answers if hoid wanted to become an allowmancer that does not mean he did and I thought the item he was keeping safe mentioned in the letter was the lerasium. It is possible he shaved a bit off to be able to use allowmancy.

I agree with the fact that maybe he saw pattern he might have ability similar to rock and can see spren who knows what he can do with shadesmar

[CHOUTAGOD]

Maybe Shallan reminded him of someone.

[kaellok]

Look, if I had heard rumor that there was someone capable of wielding the forces that govern how the universe works (ie, Surges), I'd be surprised as hell to learn that person was a child. 

 

We know that Hoid probably has at least the Fifth Heightening from Breath, which means he can sense Investiture in other people--like Shallan and Pattern.  There's also a WoB out there that it's possible to use one magic-system to detect people from others, although it may not be exact/perfect/easy (and that may be because a Seeker is only trained to look for specific types/kinds of pulses, if that, while they are burning Bronze, and so they may not think to notice what someone holding Stormlight would 'feel' like.)

 

Hoid's surprise at their second meeting is clearly because he was not expecting to be glomped by Shallan.  

 

Alternative theory is that Hoid tends to know what needs to be done, and be in place to be able to do it (that's actually not the theory-part.)  But, for whatever reason, he hasn't actually seen or noticed Shallan at all except for when they cross paths in person; no fore-warning, when he's used to substantial foresight, can have that kind of reaction.  Or maybe it's because her Lightweaving is so damned similar to what he's used to from Yolen.  I still think it's the first one, though, of shock at how bloody young she was.

[kari-no-sugata]

Hoid has a few interesting lines in this chapter:

I did not expect to find you here.

 

Note that this statement is a (mild) expression of surprise. So this could possibly be a direct hint as to what surprised Hoid when he first saw Shallan.

 

Shallan is confused by this odd statement, unsurprisingly. I think Hoid is really making this comment to himself and is more like "I did not expect to find a proto-Radiant here". If that's correct it's interesting that he says "here" rather than "now", which somewhat implies that he would not be surprised to find a proto-Radiant in general even though they're been gone for ~1500 years.
 

It would be interesting to know if Hoid has met Jasnah since she bonded Ivory... or any other proto-Radiants, though from what we currently know, at the time this flashback takes place, Shallan and Jasnah are the only known proto-Radiants.

 

“I see,” the messenger said softly. “You do not yet understand the nature of lies. I had that trouble myself, long ago. The Shards here are very strict. You will have to see the truth, child, before you can expand upon it. Just as a man should know the law before he breaks it.”

The interesting thing about this discussion of "lies" and how it related to himself is that it seems highly likely that Hoid has figured out that Shallan is not just a proto-Radiant but specifically a Lightweaver. I suspect the various questions he asked were in order to determine that rather than he could tell immediately... though it's also possible that he knew from the start and instead was trying to determine specific aspects of her personality and maturity.

 

Some general thoughts...

 

Personally, I don't think Hoid would be surprised at encountering someone with a high level of Investiture because he should be used to such things. I suspect that he has met Radiants and/or proto-Radiants in the past and to his eyes they look quite different to someone with simply high levels of Investiture due to the spren bond. I suspect the reason why he was surprised to find someone like Shallan in the middle of the country is that most spren would probably search through cities to find potential Radiants, though I'm sure there's other possibilities. So in short the reason why he was surprised is two-fold : encountering proto-Radiants is rare in general at this time and he specifically did not expect one here. I don't know if he's at all surprised about her age - I don't get the impression that he is.

 

I suspect that the metals Hoid burned were to help him talk to Shallan - eg Sooth her fear, Riot her curiosity etc.

 

I don't think Hoid considered his encounter with Shallan to be particularly important at the time. Or at least, he knew he had other more important things to do which is why he leaves quickly and doesn't return.

[DreamEternal]

Maybe he wasn't surprised to see a radiant, but to see a Lightweaver, since according to Jasnah the Cryptics have an important place in Shadesmarian politcs, and he was used to some less important spren breaking the rules and bonding someone once in a century, but a Cryptic doing this meant that the True Desolation was much closer than he expected

Edited May 3, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[AerionBFII]

I agree!! Maybe he sensed a Kinship with her both being Lightweavers and all.

Yeah he was definitely Soothing/Rioting Shallan, as we know how reserved she was i think she would lack confidence to speak to any stranger, so he played her like a trailmans flute.

[navybrandt]

Random speculation:

Maybe the "I did not expect to find you here." line is foreshadowing that Shallan is actually a reincarnated person from Hoid's past. Hoid knows who she is but Shallan herself doesn't. Not sure how I'd feel about reincarnation being in Brandon's books if that turned out to be true.

 

................

 

Or maybe Shallan is just really attractive and Hoid's surprise was how beautiful she was.