Oct 22nd Trizee The Winter Wars chapter 4

[Trizee]

So, here we are introduced to Inhaken. He won't get more than another one or two chapters in this book, his main purpose is to be a window to what Bezalel is doing. He'll be more important in the sequel.

Tell me what you think!

[Eri]

The theological discussion seems fake, doesn't sound like real people talking. Their arguments seem cliched and very modern. Dialogue lacks emotions — those guys are arguing about existence of God/god like they were discussing weather. I'm just not buying it. Similar but weaker problem is the fake Lord of Light's speech — also doesn't seem that compelling, I do not feel Inhaken's excitement that much.

I think Inhaken and Beloken may deserve some more time (to show their philosophical conflict etc) before the fake Lord of Light shows up. Beloken seems an interesting character (more conflict), I wonder if his PoV wouldn't be better? He got more sympathy from me ­- he's in love and unsure if she loves him, he disagrees with all of his tribe (and, seemingly, with facts)... I like that guy.

[Mandamon]

I got confused at first by the pairing of Kennara and Inahken, and Kennehl and Beloken. Now that I see them side by side, I understand a pattern in naming with the "Ken" tribe, but reading it straight, I was completely confused as to who was with who and which were male.

I'll agree the theological discussion seems superficial, very much a "drink the kool-aid" sort of cult. Of course, the appearance of a "supposed" Bezalel would put an end to the theology conflict if he were real. But that Beloken immediatly denounces him as a fraud leads me to believe these people can think for themselves. If that's the case, then you need to shore up their religion/beliefs so that it's not just a strawman argument.

If these people are only getting one or two chapters in the book, I'd think about using more time to flesh out their beliefs, or replacing them with another character we know to show off Bezalel.

[cjhuitt]

The biggest item to mention for my critique of this chapter (sorry it's a bit late) is that I never got invested in any of the characters. I think it's because there's no tragedy or impending tragedy in the chapter. You have a character that is running with his lovely wife whom everyone admires, having a religious discussion with one of his friends, and is "proven" right in the discussion. At the end of all this, he gains more zeal for his religion and redirected to another goal. There's no pain, and only the slightest bit of drama (since his position in the religious discussion is the proper or accepted one for his tribe).

Besides all that, only the last little bit seems to advance the plot any, and it seems to be in a way that doesn't yet make sense. In fact, this reads to me more like an interlude between sections of the book (such as Brandon's interludes in Way of Kings) than it does part of the main story.

Beloken seems an interesting character (more conflict), I wonder if his PoV wouldn't be better? He got more sympathy from me ­- he's in love and unsure if she loves him, he disagrees with all of his tribe (and, seemingly, with facts)... I like that guy.

If it really needs to be here still, I echo Eri's suggestion that Beloken is probably the better PoV character. He is an outcast from their religion by his own choice, he has doubts about his wife-to-be, and he gets his worldview entirely blown up partway through the chapter.

I got confused at first by the pairing of Kennara and Inahken, and Kennehl and Beloken. Now that I see them side by side, I understand a pattern in naming with the "Ken" tribe, but reading it straight, I was completely confused as to who was with who and which were male.

I'll echo this for emphasis.

Also, I'm going to emphasis in another critique how useful it is for me as a reader to have the PoV character be the first named character in a chapter (or after a scene break). This is especially important when all of the characters are new ones. In this case, it wasn't too bad because we dive into Imhaken's head in the second sentence, but it shouldn't be hard to rearrange the first paragraph to allow this.

In going with the PoV theme from earlier, I also don't think that Inhaken, in the midst of his righteous bloodlust, would notice one of the other non-Fariol men leave the clearing. A suspicious Beloken might, however.

Finally, the word "dauntehrs" scanned too closely to "daughters" for me, so I kept thinking they were going to do a massacre of all the tribe's young women, which didn't sound like the sort of book you were going for. I'm not sure what to suggest on this, but maybe if you italicize the name to show it as a word in their language, that would be enough. Or maybe just don't pay any attention to the crazy guy who reads words that aren't there.

[Trizee]

Thanks for all this!

As for making Beloken the viewpoint charaacter, it's an idea, but my plan was to have someone who seems to have it all, and then take it away from him(later chapters).

I can understand why there seems to be a lack of conflict in the chapter, and I'll try and think of what to do about that. Maybe if I make the theological debate more intense, or have some people who resist Bezalel...

[Eri]

As for making Beloken the viewpoint charaacter, it's an idea, but my plan was to have someone who seems to have it all, and then take it away from him(later chapters).

If their chapters are really rare, and as cjhuitt said more like interludes than chapters, you can probably make one Beloken PoV's interlude, and, after some "regular chapters" where things go wrong for Inaken, have an interlude with Inaken's PoV? I'm not sure if interludes count for the "you shall not have more than 3 PoVs" rule. ;-)

[akoebel]

I'll agree with everyone that the theological discussion didn't sound right. I thought that the idea of having two people discuss religion openly was good, but all of it rang hollow.

Beginning a new chapter with 4 new characters is difficult. At some point, I got confused and had to go back and re-read to know who was whom.

I got a bit annoyed by the chapter's beginning. Everything was 'beautiful', so much that it was sickening. Having a character's thought bubble state 'She's so beautiful, I love her so much' didn't feel like something that someone would actually think. It is also a big tell, so you might want to change that a bit.

The main attraction of the chapter was to see that the bad guy (he's obviously one because he uses big words) is up to something and that he has a plan. If he's impersonating some kind of god, he makes a poor job of it, like he doesn't believe it himself. For instance, he says 'we must even lay down our lives'. What god would say that? He makes it sound like he's like his worshipers. 'you must lay down your lives..' would have been better.

If Innahken is to be a character who loses everything, you need to make him much more interesting. Right, now, he looks like a bad Disney character and seeing him fall would actually please me, which I don't suppose is the effect you're going for.

The last sentence threw me off. It's obviously interesting, but doesn't connect with the character's prior state of mind. It he's in a religious trance, he shouldn't notice anything like that.