Savant Compounding

[Nicrosil]

I believe that Miles is a Savant Compounder, or he's constantly burning metalminds to the point that he's a savant.

Allow me to explain myself. First, we know that Savants are people who by constantly flaring their metals have their physiology changed. Spook became a Savant by the Hero of Ages, and we see interesting abilities: using spectacles, he can see through cloth, he can read lips, and his senses are so keen to the point that he's on par with an atium burner/ninja.

Next, we know that Miles compounds his metal minds constantly. He has thirty-some metal minds, from bracers piercing his skin to slivers of gold hidden in the muscles of his arm. He can recover from wounds remarkably fast; exploding is only a minor inconvenience, and he can't feel pain.

At some point in Alloy of Law (don't know exactly where; I don't have my copy) Wax describes compounding as being 'hard to stop once you've started'. This sounds similar to Spook's experience when his tin supply is taken away. Also, Miles states that he doesn't need to breathe anymore; he would stop his heart if he could. Gold metalminds store health, not breath. Miles also doesn't feel pain. Is he so used to pain he doesn't feel it, or is this an effect of being a savant?

I also recall a quote from Brandon saying something along the lines of compounding working because it tricks Allomancy into thinking the metal your burning is a new metal that releases the Freuchemical charge. So, if metalminds are a 'new' metal, I propose that they can be burned to the point of being a savant; Miles is such a savant.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Nicrosil

[Chaos]

I totally buy this idea.

[Senor Feesh]

Seems completely plausible. Well thought out.

Miles states that he doesn't need to breathe anymore; he would stop his heart if he could. Gold metalminds store health, not breath.

I would surmise the following: if you stop breathing, the lack of oxygen has a detrimental effect of the body, with cells in the brain beginning to die (which is why suffocation can cause brain damage). In Miles' case, he has so much health stored, and due to compounding/savantism can heal so fast, he's undoing the damage so quickly it has no lasting effect.

You could still argue that after too long without breath his muscles would no longer have the oxygen needed function, rendering him helpless, but the power of Feruchemy may be a counter to this (don't really have enough to speculate on).

[Vortaan]

Is there such a thing as Feruchemical savants? I suppose that it'd be hard to find out, since most attributes you can't draw on indefinitely. This is interesting, I wonder what other Feruchemical savants would look like.

[Straff Venture]

Is there such a thing as Feruchemical savants? I suppose that it'd be hard to find out, since most attributes you can't draw on indefinitely. This is interesting, I wonder what other Feruchemical savants would look like.

You might always be either filling or tapping, but you couldn't possible always be tapping feruchemical reserves because you'd need to fill them up in the first place.

[ReaderAt2046]

Very clever. I think this idea makes a lot of sense. It also helps explain why Miles doesn't feel pain (something tapping gold wouldn't do on its own).

[Straff Venture]

Very clever. I think this idea makes a lot of sense. It also helps explain why Miles doesn't feel pain (something tapping gold wouldn't do on its own).

He's said to have "stopped feeling pain long ago". I'm guessing that just means he got used to it after 'dying' so many times.

[Observer]

I always assumed the 'being hard to stop after starting' was because he'd die. TLR aged like nuts when he stopped, so it stands to reason Miles would die very nastily if he did.

[Straff Venture]

I always assumed the 'being hard to stop after starting' was because he'd die. TLR aged like nuts when he stopped, so it stands to reason Miles would die very nastily if he did.

You probably would if you were a thousand years old

[Voidus]

I always assumed the 'being hard to stop after starting' was because he'd die. TLR aged like nuts when he stopped, so it stands to reason Miles would die very nastily if he did.

I think that was more because he was actually 1000's of years old, tapping gold heals you permanently not just while you're tapping it so he wouldn't suddenly have all those wounds.

I thought it would be more because it just became addictive to him, the feeling of constant health.

[Riddlesinthedark]

I think that was more because he was actually 1000's of years old, tapping gold heals you permanently not just while you're tapping it so he wouldn't suddenly have all those wounds.

I thought it would be more because it just became addictive to him, the feeling of constant health.

Yeah, otherwise the Lord Ruler would have regained dozens of wounds and burns, based on the acts that were described to have happened to him.

[Voidus]

Not to mention Miles would have spontaneously exploded all over the place when he tapped out his goldminds.

[Satsuoni]

Well, he is not an Allomantic savant, since compounders don't burn metal constantly, but periodically to refill metalminds. So he is probably, as mentioned above, a Feruchemical savant, the kind a normal feruchemist can't become, from constant attribute tapping. Good idea, though

[Millennium]

Is it actually possible for a Feruchemist to achieve a savant-like condition? It seems that Allomantic savants essentially become physiologically addicted to levels of power greater than is possible for a human to achieve, but at first glance the Feruchemical cycle would seem to prevent this sort of thing. You can only tap power for so long before you have to start storing it again, which prevents Allomantic-style pewter dragging and analogous tricks with other metals.

But how does Compounding affect that? Could you siphon off some of the Compounded power, store it in another metalmind, and then ingest that metalmind to Compound some more? If that were possible, then it might become possible to never go into a pure storage state, and then I could see some sort of Savant-like state.

(Incidentally, the RPG hints that such an effect might indeed be possible, but only by using a Nicrosilmind to store the excess investiture, not by using another metalmind of the type you're Compounding. Then again, the same sentence also states that Feruchemists can benefit from Nicrobursts, so perhaps this should be taken with more than a few grains of salt).

Edited September 24, 2012 by Millennium

[Straff Venture]

I'd be interested to see a Miles equivalent compounder for something other than gold or atium. A pewter or steel compounder would be ridiculously overpowered in combat, though it might be annoying literally crushing everything you ever try to grasp.

[Millennium]

Steel Compounding may not be as good in combat as it sounds, because it makes you faster but not tougher. You could swing a club with great speed, but as soon as you hit something that same force gets applied to the club and your un-enhanced arms, shattering the club if you're lucky and your arms if you aren't. That said, it would be great for getting into (and out of) combat situations. Pewter Compounding, on the other hand, sounds incredibly broken; almost like creating a Koloss without the mental drawbacks.

Cadmium Compounding could be really useful for divers or people who had to go into oxygen-poor environments: not just letting them hold their breath for longer, but slowing down time (in limited areas) to make that breath last even longer.

Duralumin Compounding could make for a scary politician or cult leader.

Would Aluminum Compounding even work?

[Straff Venture]

how to crush the earth? iron compounding

[Observer]

how to crush the earth? iron compounding

Yo Skimmer so heavy, black holes orbit her!

[Voidus]

Duralumin Compounding could make for a scary politician or cult leader.

I remember discussing that a while back, IIRC Duralumin also enhances your feelings for others, can't remember if that was the RPG or WoB.

Steel compounding would have to enhance your durability a bit, otherwise you would crush your own body just from the acceleration.

[Nicrosil]

Pewter Compounding would essentially make someone the Hulk (stretchy shorts not included).

Third trilogy Cadmium Compounders would simplify space travel, as would Bendalloy Compounders.

Electrum Compounders would be scary. I mean, they would constantly be at the emotional peak, like a koloss in a blood frenzy, but with every emotion.

[Straff Venture]

Third trilogy Cadmium Compounders would simplify space travel, as would Bendalloy Compounders.

They'd still need some sort of air to stop you from imploding or your blood from boiling, though.

[Observer]

You'd be able to hold your breath, but you'd still be explosively decompressed. Not very fun.

[Millennium]

Surgebinding might be able to help with that: the Three Lashings are said to be about pressure as well as gravity. As currently revealed, of course, that's cross-system, but we've got either 14 or 15 alloys of Atium (depending on where, or if, Atium counts in its own cycle of metals) that haven't been explored. It's not outside the realm of plausibility that one of them might deal with pressure too.

[Aradel]

Whenever someone mentions cadmium in space, someone else always complains that they'd need a suit or they'd decompress. I've never seen anyone who mentions cadmium in space say they'd be able to spacewalk naked. The suit goes without saying guys, it's the oxygen tanks they don't need.

Also I've had thoughts about Feruchemical savants.

First: constant storing of an attribute may allow your body, mind, or spirit to adjust to limit you've placed on it, (Not without difficulty) making it safe to store a larger amount of the attribute as well as increasing your feruchemical ability, allowing you to store larger amounts at will. The downside is both the general lack of an attribute while storing and when not storing the attribute, their bodies have to compensate for the increased natural attribute without the safty features of feruchemy.

Second: Near-Constant tapping through compounding or nicrosil transfer allows the feruchemist to "stretch" less when tapping large amounts, meaning that more of the attribute is returned to them instead of being consumed in the energy transfer. The detriment being at least the addiction that miles suffered from possibly more I haven't thought of yet.

Both of these techniques, if possible, would match what we know of allomantic savants. Through constant use of their powers, their bodies/spirits/minds become accustomed to the shardic energy allowing them to use larger amounts of shardic energy with relative safety and causing them detriment when the flow of shardic energy stops.

[Millennium]

One of the big differences between Allomancy and Feruchemy is in how exactly Shardic energy is used: in Allomancy it adds to your power, while in Feruchemy it moves your power around at different rates. If we follow the Savant-as-addict model, then the dependency on Allomancy becomes a tolerance to and dependency upon Shardic energy: you have to use it more often, and in larger amounts, and because of the nature of Allomancy, this makes you more powerful.

Translated into the nature of Feruchemy, this would probably involve more drastic swings: you become able to store and tap in larger amounts, but you have to. Your body has built up a tolerance to Shardic energy that means small trickles of power no longer get through, and a dependence on Shardic energy that means you can't stop using Feruchemy without going through withdrawal.

The end result would be that feruchemical Savants are forced to live increasingly on the extremes. An iron Ferring Savant might go between being too light to move around effectively and too heavy to walk on most floors. A zinc Ferring Savant might alternate between genius and idiocy. A tin Ferring Savant would have to spend significant time in near-total sensory deprivation, though outside of that they'd match or even beat tin Misting Savants. Some cases, like gold and atium, are likely to kill a Feruchemist who goes too far. Brass is probably another example: alternating between borderline hypothermia and heatstroke can't be good for the body, and eventually those lines will be crossed. I'd be <i>really</i> interested to see what would happen to a nicrosil Ferring Savant.

The bottom line is that being a Savant isn't really a good thing. You do get some access to greater power, but the price you pay for that is too high to really be worthwhile. The Feruchemical cycle would make this more drastic.

That said, overall I'm pretty skeptical of the Feruchemical Savant concept. Keepers don't seem to be Savants, and if repeatedly storing and tapping the entire accumulated knowledge of the Keepers into copperminds over however many years it takes to train as a Keeper (or to train someone else) isn't enough to make someone a Savant, I'm not sure what could be.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Millennium