Aoibheann Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 I think Brandon has told us how the Oathgates are locked. It struck like lightning this weekend on my re-read. After the Radiants stopped using the Oathgates, the purpose of the plateaus was eventually forgotten and the plateaus (except on the Shattered Plains) were built upon. There are many people and buildings to move, requiring an astronomical (if not infinite) amount of Stormlight. The locking is not intentional. Check out these quotes: Outside the Circle of Memories, they entered one of the covered walkways between monastery buildings, a light rain sprinkling the rooftops. The last leg of the walkways, the sunwalk, gave a wonderful view of Kholinar - at least on a clear day. Evan today, Lhan could see much of the city, as both the temple and the high palace occupied a flat-topped hill. - Words of Radiance, page 893 Now that he saw those pillars from this perspective, he recognized that there was one of them in Kholinar. It made up the dais upon which the palace and royal temple had been built. Shallan suspected that Jasnah had tried to open the Oathgate there; the woman;s notes said that Oathgates to each of the cities were locked tight. - Words of Radiance, page 1070 The plateau hadn't contained the portal. The plateau was the portal. - Words of Radiance, page 1039 ..., activating the Oathgate took a great deal of Stormlight, depending on how many people were brought. Lighting the lamps in the room at the center of the Oathgate was merely the minimum amount needed to start the device - bringing many people partially drained the infused gemstones they carried as well. - Words of Radiance, page 1074 In addition, the travel through the Oathgate had not been as cheap as Shallan had first assumed. Somehow, the trip had drained the majority of the gemstones held by the men and women on the plateau - including Navani's fabrials, cluteched in the hands of engineers and scholars. They had run a few tests. The more people you moved, the more Light was required. - Words of Radiance, page 1048 Shallan has been mostly moving people from the warcamps, we don't know how physical matter affects the amount of Light needed. It's possible that physical matter is unimportant, only the number of "conscious" minds impact Light needs. We may see what happens if/when the palace in Kohlinar is emptied of people. A co-worker of mine pointed out: The Everstorm may take care of these "locks" by scouring the plateaus clear of buildings; inadvertently helping via destruction. Thoughts? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAgain Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 [Lhan and Pai] passed into the Circle of Memories, a round room with ten lamps on the walls, one for each of the ancient Epoch Kingdoms. An eleventh lamp represented the Tranquiline Halls, and a large ceremonial keyhole set into the wall represented the need for ardents to ignore borders, and look only at the hearts of men. . . . or something like that. - Words of Radiance, page 893 This description is nearly identical to that of the chamber Shallan finds in the Shattered Plains. A couple of differences are there is no eleventh lamp in the room in Stormseat, only ten ("The ten lamps faded like closing eyes," WoR 1037) and the eleventh mural depicts Urithiru, though Lhan could be interpreting such a design as the Tranquiline Halls. Additionally, there is mention of obstructions impeding the turning mechanism when Shallan and Adolin turn the blade in the keyhole (WoR 1037). It's possible they've altered/damaged the fabrial with modifications or have simply blocked the wall physically from being turnable. That said, there is a direct reference to Shallan's Blade "unlocking" something within the plateau itself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoibheann Posted March 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Urithiru = Tranquiline Halls? Either way, trying to activate the Kholinar Oathgate would be trying to move the entire palace complex and all inhabitants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Urithiru = Tranquiline Halls? Either way, trying to activate the Kholinar Oathgate would be trying to move the entire palace complex and all inhabitants. The legends speak of retaking the halls, which would be quite redundant if they own the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkum Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 I forget if it was mentioned in the books or not, but I got the impression that there was some sort of failsafe in place to prevent an oathgate from being opened to another that was currently occupied. so the palace, which would be perpetually occupied, would make it impossible to go to kholinar. I feel like this is mentioned towards the end of WoR, but I could also be completely imagining it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I forget if it was mentioned in the books or not, but I got the impression that there was some sort of failsafe in place to prevent an oathgate from being opened to another that was currently occupied. so the palace, which would be perpetually occupied, would make it impossible to go to kholinar. I feel like this is mentioned towards the end of WoR, but I could also be completely imagining it I got the impression that they tried to use the other nine at Urithiru and they didn't work, thus "locked". The question that's been baking my noodle is, will the Windrunner Honorblade be able to unlock them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 The person you are quoting is suggesting that the gate has a failsafe that eliminates the Aon Tia's infamous problem of teleporting you halfway into a wall or another person due to 100% accuracy. With the whole palace and likely other structures built around the gates they won't operate at all. Assuming the failsafe exists, which I'll have to check now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkum Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 The person you are quoting is suggesting that the gate has a failsafe that eliminates the Aon Tia's infamous problem of teleporting you halfway into a wall or another person due to 100% accuracy. With the whole palace and likely other structures built around the gates they won't operate at all. Assuming the failsafe exists, which I'll have to check now.Yea, this. On the other hand, that could just be the assumption I built up in my mind to explain why the gates weren't working. I don't have access to my copy of the book right nnow, so I can't go back and look it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WitSpren Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I brought up the 11th Lamp issue being the lock and the fact that it would take too much stormlight to move all those people and buildings in another thread 4 or 5 months ago in another thread. I also like the idea of the failsafe issue brought up in this thread.. So, my current theory is that the gates were originally locked via the 11th lamp, then after everyone forgot about them/decided that they would never work again, they were built on and lived on which kicked in the overloaded and failsafe blocks. So now, they probably would not work even if the 11th lamp locks were removed. The other oathgates probably have the same issues. Hopefully they will find one or two that can be cleared relatively easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 But who knows what'll happen to the throne with the riots after the ardent's execution. The palace could be destroyed (Or at least turned to rubble). It wouldn't take too much to clear off rubble, even of the palace, in order to obtain teleportation to Urithiru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) But who knows what'll happen to the throne with the riots after the ardent's execution. The palace could be destroyed (Or at least turned to rubble). It wouldn't take too much to clear off rubble, even of the palace, in order to obtain teleportation to Urithiru. I realize this is a bit non-sequitor, but who wants to double-down on the riots being a plan of the Diagram? (With Nergaoul implicitly helping via the Thrill.) More to the point, I don't see the palace being reduced to rubble, but for sure there'd be some destruction. Either way, it would take a while to clear what is likely a very large set of structures off the Kholinar Oathgate. What I really would like to know is if the riots are drawing any of the Unmade to Kholinar. Edited March 5, 2015 by dvoraen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I thought the gates were 'locked' because there suddenly weren't any living blades about, and the lock won't turn if the Shardblade is dead, but I quite like the other ideas in this thread too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I know too little to have an opinion, but just to provide grist for our mill. I think it is Jasnah's notes that mention the Oathgates being locked, confirmed by Shallan's experimentation. At the end of WoR both Jasnah and Shallan have live Shardblades, so the locks may have been tested with live Shardblades. The platform at Stormseat had millennia of crem accumulation and still worked. It is not clear to me that mass or even buildings is the problem. Cognitive identities confuse things, of course. It seems quite possible that there is a specific magical intervention that the Radiants performed to make the Oathgates inoperative. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I don't believe in the lack of stomlight theory simply because if the palace are constructed in the plateau of the oathgate, considering that Alenthi nobility use stormlight as lamps, or to ornate body, and such frivolous display of wealthy, and that most likely Alenthekar Treasury are there stormlight wouldn't be a issue =)=) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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