Realmatics in Relation to Allomancy and Awakening

[RawToast225]

I have come to see that each power has three aspects: a physical one, which can be seen in the creations made by Ruin and Preservation; a spiritual one in the unseen energy that permeates all of the world; and a cognitive one in the minds which controlled that energy.

—Sazed

All things exist in three Realms, Gaotona. Physical, Cognitive, Spiritual. The Physical is what we feel, what is before us. The Cognitive is how an object is viewed and how it views itself. The Spiritual Realm contains an object’s soul— its essence— as well as the ways it is connected to the things and people around it.

—Shai

I have two questions that I hope to address the possible answers of in depth.

1. What realm does Allomancy draw from?

2. What realm does Allomancy affect?

The first question is easier to answer when you consider Hemolergy. (Hemalegic basics pasted in a link below.) When you steal a person's Allomancy, what realms are you really piercing with the Spike? Is it Cognative, Physical, or Spiritual? I find Cognative to be unlikely because it is a place of interpretations instead of power. That leaves the other two Realms.

Physical fact: The spike physically enters a person's body.

Physical speculation: The spike enters a person's body to sap away investiture.

Spiritual speculation: The spike pierces the spirit as well as the body to sap investiture.

Cognative speculation: The spike pierces the cognition* and body to sap investiture.

Realmatic speculation: it pierces all three. (This answer is frustrating to me. It seems like a cheap and easy answer.) (It is to be noted that there is a WoB sort of confirming that all investiture comes from the Spritual realm. I'm sure Moogle can find it for those of you who want it.)

For the second question I will tackle two metals at a time (source for metals listed bellow).

-Steel: (Coinshot) Pushes on Nearby Metals

-Iron: (Lurcher) Pulls on Nearby Metals

Analysis:

My knee jerk reaction to these is that they affect the Physical realm. Then, I started thinking. What if they are Cognative? Suppose the steel allows Allamancers to see where the Cognative shadows of metals are located. It would work that way because everything in Allamancy is metal based, that's why it can't see any other cognitive shadows. Now, what if instead of pulling or pushing on the metals, the Allamancer is convincing the metal to move?

Now, what if the Allamancer is pulling on the spirit of the metals, making its physical representation follow suit?

Tentative conclusions:

Physical- Probably this one. It is actually pulling something in a physical manner without using hands. Plausible.

Cognative- It could be this one, but is probably not. Could be a shortcut to talking to metals in Shadesmar. Improbable.

Spiritual- Probably not this one. It is hard to say. Improbable.

-Pewter: (Thug) Increases Physical Abilities

-Tin: (Tineye) Increases Senses

Analysis:

I will not talk about the Spiritual realm on these. They are clearly either Physical or Cognative or a mix of the two. The reasons they are Physical are obvious. They change the physical state of a body. Now, what of the Cognative realm? Does the body need convincing to enhance itself, like a type of limited Soulcasting?

Tentative conclusions:

Physical- Is definitely in this realm.

Cognative- Might be this one. Is a possibility.

Spiritual- Nope.

-Zinc: (Rioter) Enflames (riots) Emotions

-Brass: (Soother) Dampens (soothes) Emotions

Analysis:

If these metals influence people in the Physical realm, I would think it is manipulation of the metal in the body to release chemicals to enhance or deaden emotions. If it is on a Cognative level, then it is convincing the cognition of a person to change itself to feel differently. It would intemperate that into the Physical realm. If the metals influence the Spiritual realm, then it is changing the emotions of the soul at all three Realmatic levels.

Tentative conclusions:

Physical- Probably this one as an extension.

Cognative- Probably this one as an extension.

Spiritual- Probably this one spreading to the other two.

The hole in the conclusions:

The person being affected by Allomantic pushes and pulls on their emotions can feel them. Maybe the spirit isn't affected, just the cognition and the body. That way, the cognition can intemperate the discrepancy.

-Duralumin: (Duralumin Gnat) Enhances Current Metal Burned

-Aluminum (Aluminum Gnat) Wipes Internal Allomantic Reserves

Analysis:

These two are boring. They just affect the Allomancy, making the invested metals disappear or become stronger.

(See conclusions about where Allamancy comes from)

-Nicrosil: (Nicroburst) Enhances Allomantic Burn of Target

-Chromium: (Leecher) Wipes Allomantic Reserves of Target

Analysis:

These are much less boring than their cousins, but they still do basically the same in how they work.

(See conclusions about where Allamancy comes from)

-Copper: (Smoker) Can Hide Allomantic Pulses

-Bronze: (Seeker) Can Hear Allomantic Pulses

Analysis:

These also have to do with the investiture directly. They detect investiture, but what realm does it happen in? It's not Physical because there is no actual sight clarity or obscurity. So is it in the Cognative or the Spiritual realm? If it is Cognative, then it would be like peeking into or obscuring Shadesmar. If it is Spiritual, then it is looking into or hiding someone's soul. If it is both, then it is a combination.

Tentative conclusions:

Physical- Nope.

Cognative- I find this to be more likely than Spiritual.

Spiritual- This is a bit of a stretch. It would be too OP in my opinion, even if it is limited to investiture sight. It has to do with looking into someone's soul, which seems to be the most private part of a person in the Cosmere open only to some Shards.

-Gold: (Augur) Reveals Your Past Self

-Electrum: (Oracle) Reveals Your Future

Analysis:

This seems to be in the Spiritual realm. It shows a past or future of possibilities instead of realities. Physical and Cognitive realms both deal with realities, but the Spiritual realm seems more fluid.

Tentative conclusions:

Physical- Not likely.

Cognative- Less likely. The stick is a good example of the unlikeliness of it. The Cognative part of a thing only knows what it is, not what it could be or what it was.

Spiritual- Most likely. This realm is a place of ideals. Past and present are most definitely ideas and warnings, respectively.

-Cadmium: (Pulser) Slows Down Time

-Bendalloy: (Slider) Speeds Up Time

Analysis:

These could be all three. It could be that it actually bends time around the person burning the metal. It could also be that it convinces all the cognitions around the burners that time is being manipulated. It cold also be that the spirits do not obey the laws of entropy and can make that power bleed through to the Physical realm with the use of investiture.

Tentative conclusions:

Physical- This is pretty dang likely. Reasons are obvious.

Cognative- Not super likely, but plausible.

Spiritual- Not only is it plausible, but I hope it's true. It would be awesome if spirits don't have to obey the laws of time the same way the Physical realm does.

-Atium: (Seer) Allows sight of other people's future

-Malatium: (?) Allows sight of other people's past

Analysis:

By the same reasons as Gold and Electrum, these seem like Spiritual powers.

(See conclusions of the other metals)

The answers I am to draw from the reasonings above are:

1. Allamancy comes from the Spiritual realm. Again, the WoB trumps my incomplete logic.

2. Allamancy affects all of the realms differently. Again, a cheap answer. I just want say that there is no definite answer leaning toward one realm or another.

I believe I can apply much of the same reasoning to other types of investiture, such as the Aons, forgeries, and Breaths. The fact is, we don't know enough to draw concrete conclusions about how these affect which realm. I am going to try it with Awakening anyway.

Breaths:

(links to basics below)

-The First Heightening:

(Aura Recognition) grants a person the ability to see the Breath auras of others instinctively. This allows them to judge roughly how many Breaths the person contains and the general health of that Breath.

Analysis: This acts like a bronze and raises many of same questions. What realm is it detecting? The WoB I mentioned earlier suggests that it detects changes in the Physical realm made by the Spiritual realm. But what if it's detecting the interpretation made by the Cognative realm as well?

Tentative conclusions:

Physical- Not this one directly

Cognative- Probably not this one, but it could be

Spiritual- It is probably this one based of the WoB and the conclusions for bronze

-The Second Heightening:

(Perfect Pitch) grants perfect pitch to those who receive it.

Analysis:

Does this make the ear better or does it grant the cognition a better ability to intemperate truths and ideals? I don't think it has to do with the Spiritual realm because it doesn't change anything directly, just broadens the understanding of the person with the Second Heightening. Remember that the Spiritual realm is a realm of ideals, and the Cognative realm is the realm that interprets the ideals. The Physical realm is the one that applies the realms.

Tentative conclusions:

Physical- Could be this one.

Cognative- It's most likely this.

Spiritual- I really don't see it being Spiritual in nature.

-The Third Heightening:

While each gained Breath leads a person to greater appreciation of colors, it isn't until one reaches the Third Heightening (Perfect Color Recognition) that one can instantly and instinctively determine exact shades of colors and their hue harmonics.

Analysis:

This seems similar to the Second Heightening. It probably is an expansion of the cognition by the Spiritual realm that is put into practice through the body. See conclusions above.

-The Fourth Heightening:

At the Fourth Heightening (Perfect Life Sense), an Awakener's life sense achieves its maximum strength.

See First Heightening.

-The Fifth Heightening:

At the Fifth Heightening (Agelessness), an Awakener's resistance to aging and disease reaches its maximum strength. These persons are immune to most toxins, including the effects of alcohol, and most physical ailments. (Such as headaches, diseases, and organ failure.) The person no longer ages, and becomes functionally immortal.

Note: Returned achieve the Fifth Heightening by virtue of their Breath. They do not actually receive two thousand Breaths when they Return, but instead receive a single, powerful Breath, which brings with it the powers of the first five Heightenings.

Analysis:

This Heightening is interesting. It doesn't grant more understanding, but it grants a Physical trait. I don't think it changes the spirit unless you are Returned and have this Heightening. More fascinating, it seems like the Returned are granted a stronger spirit by the virtue of being Returned. Maybe it takes a lot of investiture, and therefore a stronger spirit, to come back to life.

Tentative conclusions:

Physical- I believe it mostly affects this realm.

Cognitive- This realm seems to be untouched by this Heightening.

Spiritual-This realm probably isn't affected by this Heightening.

-The Sixth Heightening:

All persons of the Sixth Heightening (Instinctive Awakening) and above immediately understand and can use basic Awakening Commands without training or practice. More difficult commands are easier for them to master and to discover.

Analysis: This is the first unclear Heightening. All the others have been pretty straightforward, but this one is different. It explains the understanding of the cognition and gives the person with the Heightening a greater command over Awakening. What happens when the Sixth Heightening is gone? Do you lose all the knowledge you've gained, or do you retain the knowledge, but your progress stops going as quickly? That is an important distinction. If you lose all the knowledge you've gained, then the change is in the Physical realm, the information being stored in your brain and locked away when the power is gone. If you lose the momentum of your instincts, then it the change is a Cognative one, storing the information in the cognition and continuing to work on it even though the power is gone. Knowledge is tricky when it's granted by investiture. Is your spirit understanding more of the truth, or is your cognition or body more able to intemperate the truth?

Tentative conclusions:

Physical- Could be affecting this realm.

Cognitive- Could be affecting this realm.

Spiritual- Could be affecting this realm.

-The Seventh Heightening:

Those few persons who have reached the Seventh Heightening (Invested Breath Recognition) gain the ability to recognize the auras of objects, and can tell when something has been Invested with Breath via Awakening.

Note: Reaching above the Sixth Heightening is incredibly rare, and so few people understand the powers of the Seventh Heightening and above. Very little research has been done.

Analysis: See First Heightening

-The Eighth Heightening:

Any persons of the Eighth Heightening (Command Breaking) or more gain the ability to override Commands in other Invested objects, including Lifeless. This requires concentration and leaves the Awakener exhausted.

Note: The only known people ever to reach the Eighth Heightening and above are the Hallandren God Kings.

Analysis: Does Awakening command the spirit of an object, or just the cognition or body of an object? That is an important distinction that has to be known before I will try to draw any conclusions about this Heightening.

-The Ninth Heightening:

Persons of the Ninth Heightening (Greater Awakening) are reportedly able to Awaken stone and steel, though doing so requires large Investitures of Breath and specialized Commands. This ability has not been studied or confirmed.

Persons of the Ninth Heightening (Audible Command) also gain the ability to Awaken objects that they are not physically touching, but that are within the sound of their voice.

I will not analyze this or the next Heightening because there are too many variables in play for each Heightening. It would just be too difficult to discern what each Heightening affects because it does too much. Likely, they affect all realms in completely different ways.

-The Tenth Heightening:

At the Tenth Heightening (Color Distortion), an Awakener gains the natural and intrinsic ability to bend light around white objects, creating colors from them as if from a prism.

Awakeners of the Tenth Heightening (Perfect Invocation) can draw more color from the objects they use to fuel their art. This leaves objects drained to white, rather than grey.

A third ability granted is the ability to give commands mentally (Mental Command), although this is said to be difficult to learn. This is the ability that allowed the God Kings of Hallandren to pass on their breaths after their tongues were removed.[1]

There are rumors of other powers granted by the Tenth Heightening which are not understood or have not been made known by those who have achieved it.

For Awakening, I am forced to draw the same conclusions I did above. Investiture comes from the Spiritual realm and affects all of the realms, just in different ways.

The connections and conclusions made in this theory are all conjecture. I'm no expert on Realmatics, but I hope I have done a good job compiling and dissecting where investiture comes from and what it affects. If you would like me to do it with other systems of magic in the Cosmere, I will do it. I'll only do it upon request, though; it takes a lot of time.

I hope you've enjoyed reading this as much as I've enjoyed researching it!

Links:

Hemalergy: http://coppermind.net/wiki/Hemalurgy

Allamancy: http://coppermind.net/wiki/Allomancy

Heightening: http://coppermind.net/wiki/Heightening

*Cognition is a Cognative representation of things.

*Body is a Physical representation of things.

*Spirit is a Spiritual representation of things.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Arthur Dent

[Blaze1616]

All right. I'm slowly reading this while typing my response. The first thing I want to say is this. All magic systems make use of all three realms. This can be seen in the Ars Arcanum in WoR where the writer remarks on how they are interested in Lightweaving's Spiritual and Cognitive aspects, thereby assuming that Lightweaving has Spiritual and Cognitive aspects, implying all magic does. It can also be seen in the quote you yourself used from Sazed. A very in-depth post was made by Chaos last June that delved into each magic system's relationships with the three realms. You can find that here. It is a very interesting read, and I have a feeling you'll be tackling a very similar concept.

 

Steel & Iron

It is interesting that you suggest they are mostly Physical. I would think they are instead mostly Spiritual. Think of the Lashings in SA. Kaladin can fly because he Lashes himself to objects, but what is really happening is he is altering his Spiritual connections. Gravity is a Spiritual connection of an object to the Earth. Kaladin applies a connection between himself and other objects, and as a result he "falls" towards them. Since learning that, I viewed Steel/Iron as similar. The Spiritual connection between the Allomancer and the metal they are pushing/pulling is being altered so that they repel each other. As such, the more massive of the two will not move until the less massive object comes into contact with a much more massive object. The Spiritual connection then terminates when the Allomancer stops pushing/pulling.

 

Pewter & Tin

Again, I think these rely mostly on the Spiritual Realm. This, though, has more to do with the so called Forms that Kurkistan loves so much. Find a post about them here. In my mind, when burning Pewter/Tin, the Allomancer is Spiritually altering themselves (their form) to have the increased attributes. In addition, I would say that there is no real Cognitive use here, as a Tin burner cannot choose which senses to enhance (i.e. intent has no effect). Pewter, however, may very well mostly be a Physical alteration, but I doubt that. The other possibility is that, again, it is the Spiritual connections, specifically, that are being altered.

 

Duralumin, Aluminum, Nicrosil, & Chromium

I would say these are mostly Spiritual too. Metal is to Allomancy as Aons are to AonDor. The chemical make-up of the metal acts as a doorway for the magic to pass through. Duralumin/Nicrosil seem to rip the door off it's hinges so maximum flow can occur. Aluminum/Chromium seem to close the door, lock it, and seal it with calk.

 

 

I'm going to stop there, actually. Not because your ideas are bad, but because you seem to have assumed Kurkistan's MEC theory as truth when you say things such as this:

 

-The Second Heightening:
(Perfect Pitch) grants perfect pitch to those who receive it.
Analysis:
Does this make the ear better or does it grant the cognition a better ability to intemperate truths and ideals? I don't think it has to do with the Spiritual realm because it doesn't change anything directly, just broadens the understanding of the person with the Second Heightening. Remember that the Spiritual realm is a realm of ideals, and the Cognative realm is the realm that interprets the ideals. The Physical realm is the one that applies the realms.
Tentative conclusions:
Physical- Could be this one.
Cognative- It's most likely this.
Spiritual- I really don't see it being Spiritual in nature.

Emphasis mine.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Kurk's MEC Theory is well though out, detailed, and deserves applause. It is, however, not correct. At least not entirely. We should not make additional theories based on a flawed one.

 

In regards to your work here, I think it is flawed not only because you base it on Kurk's MEC theory, but because, as I noted, they should all be based in all three realms. Each time a metal is burned, something happens Physically, Congitively, and Spiritually.

 

Breath is a bit more complicated. It is not, by itself, a magic system. Most of the Heightenings, I believe, are Spiritual alterations to the individual's Spiritual Form. Awakening, on the other hand, does dip into the three Realms; Breath & color are Spiritual, the intent of the Awakener is Cognitive, and the Command and then the actions of the Awakened Object are Physical.

 

As a last bit of notes, just somethings I noticed. At various points you wrote "Allamancy" instead of "Allomancy." I originally thought it was a typo, until it happened more than ten times, and the "a" and "o" are on opposite sides of the keyboard

 

Also it's "Cognitive," not "Cognative." And congrats on writing a "really really long post" that "took [you] three days to finish!"

[Moogle]

I regret that I don't have time to fully respond, as it would in turn take days and again I feel hesitant writing this post because of how unconfident I am in my assertions.

 

---

 

A quote or two you might want to add to your two at the top, though they aren't as nicely concise:

Jasnah held up a finger to quiet her. “All things have three components: the soul, the body, and the mind. That place you saw, Shadesmar, is what we call the Cognitive Realm— the place of the mind. “All around us you see the physical world. You can touch it, see it, hear it. This is how your physical body experiences the world. Well, Shadesmar is the way that your cognitive self— your unconscious self— experiences the world. Through your hidden senses touching that realm, you make intuitive leaps in logic and you form hopes. It is likely through those extra senses that you, Shallan, create art.”
 

“Pattern,” she said, tapping her pencil—one she’d gotten from the merchants, along with paper. “This table has four legs. Would you not say that is a truth, independent of my perspective?”

Pattern buzzed uncertainly. “What is a leg? Only as it is defined by you. Without a perspective, there is no such thing as a leg, or a table. There is only wood.”

“You’ve told me the table perceives itself this way.”

“Because people have considered it, long enough, as being a table,” Pattern said. “It becomes truth to the table because of the truth the people create for it.”

Interesting, Shallan thought, scribbling away at her notebook. She wasn’t so interested in the nature of truth at the moment, but in how Pattern perceived it.  Is this because he’s from the Cognitive Realm? The books say that the Spiritual Realm is a place of pure truth, while the Cognitive is more fluid.

 

---

 

The first question is easier to answer when you consider Hemolergy. (Hemalegic basics pasted in a link below.) When you steal a person's Allomancy, what realms are you really piercing with the Spike? Is it Cognative, Physical, or Spiritual? I find Cognative to be unlikely because it is a place of interpretations instead of power. That leaves the other two Realms.
Physical fact: The spike physically enters a person's body.
Physical speculation: The spike enters a person's body to sap away investiture.
Spiritual speculation: The spike pierces the spirit as well as the body to sap investiture.
Cognative speculation: The spike pierces the cognition* and body to sap investiture.
Realmatic speculation: it pierces all three. (This answer is frustrating to me. It seems like a cheap and easy answer.) (It is to be noted that there is a WoB sort of confirming that all investiture comes from the Spritual realm. I'm sure Moogle can find it for those of you who want it.)

 

Hemalurgy is mostly Spiritual. I wouldn't even say that it's Physical, necessarily. A few WoBs on the subject:

Master_Moridin
1. What is the relationship between blood and the Spiritual Realm? (Since Hemalurgy needs blood to graft the sDNA in a spike into someone else's sDNA)

Brandon Sanderson
The blood being in motion is part of it.
(source)

 

Chaos2651
Is there a rationale to how Hemalurgic powers are distributed? I tried to look for a system, but they seem rather randomly distributed. For example, the spike which steals Allomantic powers for a particular quadrant is not always in one particular spot.

Brandon Sanderson
That is correct, it's not always in one particular spot.  None of them are.  I used as my model on this magic system the concept of acupuncture and pressure points.  Placing a Hemalurgic spike is a very delicate and specific art.  Imagine there being a different overlay on a human body, like a new network of nerves, representing lines, points, and 'veins' of the soul's spiritual makeup.

What is happening with Hemalurgy, essentially, is that you're driving a spike through a specific point on a person's body and ripping off a piece of their soul.  It sticks to the spike on the Spiritual Realm.  Then, you place that spike on someone else in a specific place (not exactly the same place, but on the right spiritual pressure point) and 'hot wire' the spirit to give it Hemalurgy or Feruchemy.  It's like you're fooling the spiritual DNA, creating a work-around.  Or, in some cases, changing the spirit to look like something else, which has the immediate effect of distorting the body and transforming it into a new creature.

Hemalurgy is a very brutal way of making changes like this, though, so it often has monstrous effects.  (Like with the koloss.)  And in most cases, it leaves a kind of 'hole' in the spirit's natural defenses, which is how Ruin was able to touch the souls of Hemalurgists directly.
(source)

 

Keep in mind that the soul is made of Investiture, and Investiture is the basis of the cosmere/ the building blocks of the cosmere.

 

---

 

As to the 'all Investiture is in the Spiritual' idea, I don't know of any such WoB explicitly confirming it, but we have no small shortage of implications. Your Sazed quote, for example, quite solidly says it, and there's this:

 

Viper
Ok. The gemhearts/stormgems/whatever that are grown inside the beasts in Way of Kings ... is that the same as the way Atium is grown inside geodes in the Pits of Hathsin?

Brandon Sanderson
It's similar. The pits are an area where there's like a leak from the spiritual realm into the physical. That's what happens there.
(source)

 

Given atium is Investiture-made-solid, it seems like a very solid theory. (It also fits in with the speculation on how spren came to be.)

 

---

 

Onto your analysis of Allomancy: all the metals have a Cognitive component. WoB:

Allomancy’s Mental Effects

An interesting side note is to watch how Allomancy—all of its forms—enhances the mind in some way. Though the original concept for the magic system focused on different powers—some physical, some mental—the final product always had a mental component. Notice how, when burning tin, Spook is more able to focus on solitary conversations in the room. Or how his mind can filter out the mist or the cloth he wears. Burning pewter or tin will also make the mind more alert and awake. Burning atium not only lets one see a little bit into the future, but also lets one process that information in a useful way.

The mind is such a big part of what makes us who we are. I wanted Allomancy to impact the characters—to have an effect you could see on the minds of those using it. As I’ve stated, one of the places where books can outshine television or movies is in the ability to see exactly what is happening inside a character’s thoughts and emotions. By adding a mental component to each of the Allomantic powers, my hope was to play off of this strength of the written form.

(source)

 

As well, you're sort of attempting to treat Allomancy as if it should only affect one Realm, which isn't really how things work. The Ars Arcanum even mentions this for Feruchemy:
Invest that metal on one day, withdraw the power on another day. It is a well-rounded art, with some feelers in the Physical, some in the Cognitive, and even some in the Spiritual. The last powers are under heavy experimentation by the Terris community, and aren’t spoken of to outsiders.

 

As to your various analyses:
 

Steel/Iron:

Beyond the noted Cognitive effects noted, I would say they're a combination of Physical and Spiritual. Note that the Spiritual deals with connections, and when you burn steel you get a bunch of lines showing you where various bits of metal are. (My current conception of the 'spiritweb' as WoBs put it is that you're basically a tangle of threads leading to a bunch of places in the universe. Speculation, though.)

 

Manipulating these connections to metals to Push/Pull seems either Spiritual or Physical; I'm not sure which. A change in the Spiritual can result in changes in the Physical (see: koloss, eye color changes, etc.). Either way, my current speculation is that the metal seems quite Physical, but uses a Spiritual targeting system.

 

Pewter/Tin:

I'll agree with you and disagree with Blaze here. I'm not convinced these are Spiritual, they have some slight Cognitive bits with where they make you less tired, but probably Physical. I can see Blaze's argument, but it doesn't seem solid enough to me.

 

Zinc/Brass:

Mostly Cognitive to me. Wouldn't call them Spiritual.

 

Atium:

Strong, strong mental component. Just because you can see the future doesn't mean you can know how to act to stop it. Vin does a perfect block of Kelsier's attempt to hit her the first time she burns it. The Spiritual may be involved with the time shenanigans, but I don't know. Atium may just be reading the minds of everyone around you and extrapolating from their plans to how they are going to move or something. However, since it's likely operating on similar mechanics to the visions we see in the Sixth of the Dusk, I'm willing to say it's probably not that.

 

---

 

Breaths: the most important WoB we have is this (thanks Kurk!):

Kurkistan
Are flamespren, are they all doing their own thing, or is there some Ideal of "Fire" sitting in the Spiritual Realm that they're all based on?

Brandon Sanderson
Each spren is based on the Ideal of Fire.

Kurkistan
And is that sitting in the Spiritual Realm?

Brandon Sanderson
Yes, we're using sort of a Platonic Ideal, and that concept is in force, so < sounds hesitant > "yes", but [spren] are manifestations of it.

Kurkistan
So these Ideals in the Spiritual Realm: Divine Breath, does that heal by accessing some Ideal of Human Health: so a guy who had never had a tongue and doesn't know how to speak all the sudden has a tongue and can speak? [Note: Talking of Susebron here]

Brandon Sanderson
You are... < LONG pause > You are, um, on the right track.

Kurkistan
Okay...

Brandon Sanderson
Because the Breath is... eh. How can I explain this? You are, yeah... So... So each Breath is a shade of deity, right?

Kurkistan
Yeah.

Brandon Sanderson
And each Breath incorporates into it this sort of idea of being endowed by the deity Endowment, correct?

Kurkistan
Yes.

Brandon Sanderson
And so each Breath you hold brings you one step closer to becoming like that, and so what you're saying is... is "yes", kind of true, yes.

Kurkistan
But it's like within the Breath, not sitting off by itself—

Brandon Sanderson
Yes, yes yes exactly.
(source)

 

Each Breath effectively makes you one step closer to turning into a Shard. Shards exist in all three Realms. With this in mind, each Breath would seem to give you a stronger Spiritual and Cognitive presence, or perhaps the terminology would be 'bring you more into those Realms'. Lifesense is likely Investiture-sense, since Vasher can detect Syl and cannot detect Drabs. It may also have to do with you having an instinctive understanding of the connections in the Spiritual.

 

A particularly notable effect of Breaths explained in the Annotations:

Lightsong Sees the Painting of the Red Battle

This is our first major clue (though a subtle one at the same time) that there might be something to the religion of the Iridescent Tones. Lightsong does see something in this painting that an ordinary person wouldn’t be able to. A well-crafted piece of art, made by a person channeling the Tones and connected to them via Breath, can speak to a Returned. Now, in this case, it doesn’t work quite like Llarimar says it does—Lightsong doesn’t actually prophesy about the black sword in the way the priest thinks. In other words, Lightsong isn’t prophesying that he’ll see the Black Sword (Nightblood) in the day’s activities.

Instead, Lightsong is seeing an image of a previous war, which is prophetic in that another Manywar is brewing—and in both cases, Nightblood will be important to the outcome of the battle.

To continue, I go into spoilers.

The person Lightsong sees in the abstract painting is Shashara, Denth’s sister, one of the Five Scholars and a Returned also known as Glorysinger by the Cult of the Returned. She is seen here in Lightsong’s vision as she’s drawing Nightblood at the battle of Twilight Falls. It’s the only time the sword was drawn in battle, and Vasher was horrified by the result.

(source)

 

As to the general operation of Breaths, we don't know. Kurk, as usual, has the best theory so far:

 

Kurkistan
BioChroma:

Do Breaths inherently possess the ability to interpret and carry out commands, or does the Awakener need to impart that decision making ability on Awakened objects?

If the Awakener does need to impart the decision-making ability, then does Awakening consist of an Awakener copying a portion of his/her Cognitive aspect (as determined by his/her visualization and verbal Command) onto the Cognitive aspect of the object being Awakened, with Breath then providing the "juice" for the object to actually follow its Command: powering both physical motion and "cogitation" based upon the copied Cognitive aspect?

-If so, is that copying what drains color?

Brandon Sanderson
You're very close here.
(source)

 

I don't have a whole lot more to add.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Moogle

[RawToast225]

Intellect. If a great thinker develops a new theory of mathematics, science, or philosophy, we will name him wise. We will sit at his feet and learn, and will record his name in history for thousands upon thousands to revere. But what if another man determines the same theory on his own, then delays in publishing his results by a mere week? Will he be remembered for his greatness? No. He will be forgotten.

"So it's not beauty itself we admire. It's not the force of intellect. It's not the invention, aesthetics, or capacity itself. The greatest talent we think a man can have?" He plucked a final string. "Seems to me that it must be nothing more than novelty."

Wit

I am not trying to treat anything as though it only affects one realm, just identifying the realm it most interacts with. They all seem to have ties to all three realms. I did know about several of the WoB's you have shown me, but did not operate off them or look them up for reference for the sake of optimum creativity. This is raw observation. Gleen from it what you want.

I am familiar with the spirit web, but the full theory for it that Brandon is basing things off of is the Philotic Theory. I would look it up if I were you. It's pretty interesting.

Steel/Iron: I think it is Spiritual in the lines, then Cognative in deciding what to do with them. That Ars Archanum quote about gravity in WoK really changed my opinion quick. Almost. I still have to go off of my observations of the metals and I do think there is a strong physical tie in here.

Zinc/Brass: I agree that they are mostly Cognitive. It's changing the way they interpret emotions and the Cognitive realm is the one of interpretation.

Atium: I forgot about the mind enhancements Atium gives! That's an important part.

Blaze, thanks for catching the typos. I thought I caught all the Allomancy ones, but I guess I just did the last half that way. I really couldn't figure out which was the right one until I looked it up. Also, thanks for the compliment! (Side note, I didn't base it off of Kurk's theory. I haven't read it yet. I didn't know it existed. This is all from my head.)

Sorry it took so long to get back to you guys! I have a LOT going on in real life. It makes it hard to read anything. Thanks for taking the time to reply to this!

Edited February 1, 2015 by Arthur Dent

[Kurkistan]

What is this about Philotics? Is this a statement of fact (in which case I'd very much like to see the full WoB) or simply an opinion?

[RawToast225]

Ah, it's a connection I made. I'm pretty familiar with Philotic Theory and how it's used to explain connections to things and people and it just seems like the Spiritual realm is a sort of different way to explain the same concept. Sorry it didn't come out right when I said it the first time.

[Paragrin]

Is that the thing in the Ender's Game sequels?

[RawToast225]

Yup.

[Darkness]

 

Breaths: the most important WoB we have is this (thanks Kurk!):

 

Each Breath effectively makes you one step closer to turning into a Shard. Shards exist in all three Realms. With this in mind, each Breath would seem to give you a stronger Spiritual and Cognitive presence, or perhaps the terminology would be 'bring you more into those Realms'. Lifesense is likely Investiture-sense, since Vasher can detect Syl and cannot detect Drabs. It may also have to do with you having an instinctive understanding of the connections in the Spiritual.

 

Kurkistan

So these Ideals in the Spiritual Realm: Divine Breath, does that heal by accessing some Ideal of Human Health: so a guy who had never had a tongue and doesn't know how to speak all the sudden has a tongue and can speak? [Note: Talking of Susebron here]

Brandon Sanderson

You are... < LONG pause > You are, um, on the right track.

Kurkistan

Okay...

Brandon Sanderson

Because the Breath is... eh. How can I explain this? You are, yeah... So... So each Breath is a shade of deity, right?

Kurkistan

Yeah.

Brandon Sanderson

And each Breath incorporates into it this sort of idea of being endowed by the deity Endowment, correct?

Kurkistan

Yes.

Brandon Sanderson

And so each Breath you hold brings you one step closer to becoming like that, and so what you're saying is... is "yes", kind of true, yes.

Kurkistan

But it's like within the Breath, not sitting off by itself—

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, yes yes exactly.

(source)

This makes me wonder about how much divine presence Susebron exhibits with his 50,000+ Breaths. Obviously, each Breath is a different portion of Endowment's power, with Divine Breaths being the strongest (most power/Breath and highest quality), followed most likely by the Royal line (Siri, Vivenna, etc), followed by the rabble

 

Susebron not only has a Divine Breath (worth ~2000-3500 breaths), but also has a ridiculous stockpile.

 

Before I get ahead of myself, when a person/Returned dies, or when... say Nightblood burns Breath... that Breath probably returns to Endowment (I would be interested to know if the people that the Returned heal gain a portion of the Divine Breath that is used to heal them. E.g. did Susebron permanently gain a portion of Lightsong's breath when he was healed?) and so I would imagine that with all those people n Nalthis being born/getting a Breath, returning/getting a Divine Breath, dying/releasing their Breath and so on, it seems like Endowment would have to have a pretty massive stockpile to never run out (as far as we know, every person that is born has a Breath).

 

I wonder if Brandon would answer a question in regard to how many 'rabble Breath' Endowment has. A million? A billion? More? And how much Breath would it take for a person to be significantly influenced by Endowment's Intent? Is Susebron more benevolent than he would be without all his Breath (obviously he would be less benevolent because he'd be dead, but you get my point)?

 

And were the 16 Shards originally of comparable strengths, or did some of the Shards have a larger portion of Adonalsium?

 

I guess I should also consider how a typical Highstorm manages to fuel every single gemstone on Roshar, and still has investiture left to spare. If Honor and Endowment were of similar power levels, then I should probably just give up and say Endowment has an unlimited amount of Breath.

 

Note: I almost deleted this post because it's pointless... but maybe somebody will actually enjoy thinking about this too.

[WeiryWriter]

And were the 16 Shards originally of comparable strengths, or did some of the Shards have a larger portion of Adonalsium?

 

Sweetness

Just after the Shattering (but before they started created humans or something), did all Shards have roughly the same amount of raw power?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Good question.

 

(source)

[Blaze1616]

This makes me wonder about how much divine presence Susebron exhibits with his 50,000+ Breaths. Obviously, each Breath is a different portion of Endowment's power, with Divine Breaths being the strongest (most power/Breath and highest quality), followed most likely by the Royal line (Siri, Vivenna, etc), followed by the rabble

 

Susebron not only has a Divine Breath (worth ~2000-3500 breaths), but also has a ridiculous stockpile.

 

Before I get ahead of myself, when a person/Returned dies, or when... say Nightblood burns Breath... that Breath probably returns to Endowment (I would be interested to know if the people that the Returned heal gain a portion of the Divine Breath that is used to heal them. E.g. did Susebron permanently gain a portion of Lightsong's breath when he was healed?) and so I would imagine that with all those people n Nalthis being born/getting a Breath, returning/getting a Divine Breath, dying/releasing their Breath and so on, it seems like Endowment would have to have a pretty massive stockpile to never run out (as far as we know, every person that is born has a Breath).

 

I wonder if Brandon would answer a question in regard to how many 'rabble Breath' Endowment has. A million? A billion? More? And how much Breath would it take for a person to be significantly influenced by Endowment's Intent? Is Susebron more benevolent than he would be without all his Breath (obviously he would be less benevolent because he'd be dead, but you get my point)?

 

Keep in mind that the Divine Breath is a Splinter of Endowment:

 

source

Skyler

If a returned gives away his/her breath they die right? So why doesn't Vasher die after he gives his to Denth?

Brandon Sanderson

They will die the moment they run out of breath to harvest. Once a week their body needs a breath in order to survive. Each Returned has one single superpowered breath. Imagine it as one breath that propels them up through the Heightenings, but it is only a single breath. It's what we speak of in Shard world terminology as a Splinter. And when the seventh day comes, if a Returned does not have another breath for his body to consume to keep him alive, his body will actually eat his divine breath and kill him. So they don't die immediately after they get rid of the breath, they're sort of put into a state of limbo where if they don't find more breath by the time that their feast day comes, then they will die. (Vasher did not give his Returned breath to Denth, just a number of normal breaths.)

 

 

Now, think of other Splinters we know, how about Spren. Think of the sheer number of Spren there are on Roshar. Breaths are approximately 1/2000th of those Splinters, given the raw power splits evenly (which Weiry's WoB above is some evidence that it does). So, even given that there are probably Spren from four different Shards on Roshar, the sheer number of them implies Endowment has way, way, way more Breaths and Divine Breaths to give. Even with exponential population growth, I'm sure there is plenty to go around for everyone.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Blaze1616